Last edited by Larssen (2020-05-28 08:20:12)
But you actually have no clue because your only interaction with them is when you walk down the street in minority neighborhoods, remember?Jay wrote:
No, they have a culture that spits on education and glorifies violence and crime, and thus they end up with a bunch of uneducated idiots with no prospects whose only hope at earning respect among their peers is from surviving prison. This has indeed bled over into white culture. I guess opposites attract though, because their culture is literally the exact opposite of the one you wish to personify, and yet you are going out of your way to defend it.uziq wrote:
the lockdown hasn't always been pointless. it is highly effective in almost every country that properly adopts it. how fucking arrogant can you be, a day after you pass 100,000 deaths in 4 months, that the 'lockdown is pointless'? meanwhile many countries with proper lockdown measures still have deaths in the dozens or low hundreds. i guess the excess 99,950 people's lives were pointless, anyway.
and, yes, i'm aware of the history. like i said, there has been about a bajillion books written on the same topic. i guess you haven't enlightened yourself as to the field and instead prefer to peddle national review stereotypes about 'typical blacks, they just don't help their cause do they!' dog-whistle bullshit.
i'm not sure that black working-class neighbourhoods do have more crime than white ones, not universally, anyway. how about all the meth heads in fresno? but, even still, the answer does not exactly seem hard to find: because white people, however poor, aren't discriminated against in the same way, and hence not disenfranchised and dejected to the same degree? what do you think it is, because black people have a gene allele that selects for rioting, or something?
Really?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
But you actually have no clue because your only interaction with them is when you walk down the street in minority neighborhoods, remember?Jay wrote:
No, they have a culture that spits on education and glorifies violence and crime, and thus they end up with a bunch of uneducated idiots with no prospects whose only hope at earning respect among their peers is from surviving prison. This has indeed bled over into white culture. I guess opposites attract though, because their culture is literally the exact opposite of the one you wish to personify, and yet you are going out of your way to defend it.uziq wrote:
the lockdown hasn't always been pointless. it is highly effective in almost every country that properly adopts it. how fucking arrogant can you be, a day after you pass 100,000 deaths in 4 months, that the 'lockdown is pointless'? meanwhile many countries with proper lockdown measures still have deaths in the dozens or low hundreds. i guess the excess 99,950 people's lives were pointless, anyway.
and, yes, i'm aware of the history. like i said, there has been about a bajillion books written on the same topic. i guess you haven't enlightened yourself as to the field and instead prefer to peddle national review stereotypes about 'typical blacks, they just don't help their cause do they!' dog-whistle bullshit.
i'm not sure that black working-class neighbourhoods do have more crime than white ones, not universally, anyway. how about all the meth heads in fresno? but, even still, the answer does not exactly seem hard to find: because white people, however poor, aren't discriminated against in the same way, and hence not disenfranchised and dejected to the same degree? what do you think it is, because black people have a gene allele that selects for rioting, or something?
i believe you jay. you know how they really live. didn't you hear biggie doing a rap battle in a stairwell in harlem once?Jay wrote:
Really?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
But you actually have no clue because your only interaction with them is when you walk down the street in minority neighborhoods, remember?Jay wrote:
No, they have a culture that spits on education and glorifies violence and crime, and thus they end up with a bunch of uneducated idiots with no prospects whose only hope at earning respect among their peers is from surviving prison. This has indeed bled over into white culture. I guess opposites attract though, because their culture is literally the exact opposite of the one you wish to personify, and yet you are going out of your way to defend it.
https://www.facebook.com/jay.schubert/v … 0497302343Larssen wrote:
Cause and effect jay. If that man wasn't needlessly murdered in such a disgusting way, you wouldn't have an entire neighbourhood rioting out in the streets. The anger of a mob is blind and in that moment of anarchy shit gets destroyed and stolen. Moreso by people who already despise the society they live in for whatever reason - especially if the murdered individual is perceived to be 'one of them'.
I think you're one negative encounter away from being the next central park karen. You're the biggest baby here with the least tolerance for feeling scared.uziq wrote:
i believe you jay. you know how they really live. didn't you hear biggie doing a rap battle in a stairwell in harlem once?Jay wrote:
Really?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
But you actually have no clue because your only interaction with them is when you walk down the street in minority neighborhoods, remember?
Last edited by Jay (2020-05-28 08:49:05)
drop the tough guy schtick. everyone here can see that you're consistently the biggest whiner and 'but m-m-my feelings on the matter are more important!' attitudes.Jay wrote:
I think you're one negative encounter away from being the next central park karen. You're the biggest baby here with the least tolerance for feeling scared.uziq wrote:
i believe you jay. you know how they really live. didn't you hear biggie doing a rap battle in a stairwell in harlem once?Jay wrote:
Really?
Go look up my previous posts. I've talked about it plenty in the past.uziq wrote:
'a destruction of trust'. 'a fuck you to everyone in society'.
welcome to the everyday perceptions of black folks in america. that's kind of the whole point, jay. on a daily basis they see 'fuck you's from all quarters. hence the irrational outlashing and the senseless violence/destruction. of course it's senseless: it's a boiling over. but you keep talking from the perspective of an offended 'civil society' when you are discussing people for whom their overwhelming experience is not one of belonging to the same civil society.
obviously people delight in looting and destruction. it's a tremendous release of energy and tension. do you really think their motivation is sheer pleasure? 'watching the world burn'?
why does none of your analysis ever go back to causes? you are only ever good at surface-level commentary. you talk about 'black culture' without even considering what possible forces or trends have led black culture in that direction; it's only ever descriptive, never diagnostic. 'blacks is as blacks does' is about as deep as you get.
You sure are spending a lot of time arguing against looting, and not arguing against police killing black people.Jay wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/jay.schubert/v … 0497302343Larssen wrote:
Cause and effect jay. If that man wasn't needlessly murdered in such a disgusting way, you wouldn't have an entire neighbourhood rioting out in the streets. The anger of a mob is blind and in that moment of anarchy shit gets destroyed and stolen. Moreso by people who already despise the society they live in for whatever reason - especially if the murdered individual is perceived to be 'one of them'.
Here, I downloaded the video and made it public.
I don't have any problem with getting angry. I don't have any problem with protesting. I have a problem when they cross the line and start looting and burning. Maybe that's an arbitrary line to some people. Maybe it's just things that are replaceable and covered by insurance. To me, it's a complete destruction of trust and a big fuck you to everyone in society. I'm mad so I'm going to burn shit. No, you're not mad. Burning shit is fun and you're taking advantage of the situation to anonymously destroy shit that other people built just because you can. There's nothing noble in it. There's pictures all over social media of people posing in front of burning buildings and laughing because they're having a good time.
I do understand it. I agree with them. They do face structural racism and a change is necessary. But do you think property destruction and looting helps change the racism or does it reinforce it? If the stereotype is that black people steal and break stuff, and then they go out and steal and break stuff, does that further the stereotype or deflate it?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
You sure are spending a lot of time arguing against looting, and not arguing against police killing black people.Jay wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/jay.schubert/v … 0497302343Larssen wrote:
Cause and effect jay. If that man wasn't needlessly murdered in such a disgusting way, you wouldn't have an entire neighbourhood rioting out in the streets. The anger of a mob is blind and in that moment of anarchy shit gets destroyed and stolen. Moreso by people who already despise the society they live in for whatever reason - especially if the murdered individual is perceived to be 'one of them'.
Here, I downloaded the video and made it public.
I don't have any problem with getting angry. I don't have any problem with protesting. I have a problem when they cross the line and start looting and burning. Maybe that's an arbitrary line to some people. Maybe it's just things that are replaceable and covered by insurance. To me, it's a complete destruction of trust and a big fuck you to everyone in society. I'm mad so I'm going to burn shit. No, you're not mad. Burning shit is fun and you're taking advantage of the situation to anonymously destroy shit that other people built just because you can. There's nothing noble in it. There's pictures all over social media of people posing in front of burning buildings and laughing because they're having a good time.
If you constantly tell people through words and actions that the society they live in does not respect their life, a little property destruction is about the best result you can ask for.
Do you understand the concept of the Black Lives Matter movement? Black Lives Matter too
I see it and I've seen it many times before in many different countries and contexts, including my own. You expect these people to still colour inside the lines, to 'protest peacefully', without significantly ruining people's days. Well, this isn't a climate protest.Jay wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/jay.schubert/v … 0497302343Larssen wrote:
Cause and effect jay. If that man wasn't needlessly murdered in such a disgusting way, you wouldn't have an entire neighbourhood rioting out in the streets. The anger of a mob is blind and in that moment of anarchy shit gets destroyed and stolen. Moreso by people who already despise the society they live in for whatever reason - especially if the murdered individual is perceived to be 'one of them'.
Here, I downloaded the video and made it public.
I don't have any problem with getting angry. I don't have any problem with protesting. I have a problem when they cross the line and start looting and burning. Maybe that's an arbitrary line to some people. Maybe it's just things that are replaceable and covered by insurance. To me, it's a complete destruction of trust and a big fuck you to everyone in society. I'm mad so I'm going to burn shit. No, you're not mad. Burning shit is fun and you're taking advantage of the situation to anonymously destroy shit that other people built just because you can. There's nothing noble in it. There's pictures all over social media of people posing in front of burning buildings and laughing because they're having a good time.
I think as long as the focus is on the destruction of property instead of the destruction of life, things will only get worse.Jay wrote:
I do understand it. I agree with them. They do face structural racism and a change is necessary. But do you think property destruction and looting helps change the racism or does it reinforce it? If the stereotype is that black people steal and break stuff, and then they go out and steal and break stuff, does that further the stereotype or deflate it?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
You sure are spending a lot of time arguing against looting, and not arguing against police killing black people.Jay wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/jay.schubert/videos/vb.1321681914/10222632115414523/?type=2&theater¬if_t=video_processed¬if_id=1590680497302343
Here, I downloaded the video and made it public.
I don't have any problem with getting angry. I don't have any problem with protesting. I have a problem when they cross the line and start looting and burning. Maybe that's an arbitrary line to some people. Maybe it's just things that are replaceable and covered by insurance. To me, it's a complete destruction of trust and a big fuck you to everyone in society. I'm mad so I'm going to burn shit. No, you're not mad. Burning shit is fun and you're taking advantage of the situation to anonymously destroy shit that other people built just because you can. There's nothing noble in it. There's pictures all over social media of people posing in front of burning buildings and laughing because they're having a good time.
If you constantly tell people through words and actions that the society they live in does not respect their life, a little property destruction is about the best result you can ask for.
Do you understand the concept of the Black Lives Matter movement? Black Lives Matter too
MLK effected change by peaceful protest and by putting respectable middle class people at the forefront of his movement, because that's who he wanted to represent him and his people. To white people he's a symbol of hope and something to be celebrated. To many black people, because nearly every educated black person has a copy of Malcolm X's autobiography in their library, he's a sellout. They want white America to change. They want power. And many of them want revenge. Like everything else in America, people have become polarized and taken opposite extreme positions. There's no meeting in the middle or easy fixes.
You're committing historical abuse. There were plenty of riots during the civil rights era. MLK and Gandhi's non-violent movements were the alternative to the violence and threats that other people in the Civil Rights movement and Indian Independence movement offered. The non-violent movements in both cases wouldn't have worked without the real alternative of mass and continued violence.Jay wrote:
MLK effected change by peaceful protest and by putting respectable middle class people at the forefront of his movement, because that's who he wanted to represent him and his people. To white people he's a symbol of hope and something to be celebrated. To many black people, because nearly every educated black person has a copy of Malcolm X's autobiography in their library, he's a sellout. They want white America to change. They want power. And many of them want revenge. Like everything else in America, people have become polarized and taken opposite extreme positions. There's no meeting in the middle or easy fixes.
Good post, Larssen but just one point...corporate chain stores in minority neighborhoods should in fact be the last places to get torched. Soulless and faceless corporations are willing to go into these places, take a chance, and hire locally . They help the community way more than the small "Mom and Pop" business owners Republicans speak so highly of. Corporate American deserves credit there and elsewhere too. It's a more complicated situation than many may assume.Larssen wrote:
The rioters mostly end up destroying property of in this case and as per a surface reading from my end - the 'white america' which they see as enablers or creators of systematic racism & policy brutality.
also in watts, didn't they burn their own neighbourhood? their own races' stores? then they tried to go to the korean-american part and found a bunch of store-owners sat on roofs with rifles.SuperJail Warden wrote:
Good post, Larssen but just one point...corporate chain stores in minority neighborhoods should in fact be the last places to get torched. Soulless and faceless corporations are willing to go into these places, take a chance, and hire locally . They help the community way more than the small "Mom and Pop" business owners Republicans speak so highly of. Corporate American deserves credit there and elsewhere too. It's a more complicated situation than many may assume.Larssen wrote:
The rioters mostly end up destroying property of in this case and as per a surface reading from my end - the 'white america' which they see as enablers or creators of systematic racism & policy brutality.
It's a lot more upbeat then their best song November Rain.RTHKI wrote:
It's too bad that song is played out at sporting events.
possibly/probably true. As I said it's only a surface reading, would have to delve into this in more detail & the context to really understand the violence.SuperJail Warden wrote:
Good post, Larssen but just one point...corporate chain stores in minority neighborhoods should in fact be the last places to get torched. Soulless and faceless corporations are willing to go into these places, take a chance, and hire locally . They help the community way more than the small "Mom and Pop" business owners Republicans speak so highly of. Corporate American deserves credit there and elsewhere too. It's a more complicated situation than many may assume.Larssen wrote:
The rioters mostly end up destroying property of in this case and as per a surface reading from my end - the 'white america' which they see as enablers or creators of systematic racism & policy brutality.
