BF2S Forums Pandemic thread

uziq wrote:

what about bat droppings getting into a food supply that is unrelated to meat? what about contact between an ‘exotic’ (your word) carrier and a domestic animal? what if it mutated and hopped to a horse, or a dog?

frankly there’s no reason people should keep dogs, they carry lethal diseases ... bla bla bla.

Thats great and all but umpteen of the most recent zoonotic pandemics have been caused directly by people consuming exotic animals.
I'm not sure whats radical about saying maybe we should stop consuming exotic animals in this context.

You're sounding more and more like Jay 'we shouldn't pay attention to traffic lights, if we're going to have a car crash there's nothing we can do about it'.

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

what about bat droppings getting into a food supply that is unrelated to meat? what about contact between an ‘exotic’ (your word) carrier and a domestic animal? what if it mutated and hopped to a horse, or a dog?

frankly there’s no reason people should keep dogs, they carry lethal diseases ... bla bla bla.

Thats great and all but umpteen of the most recent zoonotic pandemics have been caused directly by people consuming exotic animals.
I'm not sure whats radical about saying maybe we should stop consuming exotic animals in this context.

You're sounding more and more like Jay 'we shouldn't pay attention to traffic lights, if we're going to have a car crash there's nothing we can do about it'.

no, i'm saying: what is more cost-effective and feasible? transforming the way we interact with the rest of the biosphere, in toto, around the entire world, or devising better pandemic-response systems?

i'm not saying that pandemics are a fait accompli that must be allowed to take their course. i'm talking about the allocation of resources and best strategy. in a globalised world, there are so many ways that a zoonotic infection can make the leap. you can never eradicate all of them.

i don't know what you're talking about saying the last few infections have come from people eating exotic animals. really? SARS wasn't. american swine flu wasn't. any number of other infections weren't, like zika.

most of the world can't live without leather products, though, or chicken and pork, or dairy produce.

only a tiny minority ever eat bat soup in china. how often do you eat foie gras? beluga caviar? no one disagrees that we can do without it -- but it isn't the problem.

ebola is an example of a zoonotic infection that was likely food borne, which suits your argument. what stopped it becoming a pandemic? it broke out in a remote region of the world. it's form of transmission was inimical to western culture and standards (i.e. close contact, especially with the dead). there were very few international flights or trade to the region. these variables are just as important to pandemic response and control as the origin of the zoonotic transfer.

in the early days of coronavirus we did no screening in airports or ports. nothing whatsoever. you think that can't be improved? no technology, no testing, no surveys, no instructions on self-isolation.

we can do a lot better in pandemic preparation and response. good luck convincing the world to stop interacting with animals in any way, shape or form. we've been here before, on page 64. and page 44. and page 23. and page 18. and page 7. and page 2.

uziq wrote:

good luck convincing the world to stop interacting with animals in any way, shape or form.

nope still haven't said that, just bats pretty well.

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

i don't know what you're talking about saying the last few infections have come from people eating exotic animals. really? SARS wasn't. american swine flu wasn't. any number of other infections weren't, like zika.

Thats why I said zoonotic pandemics, doesn't inclue non-zoonotic ones, obviously.

Dilbert_X wrote:

umpteen of the most recent zoonotic pandemics

Chinese keep civet cats to eat them
https://www.who.int/ith/diseases/sars/en/

Ebola - Quite likely from people eating bats again.

AIDS - Also people eating bushmeat

if you’re going to be pedantic, stop calling them zoonotic ‘pandemics’. they have all been epidemics.

you seem confused about what zoonotic means. it doesn’t mean ‘foodborne’.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-01 06:45:42)

uziq wrote:

you seem confused about what zoonotic means. it doesn’t mean ‘foodborne’.

Never said it was.

I dunno sjw and dilbert seem convinced you can have total government control anywhere + perfect sanitation. Added bonus is it makes it easy to blame a people for a disease. Covid-19 isn't the problem, it's them chinese.

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Imagine being so committed to not hurting Chinese feelings that you attempt smooth over the differences between Ebola and Bat Tuberculosis.

the chinese are riding high off this experience. i don’t think anyone is hurting their feelings. i’d be saying the same thing about a pandemic that originated in brazil or iran. the solution has to make sense.

The solution is to stop putting certain animals into your mouth. New Yorkers are surrounded by pigeons, squirrels, and rats. They are getting taken out by Bat Flu and not squirrel AIDS, rat Ebola, or bird flu.

Meanwhile we are just supposed to ignore the Chinese people sticking bats into their mouths because it would hurt the feeling of Asian acquaintances we have.

Larssen wrote:

I dunno sjw and dilbert seem convinced you can have total government control anywhere + perfect sanitation. Added bonus is it makes it easy to blame a people for a disease. Covid-19 isn't the problem, it's them chinese.

chinese sanitation could undoubtedly improve, i don't question that for a second. though there is a casual elision in the minds of people like dilbert between 'wet market' and the worst most unsanitary conditions. most wet markets are indistinguishable from farmer's markets in the west. it's a place to get fresh produce. most people in china get their food from wet markets. that's a lot of people and a lot of potential for unsanitary conditions.

these things are going to start somewhere. they always do. we have weathered them better in the past because we've been more isolated, more spread out. a city-state could isolate and shut its gates. people weren't flying from continent to continent in a matter of hours for business.

the best way through and out, like in so many climate change arguments, is with more and better technology. more and better policy. dilbert's logic leads to us essentially divorcing ourselves from the biosphere, and the entire branch of mammalian life that foster and spread these RNA viruses.

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The solution is to stop putting certain animals into your mouth. New Yorkers are surrounded by pigeons, squirrels, and rats. They are getting taken out by Bat Flu and not squirrel AIDS, rat Ebola, or bird flu.

the last major outbreak of a flu-type illness globally, prior to covid, was a major outbreak of swine flu in the united states. 60 million cases, 250,000 hospitalisations, 13,000 dead.

stop talking.

We shouldn't be eating pigs either. Another disgusting thing to eat.

And the "wrap it in bacon" movement must be stopped.

zoonotic infections come from humans interacting with animals. as in pig farming. for multiple purposes.

i have been saying this over and over and over and over and still you're obsessed with other cultures' diets.

do you think a virus would survive all the nitrate treatment, chlorination, and ultimately the high heat of being cooked in an american home?

you people should really get some basic fucking education on this matter before you spout off with your racist nonsense.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-01 07:20:26)

ok, so again, your best solution seems to be to stop people eating any form of animal life that can carry a zoonotic infection.

best of luck.

also spelunking is literally a hobby. do you even know what you're saying? yes people would come into contact with bat populations, or their guano or whatever, for the purposes of a hobby. bat guano, incidentally, is a huge industrial product/export in some places, or has been historically.

The 19th-century guano trade played a pivotal role in the development of modern input-intensive farming, but its demand began to decline after the discovery of the Haber–Bosch process of nitrogen fixing led to the production of synthetic fertilizers. The demand for guano spurred the human colonization of remote bird islands in many parts of the world, resulting in some of the first examples of U.S. colonialism and the expansion of the British Empire.

but people should stop eating bats!!!

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-01 07:22:11)