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SuperJail Warden
Member
+343|2332
The fall 2019 postsecondary enrollment numbers have been tabulated, and the news is once again sure to concern college leaders. Overall, postsecondary enrollments decreased by 1.3% in fall 2019, a drop of more than 231,000 students from last year. That’s according to the the Fall 2019 Current Term Enrollment Estimates report from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center. (Institutions that submit enrollment data to the Clearinghouse account for 97% of all enrollments at Title IV, degree-granting institutions.)

For the first time this decade, the nation’s fall semester’s unduplicated enrollments dipped below 18 million, a decline of more than 2 million students since its peak in 2011.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltni … 4681ee3d95

This article was posted in December of 2019. The COVID crisis is going to cause a decline in college attendance even further. The depression the economy is in will push numbers down further. High education is kind of fucked and nothing will be done about it.

When the Great Recession hit in 2008 enrollment in higher education spiked. People were confident that things would eventually turn around and the investment was worth it. Even graduate schools experienced a bump due to professionals looking to get new skills. Now? Do people feel confident things are going to turn around? We are still in free fall at the moment and the virus just had its best day ever..

To top off all of the bad news we also need to keep in the mind that the cost of college is just going higher and higher. People were getting priced out of higher education before the economy crashed. That was a minor crisis before all of this.

So where does higher education go form here? What needs to be done? Me? I feel that we should just burn it all down.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England
You do realize that we're entering a population valley, right? The millennial generation was the biggest in history, the following generation is smaller.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+343|2332
I don't think that is correct. (APRIL 28, 2020)
Millennials have surpassed Baby Boomers as the nation’s largest living adult generation, according to population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau. As of July 1, 2019 (the latest date for which population estimates are available), Millennials, whom we define as ages 23 to 38 in 2019, numbered 72.1 million, and Boomers (ages 55 to 73) numbered 71.6 million.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 … eneration/

There were so many Boomers that even though they were older they still had the most people until recently. From other sources I have found there are more Gen Z than millennial at the moment though they haven't all entered adulthood.
uziq
Member
+280|2065
the universities here are majorly fucked because their now-private income streams, since the government privatised the whole sector, is now reliant on about 20% international students (paying 3x the price). well, for the next year or two, international students are going to be way down. that's a huge chunk of budget gone. and, of course, they're all fucking leveraged up to the hilt building luxury student accommodation for said monied international students. a lot of building projects are going to be have to be shelved.

a total disaster of the politicians' and university chancellors' doing. they deserve it.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I don't think that is correct. (APRIL 28, 2020)
Millennials have surpassed Baby Boomers as the nation’s largest living adult generation, according to population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau. As of July 1, 2019 (the latest date for which population estimates are available), Millennials, whom we define as ages 23 to 38 in 2019, numbered 72.1 million, and Boomers (ages 55 to 73) numbered 71.6 million.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 … eneration/

There were so many Boomers that even though they were older they still had the most people until recently. From other sources I have found there are more Gen Z than millennial at the moment though they haven't all entered adulthood.
Millennial parents are Boomers. Gen Z parents are Gen X. Gen X was smaller than the Boomer and Millennial generations, so Gen Z will be too.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4719|eXtreme to the maX
A problem here is college courses are so dumbed down and simplified for asian students with piss-poor english that locals are complaining they aren't getting value for money.
The locals have to take loans to pay so I'm guessing they aren't bothering so much, and there's the demographic squeeze.

The management is greedy, my small town has three universities which have refused to merge because the chancellors couldn't agree on which of them would get culled.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+690|4156|Toronto
It'll be interesting to see if online courses become a larger facet of normal instruction as a result of COVID-19. If it does, it could really fix a lot of higher education cost issues. Fewer student services to provide, fewer classrooms to maintain, less amenities needed. This is assuming they can still charge international students full price. If it's looked at as paying for the degree, then maybe they can.

Last edited by Pochsy (2020-05-27 16:43:22)

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4719|eXtreme to the maX
Next courses will be delivered by video on demand, who needs an actual lecturer?

Live lectures in person aren't even a good format, you can't hit pause when your biro breaks or rewind when the guy next to you yawns or fidgets and you miss a key word, or the chinese guy behind you jabs you in the ribs and asks "wha he say? me no hear"
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+280|2065
there have been online courses and video lectures for decades. the benefits of being taught in a classroom and being part of an actual cohort are very real. and yes, it also involves networking and socialization. 'graduates' need to be socialized as such for many graduate careers, it's just an obvious part of it. so, yes, it might work if you want to teach yourself coding from home using the University of Bitcoin and github, and where you can go on to find a career as a contractor or whatever, but it doesn't work so well for other professions.

also, just sticking with the strictly academic side of things, it would be hugely impoverishing if students didn't get access to physical libraries, research archives, laboratories, fieldwork, etc. it's a huge part of becoming an academic by vocation and of pursuing your own intellectual development. that goes for individual study or collaborative research.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-28 06:27:36)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Next courses will be delivered by video on demand, who needs an actual lecturer?

Live lectures in person aren't even a good format, you can't hit pause when your biro breaks or rewind when the guy next to you yawns or fidgets and you miss a key word, or the chinese guy behind you jabs you in the ribs and asks "wha he say? me no hear"
I believe I said much the same thing along the way. Why pay for a college education when you can just buy a library for a fraction of the cost? Arguing with books is difficult, and argument is necessary for deep understanding.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+280|2065

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Next courses will be delivered by video on demand, who needs an actual lecturer?

Live lectures in person aren't even a good format, you can't hit pause when your biro breaks or rewind when the guy next to you yawns or fidgets and you miss a key word, or the chinese guy behind you jabs you in the ribs and asks "wha he say? me no hear"
I believe I said much the same thing along the way. Why pay for a college education when you can just buy a library for a fraction of the cost? Arguing with books is difficult, and argument is necessary for deep understanding.
lmaoooo are you describing a literature degree? christ you are a derp.

the libertarians have always gone for this dumb approach to education. ‘all you need is a pen and pAper and a computer!’.

it’s funny that it’s never the people with an actual experience of college who promote it. the same crowd of dropouts or community college graduates who say shit like ‘gates and zuckerberg dropped out!’ or ‘my degree is worth just the same as yours!’
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Next courses will be delivered by video on demand, who needs an actual lecturer?

Live lectures in person aren't even a good format, you can't hit pause when your biro breaks or rewind when the guy next to you yawns or fidgets and you miss a key word, or the chinese guy behind you jabs you in the ribs and asks "wha he say? me no hear"
I believe I said much the same thing along the way. Why pay for a college education when you can just buy a library for a fraction of the cost? Arguing with books is difficult, and argument is necessary for deep understanding.
lmaoooo are you describing a literature degree? christ you are a derp.

the libertarians have always gone for this dumb approach to education. ‘all you need is a pen and pAper and a computer!’.

it’s funny that it’s never the people with an actual experience of college who promote it. the same crowd of dropouts or community college graduates who say shit like ‘gates and zuckerberg dropped out!’ or ‘my degree is worth just the same as yours!’
Your reading comprehension levels are nil.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4719|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Next courses will be delivered by video on demand, who needs an actual lecturer?

Live lectures in person aren't even a good format, you can't hit pause when your biro breaks or rewind when the guy next to you yawns or fidgets and you miss a key word, or the chinese guy behind you jabs you in the ribs and asks "wha he say? me no hear"
I believe I said much the same thing along the way. Why pay for a college education when you can just buy a library for a fraction of the cost? Arguing with books is difficult, and argument is necessary for deep understanding.
lmaoooo are you describing a literature degree? christ you are a derp.

the libertarians have always gone for this dumb approach to education. ‘all you need is a pen and pAper and a computer!’.

it’s funny that it’s never the people with an actual experience of college who promote it. the same crowd of dropouts or community college graduates who say shit like ‘gates and zuckerberg dropped out!’ or ‘my degree is worth just the same as yours!’
There was exactly zero debate in my degree, just 200 of us and a lecturer.
Might as well have been a video TBH.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:


I believe I said much the same thing along the way. Why pay for a college education when you can just buy a library for a fraction of the cost? Arguing with books is difficult, and argument is necessary for deep understanding.
lmaoooo are you describing a literature degree? christ you are a derp.

the libertarians have always gone for this dumb approach to education. ‘all you need is a pen and pAper and a computer!’.

it’s funny that it’s never the people with an actual experience of college who promote it. the same crowd of dropouts or community college graduates who say shit like ‘gates and zuckerberg dropped out!’ or ‘my degree is worth just the same as yours!’
There was exactly zero debate in my degree, just 200 of us and a lecturer.
Might as well have been a video TBH.
You never asked questions in class or used office hours??
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+280|2065

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

I believe I said much the same thing along the way. Why pay for a college education when you can just buy a library for a fraction of the cost? Arguing with books is difficult, and argument is necessary for deep understanding.
lmaoooo are you describing a literature degree? christ you are a derp.

the libertarians have always gone for this dumb approach to education. ‘all you need is a pen and pAper and a computer!’.

it’s funny that it’s never the people with an actual experience of college who promote it. the same crowd of dropouts or community college graduates who say shit like ‘gates and zuckerberg dropped out!’ or ‘my degree is worth just the same as yours!’
There was exactly zero debate in my degree, just 200 of us and a lecturer.
Might as well have been a video TBH.
ours was 30% lectures, 60% small seminars, and 10% 1-on-1 tutorials.

no lectures in graduate school, big talks and symposia to attend, but otherwise small seminars and tutorials.

i liked lectures, i liked them very much. i wouldn't wish to get rid of them. but the other parts were very valuable.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-28 07:37:57)

RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,674|5350|Oxferd
Burnzz completed his online degree this month
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+280|2065
good for burnzz. good to never stop learning!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,804|5384|USA

In anger management?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4719|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

You never asked questions in class or used office hours??
After two students in two different lectures were shut down with "If you need to ask that you're too stupid to be here" people stopped asking questions.

Lecturers were unavailable during office hours, their doors were firmly shut, tutorials were almost exclusively done by graduate students.

The course was 90% lectures, 5% labs, 5% tutorials, except for the final year which was 30% thesis.

For my thesis I think I had about 15 minutes total contact with my supervisor.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

You never asked questions in class or used office hours??
After two students in two different lectures were shut down with "If you need to ask that you're too stupid to be here" people stopped asking questions.

Lecturers were unavailable during office hours, their doors were firmly shut, tutorials were almost exclusively done by graduate students.

The course was 90% lectures, 5% labs, 5% tutorials, except for the final year which was 30% thesis.

For my thesis I think I had about 15 minutes total contact with my supervisor.
Sounds like a wonderful learning experience. I bet the failure rate was astronomical
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4719|eXtreme to the maX
It wasn't spoonfed. IIRC the annual failure rate was around 10%.
Epstein didn't kill himself

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