BF2S Forums DAST Chat

Shahter I think you need to understand what plausible deniability means and how it relates to your stance here. On the surface the position that there should be irrefutable evidence before we point fingers is a good one, even if you do simultaneously peddle nonsensical explanations for what happened. Ultimately though, it is very unlikely absolutely hard evidence will ever be gathered or be publicly presented and that any conjecture can be fully eliminated from the argument implicating who did it. These sorts of crimes are committed by entities that have a very high degree of secrecy surrounding their movements and, in some countries, these entities literally operate outside the rule of law answering only to select political leadership.

In practice I only know of two countries possibly involved in this mess whose intelligence services behave like cowboys, who would wantonly poison their opponents and who may actively deploy this family of nerve agents: the United States and Russia. Fact is I see absolutely NO conceivable reason Skripal would be eliminated by the americans, and I also see no reason whatsoever for them to poison Navalny. There are however plenty motives for the Russians AND an established history of using rather scary means to dispose of political opponents and turned double agents.

Now back to plausible deniability. You reserving judgment (perhaps out of some misguided good faith) allows these actors to literally get away with murder. In the case of Russia, they're allowed to strip bear whatever farcical democracy you have and impose Putin's rule in perpetuity as there seems to be no way you will ever truly turn on them. I expect your loyalty to your russian identity will even have you side with them and their narrative in the case of any western repercussions. After all, how can those hypocrit westerners punish Russia / how can they punish without proof? In other words, you're a useful fool.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-09-19 10:11:58)

Probably the point is that it sends the message that Putin can kill anyone anywhere and no-one is going to do anything about it.

A bullet in the back can be from anyone, Novichok can only be on Putin's say so.

uziq wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-54238170

very cool video.

"Cameroon soldiers jailed for killing women and children"

?

Let's just cut to the chase: What religion were the killers and the victims?

Fantastic journalism but some narrative jabs don't sit well with me. Of course the perpetrators needed to be punished and got what they deserved, without question. But that place seemed devoid of any infrastructure beyond the most basic nevermind a functioning legal system. Far away from government control, in an area where borders are but lines on a map, where militant organisations do as they wish and where most people have trouble finding food for the day. It's an insight into what life is like for a too large part of humanity: brutal. It's not uncommon in places like these for local punishments to be a barbaric affair, just that the particular idiots who did this gleefully filmed their own despicable crime.

That is to say an unbelievable amount of development has to take place before any semblance of centralised authority, rule of law and fair trials can reach the Sahel. IF it can be done. A one off victory parade over the meting out of easy justice seems hollow in that environment. While I can see the example is used to pressure the government into controlling its forces, will they? Chances are the rogue soldiers now know not to film, and no one will be the wiser the next time.

If it were Muslims executing Christians women and children, white people in Europe wouldn't care because they don't want to offend Muslims.

And you never went to Africa.

And I have been outside of New Jersey. Have you been to Cameroon?

I am just saying there might be some context we are missing and need to hear the soldiers side of the story.

The soldiers are black men facing down a unfair justice system. Why do you want to hear the sides of story from black guys shot by police but don't want to give these guys a fair chance to clear their names? Don't Black Lives Matter or do you just hate the police?

What do you think of the Muslim herdsmen in Africa that kill settled farmers? Mostly Christian farmers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herder%E2 … in_Nigeria

Have you ever even heard of it? Where is the international outcry over that? Oh wait the international outcry is against the Christians who defend themselves.

Why don't you want these men to get a fair trial?