"There's nothing we could have done to contain the virus"
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +654|4084
As we've spent about 160 pages extensively outlining what we hate about this whole situation I figured we might want to list a few positives as well:
-everyone finally being propelled into the digital age and normalisation of work from home arrangements
-significant reduction in CO2 emissions for at least half a year to a year
-speeding up the timetable on what was an inevitable recession anyway
-possibly relieving pressure on urban housing markets due to aformentioned normalisation of WFH. People are more likely to look for housing farther out in the country if they only need to be in the office a few times a week max
-reducing office space in cities again due to WFH opening up possibility for conversion to appartments & increasing corporate revenues
-long overdue but hopefully introduction of mandatory risk management protocols and an end to corporate speculation in the private sector. We've more or less fixed this in banks after the financial crisis, now it's time to stop corporations from embarking on compulsive hugely expensive M&A's financed externally and loss-making market undercutting leaving only the bare minimum in available liquidity in case of disaster scenario's. This could prove to be a giant issue if some household names start disappearing because guess who financed that risky behaviour to begin with...
-everyone finally being propelled into the digital age and normalisation of work from home arrangements
-significant reduction in CO2 emissions for at least half a year to a year
-speeding up the timetable on what was an inevitable recession anyway
-possibly relieving pressure on urban housing markets due to aformentioned normalisation of WFH. People are more likely to look for housing farther out in the country if they only need to be in the office a few times a week max
-reducing office space in cities again due to WFH opening up possibility for conversion to appartments & increasing corporate revenues
-long overdue but hopefully introduction of mandatory risk management protocols and an end to corporate speculation in the private sector. We've more or less fixed this in banks after the financial crisis, now it's time to stop corporations from embarking on compulsive hugely expensive M&A's financed externally and loss-making market undercutting leaving only the bare minimum in available liquidity in case of disaster scenario's. This could prove to be a giant issue if some household names start disappearing because guess who financed that risky behaviour to begin with...
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +654|4084
There will be no attempts to reform how corporations manage themselves while Trump is in office. There will be no attempts to reform _________ while Trump is in office. It has less to do with incompetence than it has to do with the lack of desire to reform anything. Especially if that reform is something that broadly helps society.
Trump won the election off of a wave of anger and resentment to change. The American right holds selfishness as a virtue. They will never go along with stuff that will constrain their ability to be selfish, hoard, and look down on others in even the vaguest sense.
Trump won the election off of a wave of anger and resentment to change. The American right holds selfishness as a virtue. They will never go along with stuff that will constrain their ability to be selfish, hoard, and look down on others in even the vaguest sense.
Oh but we're not nearly through this yet. Most big players and essential services have by now received enough bailout to last till the end of this year, but a ton of companies didn't receive anything. Q3/Q4 and next year, esp. as earnings reports start appearing, will be the true damage assessment. That's all still hoping covid disappears or ends up being only a mild inconvenience not requiring a reintroduction of restrictions.
All that meaning: once a handful of large multinationals are forced to declare bankruptcy or start closing down significant portions of their business streams, you'll be given plenty incentive to write some legislation on corporate responsibility and risk management.
All that meaning: once a handful of large multinationals are forced to declare bankruptcy or start closing down significant portions of their business streams, you'll be given plenty incentive to write some legislation on corporate responsibility and risk management.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +654|4084
Republicans undid a lot of the reforms that came into effect after the 2008 recession. They will never accept changes and reforms.
i laughed at the bit where larssen said we 'fixed the banks after the 2008 financial crisis'.
hahahahaha good one.
hahahahaha good one.
The specific causes of the financial crisis were adressed and speculative trading was reined in.
Aftereffect is that supercomputers now do most of the daytrading on the stock market. Which is another problem but at least they're predictable and programmed to be risk averse.
Aftereffect is that supercomputers now do most of the daytrading on the stock market. Which is another problem but at least they're predictable and programmed to be risk averse.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-06-22 11:43:06)
super-computers were going to do all of the trading regardless of a financial crisis or not. technological development has nothing to do with it.
national governments are still cucks before the banks. there has been no assertion of political will or control over the financial sector.
what has contributed to the current inflation of the stock market? shady practices like stock buybacks? yeah wow. great job. we really fixed wall street.
national governments are still cucks before the banks. there has been no assertion of political will or control over the financial sector.
what has contributed to the current inflation of the stock market? shady practices like stock buybacks? yeah wow. great job. we really fixed wall street.
Well to the banks' credit it's not them that are failing society right now, though they do have partial responsibility for enabling speculation elsewhere.
Whatever the central banks do... different story. But honestly I don't know if anyone else would try another approach. As people we generally have a tendency to keep our systems going until and only until they irrevocably fail. If the issue is with the fabric that makes up society today, i.e. fundamental problems in capitalism and the system of nation states, who do you call to fix that?
Whatever the central banks do... different story. But honestly I don't know if anyone else would try another approach. As people we generally have a tendency to keep our systems going until and only until they irrevocably fail. If the issue is with the fabric that makes up society today, i.e. fundamental problems in capitalism and the system of nation states, who do you call to fix that?
Last edited by Larssen (2020-06-22 12:22:49)
spoken like the truest liberal to ever live.
Give me your non-liberal plan to definitively fix tax offshoring, for starters
why do all forms of state intervention or dirigism have to be liberal? very confusing.
So the racetrack announced the state will let them be open if they take everyone's temperature and keep groups to 10 or less
re: larssen
Everyone is most definitely not being propelled into the digital age by the "normalization of WFH." The list of "essential workers" is largish, and a lot of people who don't have that going for them are just out of work (you can't exactly bus tables from your living room), and some of the places they worked for are out of business with no plans to reopen.
The simplistic solution is to reopen everything ASAP, consequences (including those that also hurt the economy) be damned.
The recent nixing of H-1B and H-2B in the US will also probably complicate matters. People jumping behind Trump on this think it's just sticking it to tech companies hiring programmers on the cheap. I think it will make it more difficult for a lot of businesses to fill positions (including those at aforementioned tech companies) that Americans just don't want to work in even if they are jobless, or simply aren't qualified for.
I can't wait to see how the Trumpers among my business pals react to this.
Everyone is most definitely not being propelled into the digital age by the "normalization of WFH." The list of "essential workers" is largish, and a lot of people who don't have that going for them are just out of work (you can't exactly bus tables from your living room), and some of the places they worked for are out of business with no plans to reopen.
The simplistic solution is to reopen everything ASAP, consequences (including those that also hurt the economy) be damned.
The recent nixing of H-1B and H-2B in the US will also probably complicate matters. People jumping behind Trump on this think it's just sticking it to tech companies hiring programmers on the cheap. I think it will make it more difficult for a lot of businesses to fill positions (including those at aforementioned tech companies) that Americans just don't want to work in even if they are jobless, or simply aren't qualified for.
I can't wait to see how the Trumpers among my business pals react to this.
My company is bringing people back into the office more regularly starting this week for ... reasons?
I hope people going stir crazy at home after a few months of soft quarantine withdrew from whatever pledges they've made to join Mars colonists or whatever. lol
To be fair I'd be ready to step out of an airlock without a spacesuit if I had a week of what I imagine Jay's kids are like.
The banks haven't been reformed, IIRC Trump tore away all the protections which were carefully put in place, after lobbying by er the banks.
What did it really come down to? Two groups of people bet against each other, one side lost and demanded the govt refund their bet.
The banks haven't been reformed, IIRC Trump tore away all the protections which were carefully put in place, after lobbying by er the banks.
What did it really come down to? Two groups of people bet against each other, one side lost and demanded the govt refund their bet.
Fuck Israel
^ agree. the idea that the financial sector or banks have been ‘chastised’ after 2008 is funny. they got full bail outs and most of the bankers and super-rich only got wealthier in the last decade.
every new government since 2008 have promoted austerity for the masses and quantitative easing/rescue packages for the big boys. lmao. the banks under control it has been the biggest transfer of wealth upwards since the era of royal dynasties. we now have shrunken states and cut public services and, once again, a deregulated City and tax cuts for corporations.
buT hOw cAn wE reForM tHe worlD witHouT lIbeRaL cApiTalisM??/
every new government since 2008 have promoted austerity for the masses and quantitative easing/rescue packages for the big boys. lmao. the banks under control it has been the biggest transfer of wealth upwards since the era of royal dynasties. we now have shrunken states and cut public services and, once again, a deregulated City and tax cuts for corporations.
buT hOw cAn wE reForM tHe worlD witHouT lIbeRaL cApiTalisM??/
Last edited by uziq (2020-06-23 01:34:13)
Well listen I can't speak on behalf of the entire planet when bank reform is concerned, but safe to say that in my country and the EU at large the practices that saw some financial institutions overexposed to the eurocrisis were addressed. As far as I know and am aware, the low quality subprime mortgage securities in the US are also off the table - you know, the direct cause for the 2008 shitshow. Which also became cause for a magnifying glass to be hovered over speculative trading practices in general. This did speed up technological advancement in, among other things, algorithmic trading and called banks to be more thorough in their documentation and rationalisation in market movements, not only from governments and central banks' oversight but private parties as well. I haven't kept up with the precise list of US reforms post lehman brothers but I consider it highly unlikely the above or the majority of those reforms were rolled back because Dilbert says so.
Now when I say that it's not the banks failing us in the current crisis or that the specific problems underlying the last recession were addressed, it doesn't imply that all is well now and there's no issues whatsoever in the financial sector. It's rather disingenuous to run with that argument.
As for tax offshoring and liberalism - my response was to you saying I'm acting 'like a true liberal!' Well then, present me a different plan. Which I know you won't provide because tax offshoring, which is just the tip of the iceberg, is legally almost impossible to fix because it's a play between nation states as well. Efforts to that end might also seriously cripple national economies so some caution is in order. I'm not seeing the how. The legal experts who figure that one out deserve a nobel imo.
One approach which does have more of a chance of succes IS liberalism: bringing the private parties and government/public together to work on this as a team rather than against eachother.
Now when I say that it's not the banks failing us in the current crisis or that the specific problems underlying the last recession were addressed, it doesn't imply that all is well now and there's no issues whatsoever in the financial sector. It's rather disingenuous to run with that argument.
As for tax offshoring and liberalism - my response was to you saying I'm acting 'like a true liberal!' Well then, present me a different plan. Which I know you won't provide because tax offshoring, which is just the tip of the iceberg, is legally almost impossible to fix because it's a play between nation states as well. Efforts to that end might also seriously cripple national economies so some caution is in order. I'm not seeing the how. The legal experts who figure that one out deserve a nobel imo.
One approach which does have more of a chance of succes IS liberalism: bringing the private parties and government/public together to work on this as a team rather than against eachother.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-06-23 05:40:26)
both the populist right and left-wing have ideas about curbing tax evasion and re-asserting national sovereignity and independence.
they have plenty more ideas about it than liberalism, in fact, which is why so many plebs are going in for the dangerous 'soros' conspiracy theories and general xenophobic/racist/anti-semitic buffet.
it's genuinely head-scratching that you think the only political philosophy with an answer to taxation or an overweening finance sector is ... the technocratic (neo-)liberals who got us into this mess in the first place. how elegant the solution! we need to entrust the same people who thought deregulation, open labour markets, free trade, etc, were the answer to all social problems ... we need to entrust them with the solution!
they have plenty more ideas about it than liberalism, in fact, which is why so many plebs are going in for the dangerous 'soros' conspiracy theories and general xenophobic/racist/anti-semitic buffet.
it's genuinely head-scratching that you think the only political philosophy with an answer to taxation or an overweening finance sector is ... the technocratic (neo-)liberals who got us into this mess in the first place. how elegant the solution! we need to entrust the same people who thought deregulation, open labour markets, free trade, etc, were the answer to all social problems ... we need to entrust them with the solution!
Last edited by uziq (2020-06-23 05:46:34)
'Re-asserting national sovereignty and independence' - what a fucking joke. You can't seriously believe this laughable notion that individual national governments are going out to tackle the global economic system and the hideously complex financial web of multinationals. We can't even agree on this point at an EU level with ireland and the dutch acting as notorious tax havens. Let alone outside the EU - we have no jurisdiction in places like monaco.
You need a little more post nationalist thinking here and recognise that multinational corporations are in many ways detached from the ancient national market economies. Also, not all liberalism is the same. Neoliberals and social liberals are two different breeds.
You need a little more post nationalist thinking here and recognise that multinational corporations are in many ways detached from the ancient national market economies. Also, not all liberalism is the same. Neoliberals and social liberals are two different breeds.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-06-23 05:52:50)
they're not different breeds at all. you can be a social liberal and an economic neoliberal.
i do not think that smoothing over national self-determination for the sake of multi-national corporations is a good idea.
i do think that the british state can handily close many of its tax loopholes and tax havens, yes, considering a good number of them are british crown principalities or part of the commonwealth. the only reason the 'british' virgin islands exist is because it is convenient for the City and UK corporations/billionaire businessmen. they sure don't exist for the benefit of their small populations, or the average brit.
yes, we have seen difficulties with the present model, like how ireland bent over to give preferential tax and rates to corporations, who then just as quickly left or proposed going elsewhere when there was a better deal. that decade really 'enriched' the irish people, didn't it?
'centrist' liberal politics is entirely beholden to capitalism and the capitalist class. governments and their leaders pay fealty to the City. the balance of power is all wrong. claims that it 'can't be any other way' are about as valid to me as claims that 'history is over, liberalism has won'. the system as it is now isn't working for 95% of people, and there will only be more discord, not less, as people press on in this deluded direction. macron, merkel etc. have all tried to make their societies more banking/finance friendly, not less. macron has tried to marketize and 'liberalize' the extremely recalcitrant french state apparatus, which is impressive stuff indeed for a state that has been very much characterized as 'post-mitterrand' until now. how has that been playing with the french people who you talk about so highly for their 'liberal' citizenship?
the fix to capitalism's lurching ills and illegality are not more capitalism, sorry.
i do not think that smoothing over national self-determination for the sake of multi-national corporations is a good idea.
i do think that the british state can handily close many of its tax loopholes and tax havens, yes, considering a good number of them are british crown principalities or part of the commonwealth. the only reason the 'british' virgin islands exist is because it is convenient for the City and UK corporations/billionaire businessmen. they sure don't exist for the benefit of their small populations, or the average brit.
yes, we have seen difficulties with the present model, like how ireland bent over to give preferential tax and rates to corporations, who then just as quickly left or proposed going elsewhere when there was a better deal. that decade really 'enriched' the irish people, didn't it?
'centrist' liberal politics is entirely beholden to capitalism and the capitalist class. governments and their leaders pay fealty to the City. the balance of power is all wrong. claims that it 'can't be any other way' are about as valid to me as claims that 'history is over, liberalism has won'. the system as it is now isn't working for 95% of people, and there will only be more discord, not less, as people press on in this deluded direction. macron, merkel etc. have all tried to make their societies more banking/finance friendly, not less. macron has tried to marketize and 'liberalize' the extremely recalcitrant french state apparatus, which is impressive stuff indeed for a state that has been very much characterized as 'post-mitterrand' until now. how has that been playing with the french people who you talk about so highly for their 'liberal' citizenship?
the fix to capitalism's lurching ills and illegality are not more capitalism, sorry.
Last edited by uziq (2020-06-23 06:12:04)
Just remember, it was German banks in league with Goldman Sach which broke Europe.
Have they been fixed?
Have they been fixed?
Fuck Israel
People are coming out of the woodwork trying to give me their resume right now. This is all very bad.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
My linkedin is being bombarded by hot asian sales chicks.
The financial impact has barely begun.
The financial impact has barely begun.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-06-23 06:46:26)
Fuck Israel