Pages: 1 … 135 136 137 138 139 … 401

 

2020-05-13 18:40:05
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+641|3961

DesertFox- wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

I've had similar discussions with people who "don't follow politics" but have remarked, "why are you so angry about [various examples of blatant corruption/self-dealing/cronyism/incompetence]?" It does seem to be a case of if you're not angry, you aren't paying attention. So many people handwave away the unprecedented corrupt behavior by saying things like "all politicians lie" or "both sides are extreme" while citing no specific examples to those claims. It's a sort of eNlIgHtEnEd CeNtRiSm that allows them to remove the onus of knowing things and just getting that quick smug self-satisfaction. Even the Republicans I know who allegedly aren't pleased with the administration (and they shouldn't be, because a competent guy would've been way more effective) still just share Fox News things about hardcore leftists like *checks notes* Nancy Pelosi.

I have been interested to get in another argument recently because I've become very curious, similar to something that happened recently on here, to know what these right wingers consider "left". It was odd enough that CNN got so much flak from Trump and his ilk as a network that is pretty middle of the road to favorable for enabling him. Pretty much all TV news is garbage and generally, they don't seem to be super knowledgeable about politics, so I'm not expecting to hear anything like Jacobin or Current Affairs name-dropped.
There's no such thing as left corporate media. CNN and MSNBC might have people advocate higher taxes and a more generous social safety net but they will never have people advocate for nationalizing industries and resources. They will not advocate in favor of corporate governance reform.
Oh, of course. The idea of a corporate left is pretty incongruous, and that is pretty much why people who only watch TV seem to be way out of step with reality. MSNBC and such are firmly in the lib camp rather than the left.
I think people latch onto identity politics and work their way back from there. I mean the democrats, socialist, and CNN are in favor of LGBT right. So in some people's mind that means they are all the same. Just go through all of the social issues and the three of those groups line up almost perfectly.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2020-05-13 18:50:18
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:


There's no such thing as left corporate media. CNN and MSNBC might have people advocate higher taxes and a more generous social safety net but they will never have people advocate for nationalizing industries and resources. They will not advocate in favor of corporate governance reform.
Oh, of course. The idea of a corporate left is pretty incongruous, and that is pretty much why people who only watch TV seem to be way out of step with reality. MSNBC and such are firmly in the lib camp rather than the left.
I think people latch onto identity politics and work their way back from there. I mean the democrats, socialist, and CNN are in favor of LGBT right. So in some people's mind that means they are all the same. Just go through all of the social issues and the three of those groups line up almost perfectly.
The downside of big tent politics is all nuance gets drowned out.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-05-14 01:29:16
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6348|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

the EU was absolutely a grand vision. it was a huge idealistic undertaking.

the problem is it is now a neoliberal technocratic apparatus doing everything in the name of 'common sense', which, of course, reflects only neoliberal common sense.
This is why the average person hates it "shut up and pay your taxes for us to spend, we know better than you".
Now its collapsing in on itself.
It should never have gone beyond a trading bloc.
Fuck Israel
2020-05-14 01:30:29
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6348|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

The downside of big tent politics is all nuance gets drowned out.
Whats the alternative? You expect your narrow interests to be pandered to?

A libertarian utopia doesn't work, so don't start down that track.
Fuck Israel
2020-05-14 02:35:44
uziq
Member
+496|3694

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

the EU was absolutely a grand vision. it was a huge idealistic undertaking.

the problem is it is now a neoliberal technocratic apparatus doing everything in the name of 'common sense', which, of course, reflects only neoliberal common sense.
This is why the average person hates it "shut up and pay your taxes for us to spend, we know better than you".
Now its collapsing in on itself.
It should never have gone beyond a trading bloc.
institutions develop their own codes and orthodoxies, it's nothing new. it's not even entirely undesirable.

the EU hasn't been responsible for the financial shocks of the last two decades. it has saddled itself with a cumbersome single currency that is a weight around their neck when dealing with vast asymmetries between its western/eastern and northern/southern states.

the EU has been responsible for insisting on the same set of solutions both times, which has pissed a lot of people off and given many others food for thought.

larssen's notion that it's the pinnacle of international relations and the only possible way the future world order could align is borderline indoctrination, to me. i'm pro-EU, i voted remain (and there's no secret here), but the current political orthodoxy on the continent isn't working for the vast majority of people. the EU is to blame for the success of the far-right as much as anyone else.
2020-05-14 02:46:14
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

The downside of big tent politics is all nuance gets drowned out.
Whats the alternative? You expect your narrow interests to be pandered to?

A libertarian utopia doesn't work, so don't start down that track.
More than two options would be nice.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-05-14 06:00:41
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+641|3961
Almost three million people filed unemployment claims last week, the Labor Department reported Thursday, bringing the two-month tally to more than 36 million.
Over 10% of the total U.S. population or 20ish% of working adults. With the virus showing no signs of slowing down and no blah blah blah from the White House, expect this to get worse.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2020-05-14 06:16:10
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6348|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

The downside of big tent politics is all nuance gets drowned out.
Whats the alternative? You expect your narrow interests to be pandered to?

A libertarian utopia doesn't work, so don't start down that track.
More than two options would be nice.
Feel free to come up with one.

In the meantime don't hold your breath waiting for the state governor to knock on your door and ask how he can best serve your personal interests.
Fuck Israel
2020-05-14 06:23:01
uziq
Member
+496|3694

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Almost three million people filed unemployment claims last week, the Labor Department reported Thursday, bringing the two-month tally to more than 36 million.
Over 10% of the total U.S. population or 20ish% of working adults. With the virus showing no signs of slowing down and no blah blah blah from the White House, expect this to get worse.
yep this is precisely what jay’s lot don’t understand. it will only get worse without direct and widespread organization. it will get much worse, in fact. there is literally nothing hampering or slowing the spread of the disease to the rest of the population.

relying on vague spitballing and unreliable tests to say ‘most of the population have had it already’ (they haven’t) is wishful thinking at best, wilful ignorance at worst.

being in public or at work will mean constantly thinking about contagion. becoming unwell. having had it won’t be a safeguard, in the medium and long term. you will get it again, possibly worse because you’ve had it before (possibly less severe, too; we don’t know).

you can either hope your government gets organised or become inured to mass death as a fact of life. a cost of ‘business as usual’. but a vietnam every quarter is not to be sniffed at.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-14 06:31:47)

2020-05-14 06:25:01
Larssen
Member
+99|2129

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

The downside of big tent politics is all nuance gets drowned out.
Whats the alternative? You expect your narrow interests to be pandered to?

A libertarian utopia doesn't work, so don't start down that track.
More than two options would be nice.
I get that, but in multiparty democracy people still loathe the fact that coalition formation is necessary. Some important or less important party priorities have to be cast to the wayside for government to be possible. Many have a hard time accepting this, voting for increasingly authoritarian leadership.

There's quite a number of people who just seem incapable of getting along with others. From the playground to the work environment to politics.
2020-05-14 06:31:03
uziq
Member
+496|3694

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

i think some supranational frameworks need to be in place, for e.g. to combat capital flight and systemic tax evasion. it’s just ridiculous that a corporation can take a 40% share of an industry like book selling in the UK, file billions of £ in sales in a year, and then offshore their operation and pay crumbs in tax. the system stinks. as for denigrating local politics and ‘horizontalism’ as antiquated: no. wrong. society needs to dust itself off and move on from this ‘there is no such thing as society’ technocratic neoliberalism. it has done untold harm to communities, not only in depriving them economically, but in destroying the social fabric of life. we do need to re-establish meaningful local politics and relations. the neoliberals are too quick to project as if we will soon be one world family under their benevolent form of administration.
The ethno-nationalist far-right wing are the people with the will to fix this.
you’re totally, categorically wrong. almost 30 years of left thinking have been variously concerned with localism, horizontalism, people’s assemblies, grassroots activism, etc.

you think that because you’re only inclined to pay attention and read the racialist view. don’t make such ridiculous statements when you are quite literally clueless on the matter.
moving on from your illiteracy and ignorance, here's something else that the 'ethno-nationalist far-right wing' evidently have the will to do:

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/n7ww … -take-down

Racists have published a hate-filled database targeting white women dating black and brown men as "traitors" – and some are being harassed online.
wonderful!
2020-05-14 06:40:07
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+641|3961
I can't imagine what it would be like to spend so much time on the internet hating women.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2020-05-14 06:40:49
Larssen
Member
+99|2129
When incel meets racist
2020-05-14 07:08:31
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+641|3961
Health officials are looking into a rare inflammatory syndrome and how it could be impacting children during the coronavirus pandemic.

Now 15 states, including New York, are investigating cases that could be linked to Kawasaki disease ⁠– a rare inflammatory condition that often impacts children aged five years or younger ⁠– and toxic shock syndrome, Governor Andrew Cuomo said during his press briefing on Wednesday.
...
About 60 per cent of the 102 cases in New York tested positive for the coronavirus. Of those cases, 70 per cent were admitted into the ICU and 19 per cent resulted in intubation.
More fake panic from the media.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2020-05-14 07:13:51
uziq
Member
+496|3694
yep, i posted about this a few pages ago. been reported in italy, japan, the UK and america. a young kid died of it in the UK.
2020-05-14 07:19:02
Larssen
Member
+99|2129
Honestly though the syndrome is so incredibly rare I don't think it's coincidence this is suddenly making headlines during the corona crisis. Under normal circumstances I doubt it would generate as much attention.
2020-05-14 07:21:59
uziq
Member
+496|3694
it’s definitely not a coincidence. it’s associated with the inflammatory response. respiratory diseases like covid are also associated with massive inflammatory response. it’s common for young people who aren’t affected by the primary disease to suffer serious side effects of such immune system activity, such as cytokine storms etc. the body starts to combat itself.

rick bright is testifying right now to congress. should be very interesting. wait for jay’s predictable dismissal.
2020-05-14 15:26:08
Larssen
Member
+99|2129
So whereas here face masks will be required in public transport and there's a limit for train, metro & bus capacity, bars and restaurants only allowed to open if they follow the rules and guidelines set up by our government, where people are fined for ignoring social distancing - I take to the internet and see bars and restaurants in the US packed full of people.

85000 dead and counting. 20% of the working population applying for financial aid...

I knew that in the US it would be even worse but Jay you might want to start looking out for yourself because this is going to get a whole lot worse still. There's going to be a second wave in fall and seems like not enough people over there give a fuck.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-05-14 15:28:14)

2020-05-14 15:39:42
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6979|Cinncinatti
Well 85k is a small number and the shutdowns are the dems fault so no fault is on the right.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
2020-05-14 15:47:00
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5785|Toronto
I'd also like to add that it's survival of the fittest and americans are all rational people who fiercely value freedom and self reliance and would gladly take up arms if they can't go to the bar and suck on cheap domestic beer.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2020-05-14 16:05:17
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6874|949

people on the libertarian subreddits are legit comparing the COVID freedumb protesters with Rosa Parks. Apparently this is an affront on our right to peaceful assembly and free association, and to protest that there is no right to peaceful assembly and free association, they are....peacefully assembling and associating.

It's very telling that the people who supposedly value natural rights don't even understand what they are.
2020-05-15 03:08:03
uziq
Member
+496|3694
The Trump administration has repeatedly claimed that the US is “leading the world” with its response to the pandemic, but it does not seem to be going in any direction the world wants to follow.

Across Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America, views of the US handling of the coronavirus crisis are uniformly negative and range from horror through derision to sympathy. Donald Trump’s musings from the White House briefing room, particularly his thoughts on injecting disinfectant, have drawn the attention of the planet.

“Over more than two centuries, the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger,” the columnist Fintan O’Toole wrote in the Irish Times. “But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the US until now: pity.”

...

A poll in France last week found Merkel to be far and away the most trusted world leader. Just 2% had confidence Trump was leading the world in the right direction. Only Boris Johnson and Xi Jinping inspired less faith.

A survey this week by the British Foreign Policy Group found 28% of Britons trusted the US to act responsibly on the world stage, a drop of 13 percentage points since January, with the biggest drop in confidence coming among Conservative voters.

Dacian Cioloș, a former prime minister of Romania who now leads the Renew Europe group in the European parliament, captured a general European view this week as the latest statistics on deaths in the US were reported.

“Post-truth communication techniques used by rightwing populism movements simply do not work to beat Covid-19,” he told the Guardian. “And we see that populism cost lives.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … ld-leaders

god that quote is relevant to the last 140 pages of trying to bring around certain numbskulls to a basic grasp with reality. 'i've been right all along' sounds an awful lot like trump's claims that the 'USA is doing the best in the world'.

the rest of the article is grimy hilarious reading. leaders in the balkans queuing up to talk about 'disarray' in the white house. nigeria putting out medical bulletins to its population to explicitly counter-act trump's health comments. brazil's leading conservative paper claiming that trump's acting with 'disdain' towards the virus has 'cost thousands of lives'. how has America fallen so low as to be in company with that lot?

the UK isn't any better either, but we've still got a way to fall yet before our leaders start encouraging protests against the lockdown measures they've previously promoted.

best of all, trump has been a unique boon to china. has any US president ever scored such an immense own goal?

“Only by making Americans hate China can they make sure that the public might overlook the fact that Trump’s team is stained with the blood of Americans,” said an English-language Global Times editorial late last month.

Its editor, Hu Xijin, tweeted: “US system used to be appealing to many Chinese people. But through the pandemic, Chinese saw US government’s incompetence in outbreak control, disregard for life and its overt lies. Washington’s political halo has little left.”

China’s failure to cooperate fully with the WHO and its heavy-handed diplomacy has won Beijing few friends, despite its dispatch of medical assistance around the world. But the German news weekly Der Spiegel argued that Trump had single-handedly managed to spare Beijing the worst of the global consequences for its failings.

“For a while, it looked like the outbreak of the coronavirus would throw China back by light years,” the magazine argued in an editorial. “But now it is US president Donald Trump who has to spend day after day in a stuffy White House press room explaining to the world why his country can’t get a grip on the pandemic.”

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-15 03:21:43)

2020-05-15 05:58:28
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6348|eXtreme to the maX
The average asian would still prefer to live in the west over grossly overpopulated and totalitarian asia.

The CCP claiming otherwise doesn't change it.
Fuck Israel
2020-05-15 06:43:03
uziq
Member
+496|3694
what the hell is ‘the average asian’? lmao. what exactly constitutes ‘totalitarian asia’? ffs.

china has the highest approval ratings of any government in the world, so far as its own citizens are concerned. outside looking in, we criticise and call it terrifying — which it is. but the citizens love their government more than they desire to be elsewhere. the chinese are extremely proud of their success and transformation.

check this ipsos mori survey.
https://assets.weforum.org/editor/large_H5GdXwYeBJaR5rMV2vXqQA29g15MT8GXCFkH0YSwBQI.png

do you think koreans and japanese would rather be western? i think you need to learn a thing or two about their own extremely hermetic and traditional world views. in their own ways they habitually despise western customs and are only uneasily allied with us to play the world game.

to whom can you be referring? hong kongers? taiwanese? other explicitly anti-chinese? they’re quite content where they are: they just want to be left alone to do it. indochina and vietnam? yes they love america in laos and cambodia as much as in saigon.

i'm sorry to say, but it's like that journal piece i posted by a chinese ex-bureaucrat: america in the age of trump has been a disaster for liberalism/pro-western opinion in asia. the conservatives there are riding high. trump is a godsend to them. america is most definitely not any longer the 'shining beacon' to which the developing world's downtrodden populace aspire to migrate. it increasingly looks like a xenophobic, racist society led by an intellectually handicapped child.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-15 06:53:40)

2020-05-15 07:00:17
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England
Chart looks almost inversely proportional to Ability to Complain about the current situation. I'm sure North Korea is damn near 99% approval.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

 

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