BF2S Forums Pandemic thread

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I think a majority of the country would be willing to sign off on massive government spending to restore confidence in the economy and society at large. We just have a very vocal minority that vetoes whatever. I boldened the phrase 'restore confidence' for good reason. Anyone who grew up watching the History Channel will tell you that the New Deal didn't end the Great Depression. That's true but the New Deal helped restore confidence in the system and made people feel like their concerns were being addressed and their best interest was at heart. Nothing is being done to restore confidence in the system at the moment. Our executive political leadership is fundamentally incapable of providing the support we need.

How much of it is politics and how much is actual fear? The media is still in full #resist mode and is scaring the ever living shit out of everyone by dwelling on the outlier cases. I mean, they do this regularly for ratings, but now it's in hyperdrive and they have a captive audience.

Trump's big thing was the economy, so, politically it's in the Democrats interest to extend the shut down for as long as possible to damage him. Notice they just proposed to extend the extra $600/mo through January? We're one of the few job sites open right now and we can't find electricians that are willing to work because they're making more sitting on the bench.

Right now they're delaying reopening as leverage for a bailout. Once they secure it I think we'll start getting back to normal, with some caution.

The media doesn't need to do anything to scare people beyond reporting on things like nursing homes with 80 people dead or hospital trailers full of dead bodies. Look at what happened to Italy and Spain. Was European media collaborating to bring Trump down too?

Bailout or not, people are not going to resume life as normal. I mentioned this before, but I don't expect schools to reopen in September. There has been zero guidance as to how to prepare and manage schools, zero aid offered too. People see this and it doesn't give them confidence that their kids are going to be safe going to school in a few months. Now repeat this along with every other industry and and service and you end up with the same thing. No one knows what to do because the executive branch is trying to make it look like nothing is happening. And people don't accept that.

The executive branch doesn't run our school districts. It also doesn't run our businesses. I know you're a big fan of the imperial presidency, but there's a big divide between what you think is possible and what is reality.

The funniest part to me, is that after 4 years of calling Trump an authoritarian, the same people are now complaining... that he's not  authoritarian enough. And even if he was, they would oppose whatever he wanted anyway.

No, best left to states and their governors.

no, definitely not best left to states and their governors. Why have 50 entities fighting for the same resources with the same goals?

The federal government absolutely needs to step in and help with a response on testing capabilities and PPE. Once the states have the resources they need, yes, they should roll out region-specific plans.

No one is complaining Trump is not authoritarian enough. People are complaining because he is trying to pretend the virus doesn't exist in a vain attempt to wish it away. His inaction is a direct cause of prolonged shut downs.

uziq wrote:

people accused him of authoritarianism because he dismantled entire departments and task forces. intentionally left many posts vacant. he's shuffled and reshuffled his inner white house circle just about more than any other president in recent history. he governs like a mob boss, expecting fealty and on the basis of personal favours. like an authoritarian.

that he is refusing to use his considerable executive power to take the lead in a national crisis, one of the few scenarios in which it would be justified, is doubly damning.

it's like you live in some alice in wonderland world where the opposite is always in effect.

How is it authoritarian to dismantle departments and task forces? As the chief executive isn't it his job to determine whether or not said departments and task forces serve a purpose that is in line with his policy goals?

Yes, he reshuffled his white house inner circle. So what? Again, that's his prerogative and it doesn't make him an authoritarian.

He left posts vacant, sure. Some he didn't want to fill, but it's mostly because life has become very uncomfortable for people who volunteer to work in his administration. Normally, people line up out the door for positions in the executive branch but it's not happening with this administration. People who work for him are being snubbed socially, they've been attacked in public,, chased out of restaurants,, are subject to harassment, and are having their post-government careers threatened for having worked for Trump on their resume. You are attacking him for something the American left has created. Bravo!

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

people accused him of authoritarianism because he dismantled entire departments and task forces. intentionally left many posts vacant. he's shuffled and reshuffled his inner white house circle just about more than any other president in recent history. he governs like a mob boss, expecting fealty and on the basis of personal favours. like an authoritarian.

that he is refusing to use his considerable executive power to take the lead in a national crisis, one of the few scenarios in which it would be justified, is doubly damning.

it's like you live in some alice in wonderland world where the opposite is always in effect.

How is it authoritarian to dismantle departments and task forces? As the chief executive isn't it his job to determine whether or not said departments and task forces serve a purpose that is in line with his policy goals?

Yes, he reshuffled his white house inner circle. So what? Again, that's his prerogative and it doesn't make him an authoritarian.

He left posts vacant, sure. Some he didn't want to fill, but it's mostly because life has become very uncomfortable for people who volunteer to work in his administration. Normally, people line up out the door for positions in the executive branch but it's not happening with this administration. People who work for him are being snubbed socially, they've been attacked in public,, chased out of restaurants,, are subject to harassment, and are having their post-government careers threatened for having worked for Trump on their resume. You are attacking him for something the American left has created. Bravo!

he gutted government departments, undermined others, left others rudderless.

he installed a bunch of his friends and relatives in senior posts, instead, people with zero expertise and certainly zero job experience. people whom he can 'trust', people who know he will be 'very upset' if they step out of line and take too much initiative.

like an authoritarian.

isn't jared kushner one of the very public faces of the coronavirus response team at the moment? jared kushner?? O K

it's the left's fault, sure. you really are hopeless.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-13 17:32:31)

few people he feels he can trust? is that because half of them are now in jail because of federal crimes?

speaking of, 2,000 ex-DoJ staff have signed a letter accusing william barr of abusing the justice system he now heads. is that the left's fault too? trump has turned previously independent wings and institutions of government into a bunch of compliant mobsters. and you want us to have sympathy for him?

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

people accused him of authoritarianism because he dismantled entire departments and task forces. intentionally left many posts vacant. he's shuffled and reshuffled his inner white house circle just about more than any other president in recent history. he governs like a mob boss, expecting fealty and on the basis of personal favours. like an authoritarian.

that he is refusing to use his considerable executive power to take the lead in a national crisis, one of the few scenarios in which it would be justified, is doubly damning.

it's like you live in some alice in wonderland world where the opposite is always in effect.

How is it authoritarian to dismantle departments and task forces? As the chief executive isn't it his job to determine whether or not said departments and task forces serve a purpose that is in line with his policy goals?

Yes, he reshuffled his white house inner circle. So what? Again, that's his prerogative and it doesn't make him an authoritarian.

He left posts vacant, sure. Some he didn't want to fill, but it's mostly because life has become very uncomfortable for people who volunteer to work in his administration. Normally, people line up out the door for positions in the executive branch but it's not happening with this administration. People who work for him are being snubbed socially, they've been attacked in public,, chased out of restaurants,, are subject to harassment, and are having their post-government careers threatened for having worked for Trump on their resume. You are attacking him for something the American left has created. Bravo!

working for him is also uncomfortable because he has a tendency to fire people who don't agree with him. He literally fires people because of how he feels. But yeah, people who work for him are getting attacked in public just because they work for him. Not because of their own worldview, or their own fingerprints on hateful policies. Nope, it's because they dared work for Donald Trump. I mean, look at Corey Lewandowski, The Mooch, Omarosa, John Kelly, Mattis, Tillerson - all outcasts in the political elite now, chased out of restaurants and kicked out of their social clubs....or something.

uziq wrote:

few people he feels he can trust? is that because half of them are now in jail because of federal crimes?

speaking of, 2,000 ex-DoJ staff have signed a letter accusing william barr of abusing the justice system he now heads. is that the left's fault too? trump has turned previously independent wings and institutions of government into a bunch of compliant mobsters. and you want us to have sympathy for him?

No, I don't care if you have sympathy for him. I'm simply trying to show you that your views are hyperpartisan and come from only a single side. You hate Trump, but why? What has he done to make you hate him? He's mean to reporters? He tweets too much?

You're carrying water for the previous administration and all the people that have joined the #resistence because they suddenly found themselves outside the sphere of influence. Trump sucks, but aside from his personal foibles, he's been a fuck ton less dictatorial than Obama was.

i don't care about the previous administration. it's just amazing to me that you can defend trump's style of presidency.

also who lowered the tone of the national discourse? people being 'attacked' for their beliefs? where did that come from? i don't recall the democrat party being so rancorous, hate-filled and violent during the 'dictatorial' obama years. you'd think it would be, if they were led by a dictator, and all.

the actions of barr, McConnell, et al. with the justice system and supreme court have been nothing short of shameful. your system of government and justice look badly compromised to an outside observer. 'hyperpartisan'? lol ok. i don't have a horse in the race so i'm unsure how i can be 'partisan'. i'd never vote democrat and i was never a fanboy for obama in any way, either (my mod thread got posted the other day in which i was banned for a post shitting on obama). isn't that party currently trying to pass more bills of massive corporate relief?

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-13 17:46:20)

I promise you that money and connections matter more than the administration you work for.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I promise you that money and connections matter more than the administration you work for.

Connections, yes, and it will only last as long as a Democrat is denied the White House. It's how these things work.

To be fair to Jay's anecdotal villains, I might hesitate to hire an associate of a famous con artist as well.

uziq wrote:

so what's your point? trump is a disaster and his failed leadership is directly culpable for your worst performance in the world with coronavirus.

i don't have to be a democrat to point that out. you can kvetch about their corporate bailouts all you want. i don't support it in any way.

I'm just not willing to dump all the blame in his lap. That would be letting far too many people off the hook.

His public face is one of bravado. "No big deal." "Let's move forward."

This is the correct way to behave when you are in a leadership role. You're supposed to be upbeat and optimistic, even when the world is falling apart. Once a leader starts panicking the show is over.

It's just so jarring because he's being contrasted against the media who act like the world is ending.

it's amazing to me how much trump gets away with. he's like the political version of OJ simpson. with a certain demographic the guy is just untouchable.

he's a multiple bankrupt and has been filmed on camera being misogynist, implicated in several sex cover-ups, etc. okay, fair enough. let's not moralise.

half of his election team and inner circle are in jail. they are provably crooks. ok, fair enough. not guilty by association.

the guy denied the virus was an issue for the first 3 months and did nothing. okay, fair enough, it's a complex and disorienting event.

he uses press conferences on covid to talk about tv ratings, to undermine his own experts, eventually sidelining them altogether. what's going on?

never mind, you don't need those pesky experts. the guy in control making the decisions advises people to inject sunlight into their bodies and drink bleach.

he retorts to an asian reporter that she should 'go ask china' about covid and storms out. spends the next two days on twitter fulminating.

meanwhile fauci testifies to the senate that the current white house strategy is dangerous. the CDC guidelines have been binned. a top scientific aide from within the white house is whistleblowing on how for the last two years he has had to award government contracts and grants based on personal favours/politics, and ignoring scientific advice.

but trump is just really stressed, guys. you are all being really mean to him. he just has so few people around he can trust