Announcement

Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/nf43FxS
Discuss.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX
Fairly unlikely, and the price of food would double or triple.

Is this guy going to drop $100k on a Tesla tractor compared with a few $k on a used Massey Ferguson? Probably not - he's going to continue burning diesel.
https://www.fairobserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Farmer-suicides-Indian-farmers-Indian-news-India-1.jpg

The cost of moving gas compared with the embodied energy is fairly trivial.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-10-26 15:24:31)

Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+362|2411
Plastic bag ban is going into effect soon in my city. I have been doing research and there is evidence it will hurt more than help. People reuse their small plastic bags for lining garbage cans, picking up dog waste, and other stuff. Everytime a plastic bag ban went into effect, people just started buying heavy duty black garbage bags. When you walk your dog should you just take even more paper towels to create a big paper poop ball since you are out of bags?
Larssen
Member
+30|579

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Could we make the harvesters electric and the power grid powered by green energy? You would probably save a lot of energy by no longer needing to move around gas from place to place.
It could be done but the investment required would be enormous. Especially in developing countries, where distances are also greater which means energy loss due to resistance (you still need to move power from place to place). The power generation wouldn't just need to be converted, the grid also modernised and significantly expanded.

These countries usually aren't able to source the necessary skills to do any of this. Moreover, building sustainable energy sources can be quite expensive and their investment return is only far in the future (if at all).

Without trillions in well-spent subsidies the rest of the world will significantly lag behind the West in their transition.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX
India and China are building hundreds of coal fired plants, whatever we do the planet is fucked.
If the west went zero carbon tomorrow it would make almost no difference, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it of course, Australia could supply half of Asia with solar power for a start.

The only solution is to reduce demand by cutting the population. I can see China nuking India just for that.
Or at least putting a cap on population.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Plastic bag ban is going into effect soon in my city. I have been doing research and there is evidence it will hurt more than help. People reuse their small plastic bags for lining garbage cans, picking up dog waste, and other stuff. Everytime a plastic bag ban went into effect, people just started buying heavy duty black garbage bags. When you walk your dog should you just take even more paper towels to create a big paper poop ball since you are out of bags?
Its a drop in the ocean and as you say achieves virtually nothing. More hydrocarbons are burned driving to the shops than in producing plastic bags, as long as they make it to landfill they're not a problem.
Epstein didn't kill himself
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,865|5324|949

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Plastic bag ban is going into effect soon in my city. I have been doing research and there is evidence it will hurt more than help. People reuse their small plastic bags for lining garbage cans, picking up dog waste, and other stuff. Everytime a plastic bag ban went into effect, people just started buying heavy duty black garbage bags. When you walk your dog should you just take even more paper towels to create a big paper poop ball since you are out of bags?
Its a drop in the ocean and as you say achieves virtually nothing. More hydrocarbons are burned driving to the shops than in producing plastic bags, as long as they make it to landfill they're not a problem.
Plastic bag bans are evidence that the people are open to change and willing to adjust their lifestyle in order to better protect the environment. Unfortunately as most are aware, the overwhelming majority of carbon emissions are the result of industry, most notably fossil fuels. Plastic bag bans are backed by these industries because they'd rather put it on the consumer to make small sacrifices than address the root cause. It also gets people like Jay frothing at the mouth about stupid citizens and mindless legislation, which shifts the focus and responsibility, allowing the debate to be about what we as consumers can do instead of what actions need to take place at the root of the problem.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX
Yes, consumers are willing to give up their plastic bags and instead put their corn-fed steaks and air-freighted fruit and vegetables in a self-knitting hemp bag.
Plastic bags are literally the smallest problem.
Epstein didn't kill himself
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,865|5324|949

The "locally sourced" movement is being led by those hated hipster enclaves of Park Slope and Portland and Williamsburg and Silverlake.

You're the type to complain about hipsters spending $7 on avocado toast (sourced locally and sustainably) while out of the other side of your mouth loathing the global food supply chain.

Shut up.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX
I'm not griping about local sourcing or hipsters, I'm griping about the person who drives to the out of town supermarket in their X5 to buy airfreighted cherries - but its OK because they didn't use a plastic bag.

My sister thinks she's an eco-warrior because while she drives her 4x4 to pilates-in-a-sauna classes she forgoes the straw for her peach juice.

Its a red-herring and lets people feel good about not doing anything else.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-12-20 18:19:54)

Epstein didn't kill himself
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5463|USA

I like reusable bags because they don't tear on me. Also, plastic bags or pieces of them are a common sight in litter, which wouldn't bother me an iota to see less of. Not sure why people would especially need heavy duty bags to replace them when you can still buy the thin ones for a lot less. Maybe a happy medium is just charging for bags, provided the money goes to good causes.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5463|USA

SpaceX streaming stuff:

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+362|2411
Bayer, the world’s largest seed and pesticide maker, has agreed to pay more than $10 billion to settle tens of thousands of claims in the United States that its popular weedkiller Roundup causes cancer, the company said Wednesday.

The figure includes $1.25 billion to deal with potential future claims from people who used Roundup and may develop the form of cancer known as non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in the years to come.
They definitely made more than 10 billion on their weedkiller over the last 50 years. Still what a settlement. From what I understand the cancer is linked to people who work with the stuff professionally.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,743|5384
GMnO
x
What bloody man is that? NOT MACBETH
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+741|5376|United States of America
That appositive was news to me. Apparently they bought Monsanto in 2018. Isn't that always the case with these sorts of things though? Companies rarely have to forego any sizable amount of ill-gotten gains.
uziq
Member
+303|2144
https://www.ft.com/content/f87d9c5e-51b … pe=nongift

this report on the failures of boeing/FAA is pretty staggering.

do engineers have no consciences? i think every large corporation should have religious instruction once per week.

Boeing hid design flaws in its 737 Max jet from both pilots and regulators as it raced to have the aeroplane certified as fit to fly, according to a damning congressional report into why two of the aircraft crashed within months of each other last year, killing 346 people.

The report by the US House of Representatives transport committee found the US aircraft maker cut corners and pressured regulators to overlook aspects of its new design in its attempts to catch up with European rival Airbus. It also accused US regulators of being too concerned with pleasing the company to exercise proper oversight.

The report said: “[The two crashes] were the horrific culmination of a series of faulty technical assumptions by Boeing’s engineers, a lack of transparency on the part of Boeing’s management, and grossly insufficient oversight by the [Federal Aviation Administration] — the pernicious result of regulatory capture on the part of the FAA with respect to its responsibilities to perform robust oversight of Boeing and to ensure the safety of the flying public.

“The facts laid out in this report document a disturbing pattern of technical miscalculations and troubling management misjudgments made by Boeing. It also illuminates numerous oversight lapses and accountability gaps by the FAA that played a significant role in the 737 Max crashes.”

Last edited by uziq (2020-09-16 04:13:17)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX
Pretty well exclusively management failures, as these things usually are.

But yeah obviously management problems at engineering companies tend to be more fatal than at publishing houses, which is why they usually hold themselves and are held to higher standards. There's no Federal Book-Worthiness Code or teams of inspectors to enforce it for example.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-09-16 05:01:08)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+303|2144
do you want some sort of award because aviation engineers deal with higher-stakes than book publishers? well done, you have a special industry code ('you' being a vague term for engineers in general; i don't recall you doing anything so crucial) because cutting corners kills hundreds of people. i like working in the culture industry where the stakes are amiable and everyone more or less enjoys their jobs, dipshit. very strange humble brag.

and the report specifically mentions engineers cutting corners. nobody held a gun held to their head over these things. and, even if they did, you'd think that an engineer with an overbearing manager would whistleblow or, er, quit ... considering hundreds of peoples' lives are at risk. what a noble race! blameless, as ever.

junior engineers at theranos, for e.g., in the medical-diagnostics field eventually blew the whistle on their bullshit technology, because it was risking harm to people's lives. and theranos had an extremely aggressive confidentiality clause/legal team going after anyone who so much as peeped disagreement/skepticism.

but no, enGineEriNg mAstEr raCe can't possibly do anything wrong. i bet all the managers at boeing have history and literature degrees and went to princeton and yale!!!

Last edited by uziq (2020-09-16 05:12:02)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX
Every engineering decision is a calculated risk, unlike selecting a font or whatever, cars kill people, aeroplanes kill people, there is no perfectly safe car or aeroplane.

I used to work on fuel tanks and fuel systems, its a certainty that decisions I've been involved in taking have killed at least one person.
Could the fuel tank have been a mm thicker? How many lives would have been saved by adding 200g to the car? Should we have done that and increased the cost and fuel consumption which would have meant people would have died in Hyundais instead?
Two of my colleagues couldn't deal with it and had total mental breakdowns.

No-one has a gun held to their head, commercial and engineering realities are what do it, in most cases there is no major negligence and no whistle to blow. In the case of Boeing the regulator was in on it so nothing would have been achieved. Whats an engineer to do then?

"The chief engineer advised a safety factor of 2.05 on von Mises stress intensity including the geometry factor and derating for long-cycle fatigue for an aluminium 6061-T6 component in a mildly corrosive environment was adequate for the expected lifecycle and inspection regime when my team felt 2.07 was more appropriate - wait until the New York Times hears about this"

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-09-16 06:51:29)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+303|2144
i'm sure engineering is the only profession where people have mental breakdowns due to work-related stress. you practically deserve your own suite of medals, a hall of fame, plaques and statues ... ffs get over yourself, you're not special forces, you're an egghead working to a spec.

i'm quite sure a congressional report wouldn't place blame on engineering decisions if a management culture were entirely to blame. why can you only view engineers in a valorized way? you're worse than people who want to regard all military vets as heroes. at least they actually require balls.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5463|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

No-one has a gun held to their head, commercial and engineering realities are what do it, in most cases there is no major negligence and no whistle to blow. In the case of Boeing the regulator was in on it so nothing would have been achieved. Whats an engineer to do then?

"The chief engineer advised a safety factor of 2.05 on von Mises stress intensity including the geometry factor and derating for long-cycle fatigue for an aluminium 6061-T6 component in a mildly corrosive environment was adequate for the expected lifecycle and inspection regime when my team felt 2.07 was more appropriate - wait until the New York Times hears about this"
Maybe the tech journalist with the "useless" humanities degree could find a way to write engineering concerns a way that makes more sense to a lay reader if that is the target audience. Like they do all the time.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i'm sure engineering is the only profession where people have mental breakdowns due to work-related stress. you practically deserve your own suite of medals, a hall of fame, plaques and statues ... ffs get over yourself, you're not special forces, you're an egghead working to a spec.

i'm quite sure a congressional report wouldn't place blame on engineering decisions if a management culture were entirely to blame. why can you only view engineers in a valorized way? you're worse than people who want to regard all military vets as heroes. at least they actually require balls.
Its an engineering company, management decisions are engineering decisions, dur.
I don't think you really know what engineers do.

Some medals would be nice, but if my smallest achievement were to take 3,000 tons of vehicle off the road I don't think that would be bad for just one years work.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+303|2144
'i don't think you know what [x] does' is a rubric that could be applied to you almost every day. it has never stopped you pontificating, has it?

engineers were explicitly criticised for engineering decisions, too bad. of course management and the overall business imperative was the driving factor. what sort of fucking point is that? you can't shift the blame solely to people with MBAs. again, there are no guns pointed at heads, here. teams have resigned or ex-workers blown whistles for much less. in this case an evidently terrible company culture led to the deaths of 400 people. if engineers are such an enlightened master-brain species i'm sure a few of them could have inferred at the time of their cutting-corners that they were ultimately endangering lives.

you going on about people having breakdowns because of the high-stakes of their jobs is just the usual film-flam. nurses, doctors, surgeons don't have the same special pleading as an engineer sat in an air-conditioned office on a CAD programme. you seem to think you're one of the great unheralded heroes of the fucking age because engineers 'make things'. fucking hell. i suppose the bricklayers and scaffolders and HVAC technicians of the world are all taking pills and losing sleep, as well. what if that damn riveting wasn't done properly ...? OMG! get a fucking grip.

Last edited by uziq (2020-09-17 16:56:40)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

you seem to think you're one of the great unheralded heroes of the fucking age because engineers 'make things'.
Yes, yes I do, very much.

Bricklayers nurses etc work to guidelines they've been spoon-fed. As long as they plod away they have no liability at all.

Making new things carries a lot of risk. Developing a novel control system for a new aircraft is a whole lot harder and riskier than laying a patio or taking a pulse.

There were obvious cultural problems at Boeing, also maybe don't outsource critical work to Indians.
https://www.i-programmer.info/news/149- … cized.html
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+303|2144
they are still front-of-line where their actions can lead to disastrous consequences, loss of life, accidents, etc. they're not all having mental breakdowns because of the pressure of it all. why do engineers make out their job is consistently the most terrible and arduous ever? you soft twat.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4798|eXtreme to the maX
Meanwhile you've never really taken a significant decision of any kind or cared about the consequences of your actions on other people.

How many people are languishing in third-world prisons having failed to deliver the drugs you've ordered?

What happens when someone is driving along, drifts off thinking about a paragraph in one of the books you've published, wanders over the median line and wipes out a family going to a picnic?

Maybe you should consider increasing the dullness of your tomes, think of the children.
Epstein didn't kill himself

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2020 Jeff Minard