BF2S Forums Where are all the whiny peaceful "Enlightened" European now?

i agree, in a globalised world it makes most sense for us all to stay in our borders, only eat our own local produce, and for every country to isolate and protect its labour markets. even better if we can produce our own electronics, automobiles, heavy industry, chemicals and raw materials, etc, completely self-sufficiently -- just like north korea, really.

on the bright side, the ozPhone will be a great success, i'm sure. you've got plenty of the rare earth minerals. just make sure you don't use it to communicate with anyone from outside your race, language, or national border -- it'll only contaminate the country.

Dilbert_X wrote:

If people stayed within their national borders and traded most of the problems of the last 2,000 years would not have occurred.

if only people had stayed within their own borders for the last 2,000 years! we wouldn't have problems like the french huguenot refugees bringing with them advanced craft techniques to the UK, or the dutch orange revolutionaries their advanced hydroponic crop-farming techniques which literally changed the food-supply of countries like the UK by upscaling its potential yields tenfold; or the transmission of the body of western knowledge across networks of medieval monasteries, thanks to travelling and itinerant scribes, scholars and churchmen; or the modern equivalent of vast, international collaborative science projects like CERN, or any current-day university department, really; or the rise of great commercial powers like the hanseatic league in northern europe or the City of London. it's not nationalism that has caused the biggest wars, it's polish plumbers working abroad for 15 years.

everyone stay put in closed-off, hermetic little ethnostates: your rival nation next door will trade you their best material and techniques! mutual self-interest and xenophobic mistrust is the best basis for prosperity -- just look at the UK and europe's imminent new trading relation.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-27 04:32:20)

I can understand the frustration of white Europeans when dealing with the issues that non-whites are bringing to their countries. Especially when it comes to services and taxes.

I teach children and am a brown person. Whenever non-white kids are aggressive and refuse to work, I too think "why are you people even here if you don't want to work"? And while it is true that white kids can also have issues, white kids as a whole are better students. And the issues with non-white students are localized mostly among African Americans and some Hispanics. The Hispanics who are into hip-hop culture at least. The more into Hispanic or white culture Hispanic students are into, the better students they are.

And Dilbert was right when he said most people don't actually contribute anything to the tax base. The disrespectful black kids are a net drain. And it doesn't help anyone to pretend otherwise.

I have some more stray observations if you want them.

i am convinced dilbert is beyond any sort of rational discussion and 'debate', he really is a limited and narrow-minded man.

he has his 'pessimistic realism' and 'scientific objectivity' like jay once had his rand and now has his national review. the lady's not for turning, etc.

if you present him with a study, reams of studies, meta-studies of studies, or a report, an official report, a government report, even, he'll dig down into it and wheedle out the most trivial methodological quibble; and then, having thrown it out, substitute it with the wildest most insupportable generalizations of his own. he's a bigot given to tabloid wild tales who goes over any countervailing opinion with a magnifying glass. these people aren't out to discuss anything, they're merely howling into a void to quell their own fears. watch out! china! jews! moselmen! poles! east anglians! people from the next valley over!  mummy!!!

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

And Dilbert was right when he said most people don't actually contribute anything to the tax base. The disrespectful black kids are a net drain. And it doesn't help anyone to pretend otherwise.

the takeaway from that fact is that bolshy, loud, bigoted natives don't get to act like they're supporting economic migrants out of the charity of their own pocket. they're not.

Of course. And I haven't ever heard of a good reason why low functioning whites should be given primacy over high functioning minorities regardless of where they are in the world.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Of course. And I haven't ever heard of a good reason why low functioning whites should be given primacy over high functioning minorities regardless of where they are in the world.

Then you must be pro-colonialist, shouldn't high functioning whites be able to displace low-functioning blacks?
Blows away the arguments for affirmative action for blacks too.

I haven't ever heard of a good reason why low functioning blacks should be given primacy over high functioning whites regardless of where they are in the world

Its racist to say that, but not the reverse, sad.

uziq wrote:

i am convinced dilbert is beyond any sort of rational discussion and 'debate', he really is a limited and narrow-minded man.

he has his 'pessimistic realism' and 'scientific objectivity' like jay once had his rand and now has his national review. the lady's not for turning, etc.

if you present him with a study, reams of studies, meta-studies of studies, or a report, an official report, a government report, even, he'll dig down into it and wheedle out the most trivial methodological quibble; and then, having thrown it out, substitute it with the wildest most insupportable generalizations of his own. he's a bigot given to tabloid wild tales who goes over any countervailing opinion with a magnifying glass. these people aren't out to discuss anything, they're merely howling into a void to quell their own fears. watch out! china! jews! moselmen! poles! east anglians! people from the next valley over!  mummy!!!

LOL OK, all the 'studies' you've presented are provably bunk.

I'm sure the Chinese view you and your pig-literature interests the same way white settlers viewed african natives and their superstitions, unworthy of the land they were squatting on and only good for slavery.
By your argument the Chinese should be free to displace you from your comfortable life, since, according to them, they're more intelligent, cultured, harder working and make better use of the available resources.
Bad luck for you and your kind I guess.

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

i am convinced dilbert is beyond any sort of rational discussion and 'debate', he really is a limited and narrow-minded man.

he has his 'pessimistic realism' and 'scientific objectivity' like jay once had his rand and now has his national review. the lady's not for turning, etc.

if you present him with a study, reams of studies, meta-studies of studies, or a report, an official report, a government report, even, he'll dig down into it and wheedle out the most trivial methodological quibble; and then, having thrown it out, substitute it with the wildest most insupportable generalizations of his own. he's a bigot given to tabloid wild tales who goes over any countervailing opinion with a magnifying glass. these people aren't out to discuss anything, they're merely howling into a void to quell their own fears. watch out! china! jews! moselmen! poles! east anglians! people from the next valley over!  mummy!!!

LOL OK, all the 'studies' you've presented are provably bunk.

I'm sure the Chinese view you and your pig-literature interests the same way white settlers viewed african natives and their superstitions, unworthy of the land they were squatting on and only good for slavery.
By your argument the Chinese should be free to displace you from your comfortable life, since, according to them, they're more intelligent, cultured, harder working and make better use of the available resources.
Bad luck for you and your kind I guess.

sssssh baby dilbert, go to sleep. the chinese aren't going to enact the great replacement of white civilization any time soon. hush now baby don't cry.

i do a daily service for chinese authors who rely on me for publication. we have a shanghai office. i could work there, actually. good idea. china represents the biggest area of growth in academic publishing, and the biggest emerging market in english-language research. china is a fantastic and exciting opportunity.

see? migrants move to countries where they have a skill that is in demand by the host country. they pay taxes, evidently above the average net contribution, and everyone benefits. wow! it's an amazing idea! maybe some chinese people with unique skills can come here and contribute, too! wow what an exciting prospect! but i don't know that they'll be replacing my english language-oriented job any time soon! maybe you engineers who are only as good as the next human calculator, though!

i think i'm getting to why you have so much anxiety about the chinese. they don't care about western literature, you're right, but that doesn't mean they want to annexe oxbridge and turn them into iPhone factories. china is pouring all of its resources into engineering and technology, much like india with IT and programming. your whole anxieties are YOUR job anxieties, not mine. stop projecting, please, you peon. all those hints you've dropped over the years of being unhappy at your last few workplaces, increasingly undervalued, beholden to managers/consultants/etc, whilst your quality-of-life at work goes down the pan. you're the squeezed engineer who is seeing his status and standing drop at successive companies. the chinese are brute-forcing your industry and working 10x harder than you with people 10x more gifted at maths due to their schooling system and investment. what makes it so much worse is that you hapless dweebs have been riding through the 90s and 00s by massively over-investing in your identities as 'engineers', developing your dweeby little superiority complexes and farming your karma in the /r/engineeringmasterrace sub-reddit.

now you get HVAC gammons like jay going full pro-trump, job protection for the inferior western engineer. and dilbert, lathe operator extraordinaire, who can only cling to his 'scientific' racism and sense of superiority from the confines of his mother's carpeted-walls basement. i am FINALLY understanding this picture!

meanwhile i'm working at a not-for-profit, happy as larry, reading all day, without a worry in the world. i'm respected in my work and fulfilled by it. i couldn't care a fig if the UK is the world's 4th biggest economy or the 12th biggest economy, it hardly affects me and my job/studies/career in the english arts-and-culture sector. i'm happy with the standard of lifestyle i have now and it's certainly not going to be robbed because of china's continued growth. there are plenty of unconcerned literature bores and editors in the denmarks and netherlands of this world.

you've just been projecting this whole fucking time. you little pissy bitch!

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-27 15:30:56)

last time i checked the official government report said that economic migrants are a net contribution. my fellow citizens are benefitting.

plenty has been written about how the NHS will face staff shortages, universities will lose lecturers, the UK will lose lots of valued workers, and lose tax. there was even a point, made by the economist, those prime paddlers of bad arguments, saying that my fellow citizens are better off in terms of population/retirement burden.

you are yet to link me a single thing, a single salutary fucking thing, that shows the harms of EU migrants. you're very good at stereotypes about 'tax avoiding poles with large families' and ahistorical fucking nonsense like 'all the trouble in europe over the last 2,000 years comes from mixing'. but very light on evidence???

feel free!

until then i look forward to the massive opportunities that china presents for us people prudent enough to get a degree in the humanities. too bad, the amazing mr. abacus!

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-27 17:21:04)

feel free to show some support of your argument. it shouldn't be hard. you have a STEM degree! find some evidence.

lots of EU migrants have already lost their teaching posts and jobs. they do not have automatic full Visas for employment. many others are opting to leave because of the marked change in atmosphere, of 'not feeling welcome', and frankly who can blame them -- contribute more to the tax pot than the dumb natives for 10-15 years and then get kicked out as 'thanks'.

also i never said the sky was falling. you said i was at risk to the rise of china, which i safely dispatched. my job is thriving because of china at present. it doesn't matter at all if they care about humanities, because the economic rise of china isn't going to affect the culture industry or book-buying public in the west, is it? do you have a fucking clue what you're talking about? i don't work in an industry that has any direct competition from china, you moron. closer integration and more cross-lingual exposure will only add to potential growth, not take away! christ this isn't complicated.

as for 'fuck your fellow citizens' talk, i don't think that way at all, but all the analysis is pointing in the direction that says brexit is an economic self-wounding on several levels by those who voted most vociferously for it. you have rubbed your hands with glee over this several times before. as soon as i point out that part of that self-wounding involves kicking out actually quite valuable EU workers, you change your tune and accuse me of selfishness or something.

you are honestly impossible to pin down to any position. you just come here out of sheer boredom and to kick dirt in people's eyes. sad!

none of those things are contradictory?

if other people’s Brexit decisions shrinks the UK’s economy and role in the world, it doesn’t bother me one bit. i’m happy with my lifestyle here. this was in response to your continual scaremongering about migrants or ‘the chinese’ (talk about consistency, when you flip flop between catastrophe scenarios like a fish on the dock ...) causing the loss of everyone’s job. i think we are comfortable. i’m okay with the prospect of us settling into a second-tier power. it’s the fate of most imperial mother countries.

though i do suspect the pro-brexit lot, who have much in common with you, will feel differently about such a thing, despite effectively voting purposefully for it.

saying that we are going to lose lots of valuable contributors is a statement of fact. i never once claimed ‘the sky is falling’. the only person with such drastic and dramatic rhetoric in this discussion is you. i am pointing to the clear and material difference that losing EU migrants, such as hospital staff, yes, but also farm workers and the whole range of ‘undesirable’ unskilled labour, will incur to the nation’s economy. how is that saying ‘the sky is falling’? almost all the economic analysis, not least that of the bank of england and treasury, say that we are in for short-term shocks and losses — which obviously involves the material loss of valuable persons.

you’re projecting your own anxious and fearful state of mind onto me and then accusing me of hypocrisy. a very novel discussion technique. ‘expressionist debate’? my comments about my own career, my own views about the likely future loss of power/status etc. are only there to point to the fact that i precisely DON’T have any great emotional investment in these matters (again, seemingly unlike you who, again, doesn’t even live in the country...). you accuse me of hypocrisy for being personally motivated and then accuse me of hypocrisy for not caring enough.

work it out for yourself.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 01:47:34)

you have nothing worth saying beyond expressing your own biases, seemingly not a single datum of evidence in support of your claims, and no reasoning to support your grandiose historical generalisations.

i look forward to you joining your local congregation and buying healing crystals, seeing as you've gone full retard on the irrationalism and can't present a single 'man of science'  argument for anything you're saying, and seeing as you're mistrustful and paranoiac of seemingly every source outside of your own dark cavernous Unconscious.

who would have thought it could be so taxing, asking a scientist for evidence to support a claim?

instead we have 'the jews are behind everything', 'china are going to wipe out the whites', 'that is, if the immigrants don't manage their secret infiltration first', and, the pièce de résistance, 'the last 2,000 years in europe would be much better if people didn't mix'.

congratulations, you've turned D&ST into infowars.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 04:44:56)

i like maps

the top civil servant in the UK has resigned because of the ideologues in control.

the lot peddling dilbert's line about immigration and UK workers, incidentally.

what could possibly go wrong?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p … 45151.html

Priti Patel has been branded “clueless” after claiming that labour shortages caused by her tough new immigration plans could be filled by 8.5 million “economically inactive” people in the UK.

The home secretary was speaking as sectors from care homes to construction to farming warned that they will face difficulty recruiting enough staff after the points-based system comes into force at the end of the year.

But official figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the 8.5 million 16- to 64-year-olds currently not seeking work include around 2.3 million students and 2.1 million long-term sick, as well as more than 1.1 million who are retired and 1.9 million who are looking after their family or home. Fewer than 1.9 million of the total were recorded as wanting a job.

The IPPR think tank calculated that Ms Patel’s immigration plans – which replace free movement with a requirement for most migrants to have a job offer worth £25,600 or more – would rule out around 70 per cent of EU workers currently in the country, delivering a “shock” to key sectors of the economy.