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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4825|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

capital is now hugely more profitable than labour, which is leading to the greatest levels of inequality in western society since the time of the robber barons. jay, who is still a labourer, continually speaks out on behalf of the capitalists' right to suddenly become $30 billion richer in a week because of covid-19 and government bailouts.
Have you not noticed the stock market over the past 11 years?

2019    31.10%    $4,510.10
2018    -4.41%    $3,440.19
2017    21.94%    $3,598.91
2016    11.93%    $2,951.38
2015    1.31%    $2,636.80
2014    13.81%    $2,602.71
2013    32.43%    $2,286.89
2012    15.88%    $1,726.87
2011    2.07%    $1,490.22
2010    14.87%    $1,460.00
2009    27.10%    $1,271.00
        $1,000

If you had started with $1000 going into 2009 your wealth would've increased 451% over 11 years if you had invested it. This conspiracy theory stuff really is amazing!
Yes but what about bitcoins? Shouldn't everyone on wall street have plugged their playstation into the internet and made bitcoins?

The US stock market is thoroughly disconnected from reality, great if you invested at the right time, otherwise its due for a 50-75% drop.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+326|2171
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbteULmXsAACSvX?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbteULhX0AEllGM?format=jpg&name=medium

if only those idiots had invested in stocks and had compound interest !
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439
Nearly half number will be dismissed due to a lot of it being old people and minors. But still labor participation is low. I am "unimaginably stupid" when I suggested we use our fake money to put people to work building stuff.
uziq
Member
+326|2171
is it just possible that jay was against the bailout in 2008 because he had relatively little, and now he's on the property ladder and is making investments, he is pro bailout now in 2020? make u think

how many more workers could *checks notes* reach escape velocity using the stock market and compound interest on their investments if they had a fairer distribution of their companies' earnings/better recompense for their labour? currently executive salaries are 250x average worker salaries. maybe the middle-class could achieve a more robust defense against economic shocks if they had a share of the pie and weren't all worrying about their next mortgage payment?

wasn't an over-exposure to the stock market for average workers one of the reasons the great depression wiped out so many people?

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-30 04:29:37)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4825|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Nearly half number will be dismissed due to a lot of it being old people and minors. But still labor participation is low. I am "unimaginably stupid" when I suggested we use our fake money to put people to work building stuff.
Its funny how 'conservatives' moan about giving people money to do nothing but are fine with giving handouts to corporations to do less.

Here handouts to companies have generally been linked to keeping people in a job.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4077|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

capital is now hugely more profitable than labour, which is leading to the greatest levels of inequality in western society since the time of the robber barons. jay, who is still a labourer, continually speaks out on behalf of the capitalists' right to suddenly become $30 billion richer in a week because of covid-19 and government bailouts.
Have you not noticed the stock market over the past 11 years?

2019    31.10%    $4,510.10
2018    -4.41%    $3,440.19
2017    21.94%    $3,598.91
2016    11.93%    $2,951.38
2015    1.31%    $2,636.80
2014    13.81%    $2,602.71
2013    32.43%    $2,286.89
2012    15.88%    $1,726.87
2011    2.07%    $1,490.22
2010    14.87%    $1,460.00
2009    27.10%    $1,271.00
        $1,000

If you had started with $1000 going into 2009 your wealth would've increased 451% over 11 years if you had invested it. This conspiracy theory stuff really is amazing!
Yes but what about bitcoins? Shouldn't everyone on wall street have plugged their playstation into the internet and made bitcoins?

The US stock market is thoroughly disconnected from reality, great if you invested at the right time, otherwise its due for a 50-75% drop.
It is disconnected somewhat, yes. Price increases are mostly driven by continuous investment by individuals in retirement funds. Individual stocks still fluctuate based on performance. Does Tesla deserve to trade at over $1,000/share when it likely will never make a profit? I would say no. By the same token, why is gold trading at $1,780? Value is based on scarcity, continuous purchases and hype.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4077|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Nearly half number will be dismissed due to a lot of it being old people and minors. But still labor participation is low. I am "unimaginably stupid" when I suggested we use our fake money to put people to work building stuff.
It's not fake money. The fastest way to destroy our economy would be to print too much money, cause us to lose our reserve currency status, and lead to hyperinflation. I would prefer to not live through the Weimar Republic or Venezuela. You might enjoy watching people kill rats for food and selling their children into sex slavery for toilet paler, but I'll pass.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439
The US unemployment rate fell to 11.1% as the economy added a record 4.8 million jobs in June, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Thursday.

The data was far better than economists predicted. The unemployment rate also fell more than expected.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/economy/ … index.html
Trump did it. The economy is saved.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,702|4825|eXtreme to the maX
I've made my bets on a stock market drop from August onwards, not totally divested of shares but trimmed my holding a fair bit.

When the July 4 blip comes through and stimulus spending starts to dry up I think it will all go very backwards.

The wildcard is a vaccine, if its even possible I doubt there'll be an effective one this year, could be wildly wrong obviously.
Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439
A 2 bedroom 2 bath unit in a HOA in my town was listed for $400,000 on the NYT real estate section. The payment calculator had a down payment of $85,000. Who the hell has that type of money lying around?
uziq
Member
+326|2171
first-time deposits are typically 15% here but a lot of people put down 50%+.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439
I know how mortgage down payments work. But just seeing the amount spelled out is eye watering. You need to save a tremendous amount of money just to have the opportunity to get locked into more debt.

The issue might not even be the concept of debt but the fact that you are paying $200,000 per bed room.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,873|5351|949

It's because you used the payment calculator to estimate the monthly payment you want or can afford instead of using a standard 3%/5%/10%/20% down and figuring out the monthly payment from there. You want a mortgage payment of around $1500/month, right?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439
I'm not buying a home. Whatever was there was the default settings. $450 a month HOA fee too by the way.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4077|London, England
$1500/month will barely cover the property taxes in New Jersey.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,752|5412
Buying a house... is it really an investment? Unless you’re renting rooms or conducting a business from it isn’t it just another liability?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4077|London, England
It's a poor investment.

Edit - it's a poor investment with a mortgage. Can be great if you buy outright with cash.

Last edited by Jay (2020-07-07 17:43:12)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+744|5404|United States of America
I've been saving money since I started working and have an appreciably large amount if I were in the market for buying a house. It does cause me anxiety to have the thought of putting a sizable chunk of that down and then committing to decades of payment on it. Whenever I hit a new milestone at say a $10,000 increment, that became a new floor of safety at which I was comfortable. For shits and giggles I was recently looking at what it would cost if I wanted a nicer car for my next one, and I cannot fathom how people buy some vehicles. My first payment was absurdly low, which has anchored my perceptions near there and I cannot fathom paying the average US car payment of $400+/mo.

Mo money, mo problems.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,752|5412
My plan is to save for a plot of land and build my own house. Probably start a food production business on the land along with a food forest. Thinking a gourmet mushroom grow op along with possibly an Ume orchard and selling American made umeboshi. Also possibly a culinary institute and or hospice on the property. /dreams
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439

Superior Mind wrote:

My plan is to save for a plot of land and build my own house. Probably start a food production business on the land along with a food forest. Thinking a gourmet mushroom grow op along with possibly an Ume orchard and selling American made umeboshi. Also possibly a culinary institute and or hospice on the property. /dreams
Ken wants to start a farm. You two should trade Linkedins.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,873|5351|949

great minds think alike.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439
My god mother is childless and owns a house in Florida. She left the home to me. It has a good amount of land attached to it. Hopefully marijuana is legalized and I can build a greenhouse on it someday.
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/greenhouse.jpg
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,752|5412
Respek
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,678|5456|Oxferd
Will it be underwater in 10 years?
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+381|2439
checks map.

Yeah, its fucked. Never mind.

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