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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+567|3057
Something also more interesting: the federal police don't look into your background as much as this local police department does. I mean for the feds, you had to fill out paper work and submit your prints to the FBI database but the local police makes you do all of that and assigns you a detective that interviews employers, friends, family, and neighbors to determine if you would make a suitable cop. And while this does seem like a more thorough background investigation, I suspect it is also a good way to collect information to justify rejecting you. Do you think the son of a cop will get put through that much hassle or do you think it would be the random person trying to get in? They did manage to scare me away when they said they would alert my employer as me to trying to leave.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+466|2789
that's always a sensitive topic, in any career. there comes a point when your current employer and a prospective/future employer have to communicate. it's up to you to tell your current employers first.

it's extremely rare in any 'proper' career, requiring qualifications/degree/extensive applications etc. for them to offer you a job without background checks and employer cross-referencing. realistically you're not going to be able to go into school one day and say, 'i have some news! i'm leaving to become a cop!'

the same thing happens in my industry, which is a very small and insular world. everyone knows when positions or posts open at house x, and house y will gossip about it. people taking holidays at short notice are clearly going for interviews, etc. everyone talks.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

anyone can be racist, and the law exists for everyone. i cannot say with an honest heart that i’ve ever been abused, disadvantaged or humiliated because of my race. nobody has ever hurled invective at me, threatened me, or belittled me because i’m white. have you suffered this? if so, why didn’t you report it to the police? they are noticeably on your side in these matters.
As a white person living in a white country I wouldn't really expect to.

However I have suffered egregious micro-aggressions over the years, ethnic minorities looking at me funny when I'm the only white person on a bus or tube, turks in North London telling me "you're not from round these parts are yer", people making fun of my - traceable back the the Normans - surname etc etc etc.

Its not acceptable and it has to stop.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I gave up on the whole cop process and will still do teaching. This is going to be a long post but it is worth it if you care about policing.
Simple answer: If you have no career or future then joining the police or military may be the best choice out of none, giving up an existing career for less certainty probably doesn't make much sense.
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uziq
Member
+466|2789

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

anyone can be racist, and the law exists for everyone. i cannot say with an honest heart that i’ve ever been abused, disadvantaged or humiliated because of my race. nobody has ever hurled invective at me, threatened me, or belittled me because i’m white. have you suffered this? if so, why didn’t you report it to the police? they are noticeably on your side in these matters.
As a white person living in a white country I wouldn't really expect to.

However I have suffered egregious micro-aggressions over the years, ethnic minorities looking at me funny when I'm the only white person on a bus or tube, turks in North London telling me "you're not from round these parts are yer", people making fun of my - traceable back the the Normans - surname etc etc etc.

Its not acceptable and it has to stop.
having grown up with a norman surname on my mum's side of the family, i can confidently say you are full of shit.

i've never heard another white brit comment on it for being 'funny', let alone a turk or anyone else. lmao wtf.

what a terrible pity! such suffering you've had to endure! people looking at you on the bus funny! surely the blacks, getting summarily executed by police, are really special pleading! why are they so special?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
The question wasn't about being summarily executed, it was about being "abused, disadvantaged or humiliated"
As usual, reductio ad derpziquam
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uziq
Member
+466|2789
so the worst abuse you've suffered is someone double-taking your surname. righty-ho. i think we can safely file this one away.

and the whole point, rather, is that racial abuse and discrimination is more than just Hurt Feelings. it's the tip of an iceberg in which society is constantly handing you the shit hand. did your norman surname ever stop you from getting accepted to a school? getting a job?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
So we've established:

When a white person has their feelings hurt they just need to put it aside and get on with their lives.

When a black person has their feelings hurt we need to pander to them because slavery.
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HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|5335

uziq wrote:

you’re acting like the legal proof of reasonability is on a level with divine judgment, some sort of infallible and immutable law. i don’t think you have to look very far into jurisprudential discourse or sociology to see that the justice system is inherently, systemically stacked against certain peoples.
I don't expect any officer to consider the sociological implications of race inequity in the justice system when deciding what to do when someone aims a weapon at them and discharges it.  It's idiotic to expect that.  If that's not what you're suggesting, I don't know why you choose to raise the point.

again, why are african americans the victims of over 2x as many police killings as whites? why are blacks disproportionately jailed for crimes which whites aren’t? why is your prison population overwhelmingly black in comparison to their proportion of total population?
None of these questions are relevant to the use of force under discussion.

you’re down in the literalist argument of proving their reasonability without considering who wields these standards, who possesses these proofs, and in which institutional and sociological contexts are they used?
Of course.  Because that's how these things are supposed to be analyzed.

i see two dipshit police officers who have shot a second member of the public, after they were dishonest over and plainly culpable for the first incident. i say enough of that shit. these goons are being entrusted with people’s lives, not the office pencil sharpener. i would lose my job over a much lesser incident than putting someone in an ICU. it is fucking ridiculous.
For all your talk, there's one huge thing missing: what is unreasonable about reacting with deadly force to a violent person who turns at a pursuing officer, aims a weapon at him, and discharges it with a pop and a flash?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

So we've established:

When a white person has their feelings hurt they just need to put it aside and get on with their lives.

When a black person has their feelings hurt we need to pander to them because slavery.
Someone making fun of your name in gradeschool or whatever (talk about fwp) is probably not on the same level as enduring a lifetime thrum of varying levels of scrutiny, suspicion, derision, and profiling.

Honestly this doesn't seem like a valid double standard to complain about.

Did three cops get in trouble recently for banter about how they were going to go kill all the people with Norman names?
HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|5335

SuperJail Warden wrote:

This is where I failed the federal police hiring process. The polygraph examination for Border Protection I took resulted in the polygraph guy accusing me of lying and failing the entire process then and there. So much work just for one guy and his machine to say no.
I know many people who have taken the CBP poly.  It's totally insane.  One person had to do it over the course of two days.  No other agency does garbage like this.  The Secret Service doesn't even put their applicants through such "rigorous" polys.  I've heard of people coming from military intel units who fail it.  What usually happens, though, is the exam is "inconclusive" and they won't pass you with it, but they won't fail you, either.  They just give you the "opportunity" to take the poly again, and most people tell them where they can shove it.

probably a bit of bullying and hazing because pig men and all.
:rolleyes

With this attitude and these assumptions of your potential future colleagues, it's a good thing you quit the process.  Were I your partner, I wouldn't trust you to roll down your window before you rip ass, let alone save my life.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Something also more interesting: the federal police don't look into your background as much as this local police department does. I mean for the feds, you had to fill out paper work and submit your prints to the FBI database but the local police makes you do all of that and assigns you a detective that interviews employers, friends, family, and neighbors to determine if you would make a suitable cop.
Feds do this also.  SF-89 asks for all this information.  And they use it.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

It's incredible to me that polygraphs are still employed in 2020. Why not also use Ouija, Tarot, palm reading, astrology, etc. while we're at it. Graduation into a federal force could involve hanging by your nipples in a dusty cave or some other primitive ritual.
HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|5335
I do recall hearing a story from an ATF buddy of mine that his hiring process involved chicken entrails.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+567|3057
In fairness to the polygraph it did weed me out of the system. That machine deserves a medal.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|5335

SuperJail Warden wrote:

In fairness to the polygraph it did weed me out of the system. That machine deserves a medal.
I would agree.  They are lucky to have dodged your bullet.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+567|3057
A mass shooting at a Kentucky protest. 1 dead a bunch injured.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

HollisHurlbut wrote:

They are lucky to have dodged your bullet.
LMAO
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

He was going to be a K-9 officer, so they dodged his dog.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

In fairness to the polygraph it did weed me out of the system. That machine deserves a medal.
Lets face it its basically a whiteness test.
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+567|3057
The machine did its job then. I won't question its service. It deserves free college.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+466|2789

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So we've established:

When a white person has their feelings hurt they just need to put it aside and get on with their lives.

When a black person has their feelings hurt we need to pander to them because slavery.
Someone making fun of your name in gradeschool or whatever (talk about fwp) is probably not on the same level as enduring a lifetime thrum of varying levels of scrutiny, suspicion, derision, and profiling.

Honestly this doesn't seem like a valid double standard to complain about.

Did three cops get in trouble recently for banter about how they were going to go kill all the people with Norman names?
https://twitter.com/DARollins/status/12 … 88483?s=20

lol.

i think it says it all when dilbert’s entire experience and concept of racism is ‘people being nasty to me’. i’m sorry but actual racism involves a little bit more than growing a thick skin.

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-28 01:20:42)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
Most people's experience of racism is ‘people being nasty’ or finding racism in banter or - nothing at all.

Someone put out a plate of crackers at the monthly drinks, ZOMG for white people thats like tying a garage pull-cord into a handy loop is for black people.
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uziq
Member
+466|2789

Dilbert_X wrote:

Most people's experience of racism is ‘people being nasty’ or finding racism in banter or - nothing at all.

Someone put out a plate of crackers at the monthly drinks, ZOMG for white people thats like tying a garage pull-cord into a handy loop is for black people.
speak for yourself, dilbert.

so, to clarify, you claim that you have an equal experience of racism because someone made fun of your surname and someone else joked that you were lost when wandering through a neighbourhood with a local ethnic community. wow! you really know racism!

has anyone ever crossed the street to the other side of the road when you're walking around? maybe, maybe.

has anyone ever called the police on you because you're in their neighbourhood, and they're immediately suspicious and feel threatened? or because they know that the mere suggestion of calling the police is in-itself a veiled threat to a black person? 'i'll call the local white police on you if you interrupt me any more!'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … irdwatcher

how about ... has anyone ever stopped and questioned you, and threatened to call the police on you, when you're in your own neighbourhood, outside your own house, because they are skeptical that you could even possibly live in such a respectable area? has anyone ever demanded that you leave your own building, and followed you around insisting that you leave 'their' area?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/us/h … louis.html
https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/13/karen-ma … -12848700/

assuming people have called the police on you for simply being in the 'wrong' area, have you then ever got into an altercation with a police officer? have you ever feared for your life when talking to a police officer? have you ever feared wrongful imprisonment? being forcibly restrained? killed? somehow i sincerely doubt you've ever had to confront this sort of fear or anxiety.

have you ever been pursued and chased down by people carrying guns, intent on performing a 'citizen's arrest', simply because you're out for a jog in their neighbourhood?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52764898

i'll assume, because you're here filling up this board with your piffle, that you haven't been murdered by local hicks (and ex-cops, natch) whilst out jogging.

tell me more about how you know about racism, and it's 'mostly just banter'.

you know, dilbert, and i mean this quite sincerely, once in a while you should really actually shut the fuck up and try listening to someone else's experiences. you file everything away in your own little 'culture war' contraptions, you have an answer and retort to everything, and you look like a very, very silly man. shut up and learn something.

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-28 02:44:17)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

Dilbert_X wrote:

The question wasn't about being summarily executed, it was about being "abused, disadvantaged or humiliated"
As usual, reductio ad derpziquam
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Most people's experience of racism is ‘people being nasty’ or finding racism in banter or - nothing at all.

Someone put out a plate of crackers at the monthly drinks, ZOMG for white people thats like tying a garage pull-cord into a handy loop is for black people.
speak for yourself, dilbert.

so, to clarify, you claim that you have an equal experience of racism because someone made fun of your surname and someone else joked that you were lost when wandering through a neighbourhood with a local ethnic community. wow! you really know racism!

has anyone ever crossed the street to the other side of the road when you're walking around? maybe, maybe.

has anyone ever called the police on you because you're in their neighbourhood, and they're immediately suspicious and feel threatened? or because they know that the mere suggestion of calling the police is in-itself a veiled threat to a black person? 'i'll call the local white police on you if you interrupt me any more!'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … irdwatcher

how about ... has anyone ever stopped and questioned you, and threatened to call the police on you, when you're in your own neighbourhood, outside your own house, because they are skeptical that you could even possibly live in such a respectable area? has anyone ever demanded that you leave your own building, and followed you around insisting that you leave 'their' area?

Or Tower Hamlets late at night?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/us/h … louis.html
https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/13/karen-ma … -12848700/

assuming people have called the police on you for simply being in the 'wrong' area, have you then ever got into an altercation with a police officer? have you ever feared for your life when talking to a police officer? have you ever feared wrongful imprisonment? being forcibly restrained? killed? somehow i sincerely doubt you've ever had to confront this sort of fear or anxiety.

have you ever been pursued and chased down by people carrying guns, intent on performing a 'citizen's arrest', simply because you're out for a jog in their neighbourhood?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52764898

tell me more about how you know about racism, and it's 'mostly just banter'.

you know, dilbert, and i mean this quite sincerely, once in a while you should really actually shut the fuck up and try listening to someone else's experiences. you file everything away in your own little 'culture war' contraptions, you have an answer and retort to everything, and you look like a very, very silly man. shut up and learn something.
Why don't you try going for a jog in downtown Lagos and report back your experience?

Or Tower Hamlets late at night?

What you've quoted is extreme examples which have occurred occasionally over decades.

You literally wouldn't last five minutes in Soweto.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-06-28 02:46:39)

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