BF2S Forums Race relations thread

lmao jay is such a courageous and independent thinker.

it was a lot more fun when it was bigger. there were some huge conservatives on here back in the day that would really get into it. people who actually had principles, unlike jay.

it's actually pretty spicy that the end-game is jay being a little trumpian bootlicker, anti-experts and anti-intellectual.

back in the day he was into hegel, changed his signature once every month to some profound quotes.com thinker, and would affect to be a libertarian.

ho-hum!

Jay wrote:

Pochsy wrote:

I think it's somewhat unfair to Jay to explain his knowledge base as coming from a place outside of the high academic tradition. I don't think he has a reference point to understand what we're saying is the source of discordance. It's akin to telling him that the version of Chinese food in America is a pale shade of Chinese food in China. Unless both are lived experience the comparison is lost.

Why the insults? Have I insulted you? Uzi literally made my point for me. His learning ended in college and any opinion that he possesses must be sourced, and consensus reached before he utters it. He is a complete coward both physically and intellectually. If his social crowd came to the conclusion tomorrow that the cracks in the streets were a form of racism he would back them to the hilt, and cite several academics to support his case.

Are you attacking me because you fear being painted with the same brush? What have you done, pochsy, to better the world? What creativity do you possess? Do you have the courage to be genuinely different or is it always better to play it safe? Judging from your position within a government agency, with nice benefits, a guaranteed pension, and not too much hassle, I can guess.

What opinion do you possess that deviates from the mainstream? These are the things that make people interesting to talk to and to know. These are the spice of life. Because honestly, you've never come across as anything other than utterly vanilla up to this point, chode licking of uzi notwithstanding.

Really not meant as a direct insult. I'm saying it's unfair to you to accuse you of anti-intellectualism because it isn't coming from a place of malice, it's coming from a benign misunderstanding of what academia is. Sure, I guess the implicit argument there is that there's some level of ignorance involved, but ignorance isn't an insurmountable intellectual failing, as some other people are suggesting.

I do tend to have very basic opinions and to try and consider arguments from multiple sides. I suppose you and Mac find it boring that I don't take an immediate hard-line. Happy to go back to being the 'furniture' if that'd be preferable. I consider myself too uninformed to argue a point to the hilt, honestly.

Macbeth should make a thread where we all decide what kind of furniture we are. I'd like to nominate Jay for that stubborn family heirloom coffee table that doesn't fit any of the decor.

e:

also, oof:

Jay wrote:

He is a complete coward both physically and intellectually.

Doesn't mean his opinions are invalid.
Tell us again how the one time you came under fire you disobeyed orders and ran away.

If his social crowd came to the conclusion tomorrow that the cracks in the streets were a form of racism he would back them to the hilt, and cite several academics to support his case.

I'm sorry that your wife's charity is being accused of historical racism, doesn't mean every complaint about racism is invalid or time-passed.

Fixing potholes is something which should be left to the free market.
Potholes are in fact good, eventually an entrepreneur will invent hovercars.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Minneapolis mayor booed out of a rally he visited. I have never seen anything like this before.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/players/o … 0007178355

also seems this guy just trashed his mayoral re-election for no reason. didn't the council decide to scrap the police a day later?

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Minneapolis mayor booed out of a rally he visited. I have never seen anything like this before.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/players/o … 0007178355

also seems this guy just trashed his mayoral re-election for no reason. didn't the council decide to scrap the police a day later?

With a veto proof majority. I don't know the specifics of it though. I haven't looked into. On it's face it seems crazy but I said the same thing regarding the "Abolish ICE" movement but came around to the idea once people who are experts in thing explained how it can be done practically. In ICE's case, the organization "U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement" would be abolished and its duties and parts redistributed to other agencies. That not only breaks up the nascent 'Trump SS' direction the agency is going in but also sends a message to other Federal Law Enforcement agencies regarding abuse. In the case of Minneapolis, I assume that means firing/laying off the officers, disbanding the organization, and rehiring and staffing a new police department with new oversight mechanisms. Again, I don't know how to feel about that.

In other news, someone in Seattle tried to drive a car into a crowd, and shot a protester who stopped him. He then surrendered peacefully to the police. The crowd got upset and threw a glass bottle at the police line that hit a National Guard officer in the head. The police and NG then opened fire with tear gas which was banned by the police a few days earlier. As of 2:22 AM Seattle time, protesters are lighting fires away from the police lines and refusing to leave. The night before, protesters in Portland surrounded a police station like a medieval siege until the police came in with tear gas and rubber bullets to break them up.

The BLM protest happened in my town today and I didn't go. I saw the pictures online and will rehost them and share my thoughts on them and how they are relevant to the violence in major cities.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

You can't just hold up traffic every time you want to do a little roadwork. Life goes on, and I have to get the kids to kindergarten.

Says the guy that would sacrifice the life and livelihood of every person in this country if it would mean he gets to see his parents at Christmas just one more time!

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

You can't just hold up traffic every time you want to do a little roadwork. Life goes on, and I have to get the kids to kindergarten.

Says the guy that would sacrifice the life and livelihood of every person in this country if it would mean he gets to see his parents at Christmas just one more time!

jay, not everyone has such conflicted relationships with their elders.

most societies on this planet value their elders very highly, as a source of filial respect and a source of wisdom.

not everyone sees them in terms of economically unproductive individuals (if that is even the case).

i find it just as risible that you'd be willing to kill 100,000s of old people so that your children can go to daycare.

I'm just pointing out his own selfish motives when he's like a broken record pointing out mine.

uziq wrote:

very interesting.

a protest happened in bristol yesterday, it made international news. they tore down a statue of an 18th century slave-trader and dragged it about 500m to dump it in the floating harbour. this all took place about 5 minutes from my apartment and is right bang in the touristy bit of the centre where everyone ordinarily goes for food and drinks. quite an odd sight. the statue was pretty controversial, for obvious reasons, but i mean the entire city is built on slavery. the statues aren't even the tip of the iceberg. half of the university here is slave money.

Did they burn down the hospital and university while they were at it?

You'd think all the people butthurt about slavery would be delighted to go back to the land of the forebears and never see a white face again.

In no particular order my clan forebears were probably defeated and enslaved by the Germans, Romans, Normans, Vikings, Vandals, Saxons, Visigoths, Huns and probably a few others.
But so what really? How long do white people have to go on apologising for what was historically relatively mild behaviour which actually affected very few people? No-one else does.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-06-08 04:45:19)

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

Says the guy that would sacrifice the life and livelihood of every person in this country if it would mean he gets to see his parents at Christmas just one more time!

jay, not everyone has such conflicted relationships with their elders.

most societies on this planet value their elders very highly, as a source of filial respect and a source of wisdom.

not everyone sees them in terms of economically unproductive individuals (if that is even the case).

i find it just as risible that you'd be willing to kill 100,000s of old people so that your children can go to daycare.

I'm just pointing out his own selfish motives when he's like a broken record pointing out mine.

how is it selfish to be willing to sacrifice your own economic wellbeing for your elders or vulnerable relatives? caring about someone else's welfare is the opposite of selfish, jay.

Did they burn down the hospital and university while they were at it?

You'd think all the people butthurt about slavery would be delighted to go back to the land of the forebears and never see a white face again.

to be fair i don't have a problem with taking down a statue of a slave-trader. the plinth said he was a 'virtuous citizen of the city' which, even by the standards of the day when the statue was erected (1890s) was very spurious stuff. we'd been trying to clear out our rivals' use of the slave trade for most of the century by that point. the statue's existence is thanks to the merchant venturers, who are basically a masonic guild who own most of bristol and run its civic institutions. that's a whole other story to do with their power struggle within the city between their fading maritime and port influence/power, and the new industrial-manufacturing powers in the city. so they dredged up a posterboy from the 18th century and made him a civic icon. colston was not celebrated as such in his lifetime (in fact, in his will he expressed wishes to be buried without fanfare).

my problem is more locally specific and is to do with gestures of empty symbolism vs actual meaningful change. bristol city council declined a proposal to build a slavery/abolition museum on some empty prime land in the centre, something a city like bristol, which was absolutely integral to the atlantic slave trade, could probably use; they opted to sell the real estate for a few more alfresco restaurants on the nice waterfront location instead. people should go after those decisions rather than tossing statues in harbours and feeling good about it.

Probably a good decision, tourists are never going to visit Bristol and there's only so many times the locals are going to want to go to a museum.