BF2S Forums Race relations thread

Larssen wrote:

So apparently someone has graffitid 'I can't breathe' on a train in Belgium. I've heard flyers with these words were spread in London as well. Why do people insist on exporting this shit?

because the police in london have a history of racism? because the low countries are racist as fuck? because of common humanity? do you think europe is above institutional racism or something?

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-31 03:02:15)

Riot stream : https://m.twitch.tv/woke, It's only 2 AM on the west coast so they have a way to go tonight.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2020-05-31 02:13:02)

wow you sure do like a few keywords from your grad studies, don't you? 'reified views'? what ideological views are not reified? i think you need to read that book again. or at least elaborate whatever niche and idiosyncratic use you're making of it this time, again, as with episteme.

i am not likening the situation to the one in the US at all. but i am also not speaking for the experience of immigrant or subaltern peoples in europe, who may feel plenty of sympathies with BLM when it comes to encountering institutional racism. you, on the other hand, are sniffy when people express views you don't like outside of your liberal bienpensant mainstream. 'all is well and can be fixed by a little bit of policy'. 'if the little people will stop expressing themselves in such confused and contrary ways, and adopt my elevated perspective'. OK.

i don't doubt that you're well-educated but in a narrow way and it comes across increasingly, as you spread yourself across multiple discussions, as callow and jejune. 'why isn't the world like my education portrayed it?' see ken's remark to you above. so yeah, sure, explain patiently to an immigrant in belgium that their inflamed feelings and outrage are inappropriate because their views are 'hopelessly reified' and 'this is a different context requiring a different set of material analyses'. from their perspective i'm sure it's all just more official hypocrisy from people talking up how great liberal democracy is whilst defending and caviling and nuancing endlessly about its illiberality and non-democratic iniquities. ‘but american slavery was different to british slavery! the belgian colonies were nothing like the plantations in terms of political economy!’

i'm sorry but it looks like you're ignorant. the UK metropolitan police as an institution have been culpably racist. lots of people have died in custody under less than ideal circumstances. there is a history in london of race riots and racist policing. look up 'operation swamp 81' and the brixton riots. it's not a crude importing of specifically american race relations to an unsuitable context: it's the same shit, in a different place. disproportionately white police forces meting out the law disproportionately to black citizens.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-31 03:55:54)

i think the sympathy is largely affective and not really about organized or systemic critiques. nobody is trying to get a political boost in europe from the american riots. it's just an expression of solidarity and public shock/outrage/grief or whatever. it's strictly affective. i have no idea why it bothers larssen so much that someone hands out a flyer or graffitos a train. it's like an english person getting pissed when americans expressed grief over princess diana dying, or something. grr grr they don't even have a monarchy over there bla bla bla.

as for 'reified views' and 'wrong thinking', i don't really think it's his place to tell some immigrant or black person or whatever living in brussels how to feel when they see footage like that. i'm sure their experience of justice and institutions in europe has been very different from his.

he takes a keen interest in american politics in other respects, even though the inner machinations of american party politics or trump's agenda have a marginal effect on belgium. i don't really get it. why can’t even a white european express outrage and desire for change? doesn’t he criticise china’s treatment of hong kong, presumably on the same universalist principles or in respect for the same due process of law? i don’t get it.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-31 04:02:54)

Larssen wrote:

When's the last time you saw police in london or belgium kneeling on the necks of people till they died?

There are some elements of racism and conniving with white criminals, certainly in the Met, certainly in the past.
But over the years the police in general haven't really singled out specific ethnic groups for violence and corruption, they've been fairly even-handed in killing and assaulting people from all races, and they've been thoroughly protected by 'the system'.

At this point the Police in the UK have largely given up on real policing and exist mostly to protect politicians.

"She says she was walking home with her groceries when police fired some sort of pellet in her face. Says she’s not a protester. #DallasProtests"
https://twitter.com/KevinRKrause/status … 6339675137

I don't believe she was just getting groceries and a cop decided to take a shot at her. She isn't dressed for a riot or protest though so who knows. That is going to leave a scar by the way.

uziq wrote:

there was a protestor on twitter who got pushed over by NYPD and spend the night in hospital with concussion or something. there's video from several angles and she didn't do anything. i don't think she even had a placard. some huge meaty NYPD guy was walking by and pushed her over haaaaard. they really don't do themselves any favours.

Then why was she there? She wants to play the victim now? Oh boo hoo

uziq wrote:

i agree the right to protest should be crushed unless it’s fat whining suburban whites talking about haircuts.

the funniest thing is YOU were the person hyping up the inevitable violence and discord from covid and it’s knock-on effects. you were fully in support of people going out and getting angry over public health measures. but a woman peacefully protesting the murder of a black man ... dumb bitch, should have stayed inside!

you really are a bootlicking pussy.

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

there was a protestor on twitter who got pushed over by NYPD and spend the night in hospital with concussion or something. there's video from several angles and she didn't do anything. i don't think she even had a placard. some huge meaty NYPD guy was walking by and pushed her over haaaaard. they really don't do themselves any favours.

Then why was she there? She wants to play the victim now? Oh boo hoo

I wish the National Guard had shot all those fat twats with AR15s waddling around.

Then you'd have something valid to whine about.

uziq wrote:

i agree the right to protest should be crushed unless it’s fat whining suburban whites talking about haircuts.

the funniest thing is YOU were the person hyping up the inevitable violence and discord from covid and it’s knock-on effects. you were fully in support of people going out and getting angry over public health measures. but a woman peacefully protesting the murder of a black man ... dumb bitch, should have stayed inside!

you really are a bootlicking pussy.

No, I wasn't in support of it. I said that riots were inevitable. You can't take away people's jobs and their hope and their ability to pay their bills and expect them to sit idly by. Remember when I said the cure was worse than the disease? You, who gave not a single thought about any of the people that actually work in this world and lost their jobs, who have been safe in your little cocoon of food delivery services and zoom meetings, didn't give a fuck about the people.

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

i agree the right to protest should be crushed unless it’s fat whining suburban whites talking about haircuts.

the funniest thing is YOU were the person hyping up the inevitable violence and discord from covid and it’s knock-on effects. you were fully in support of people going out and getting angry over public health measures. but a woman peacefully protesting the murder of a black man ... dumb bitch, should have stayed inside!

you really are a bootlicking pussy.

No, I wasn't in support of it. I said that riots were inevitable. You can't take away people's jobs and their hope and their ability to pay their bills and expect them to sit idly by. Remember when I said the cure was worse than the disease? You, who gave not a single thought about any of the people that actually work in this world and lost their jobs, who have been safe in your little cocoon of food delivery services and zoom meetings, didn't give a fuck about the people.

almost all of my friends have been furloughed and they agree with the measures. as do the majority of british people. maybe don’t speak on behalf of ‘the people’ quite so much? it’s a lazy right-wing thing.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-31 07:29:08)

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

If the government had gunned down a few of the AR-15 humpers, there would have been less of a push back than the protest we have now. People who follow this stuff closely say the federal government is afraid of another Oklahoma City bombing but I don't think that is it. I think people with power realize that the AR-15 protesters are all talk and will go home once it starts to get dark out or before the rush hour traffic. Your typical American conservative has less fight in them than black protesters or Middle Eastern goat farmers.

They're not there to fight. They're walking around with unloaded weapons. Their gun is a prop and the only reason they carry it is because they know it will make left wing people uncomfortable and upset. They're being provocative, not looking to start a revolution. These people like to focus on the aftermath of their protests too. They'll show their own protests with spotless grounds left behind, compared to left wing protests full of trash and fired police vehicles. It's all theater.

I'm not saying they would get into a shootout with police. I am saying that if the government dropped a few of them at a protest, they would stop showing up to places like that and just complain about it on their websites. In all likelihood a bunch of them would be scared off of protesting period. I mentioned before how the conservative white community doesn't value their lives so I wouldn't expect mass demonstrations like we have now either. And don't go on about spotless protest areas. I can google dirty conservative rallies too.

Yes, because they tend to be older, have families and businesses they are responsible for etc. They're not out there to die. They're out there to rally and to support their 2nd amendment rights. The ones that are out there to mix it up are the younger ones that most likely got into it to be edgy, since all their peers were talking about Marx all the time. They'll wilt too. These people, left and right, only feel powerful when they're in a group.