Dude, you are wrong. You've never worked for a large company. Corporations rule the US Economy and job force. Corporations absolutely look for academic pedigrees first, then elite career pedigrees second.Jay wrote:
I wouldn't get too worried. At least here in America, while they dominate the public sector, they're not as sought after in the private sector as they once were. Something about all being the same, entitled, and more interested in socializing than working...Larssen wrote:
No, it's mostly a new caste. Social mobility was pretty decent in the 70s, 80s up until the 2000s. Now our insistent reliance on 'elite institutions' and companies who claim a monopoly on producing 'the leaders of tomorrow' is creating a new elite - the ones who attended those places and who send their kids that way. Yes, this is from a different perspective as we didn't have the established oxford/cambridge/lse/ivy league on the continent. Up until a decade or two ago university was also basically free and you'd receive generous government stipends for being a student. Today that system is pretty much gone and you'll be seriously in debt once you have your degree.uziq wrote:
so you think the social mobility has stalled if not gone into total decline in a large number of western countries, no surprises that it’s the people who have been sending their children to the same schools since 1845 who are naturally claiming all the jobs in law, academia, politics, journalism, finance, business, etc.
not sure how you can argue against inherited privilege on the one hand and then open up the topic of social mobility on the other. two sides of the same janus face.
i’m quite sure this is worse in the UK than europe, so we might be talking of different contexts.
@dilbert, just let me know how ‘the average person’ thinks isn’t xenophobic, in the meanwhile you can stop with the petty snob accusations. your best defence seems to be ‘it’s irrational but so it goes’. so we should pander to people’s prejudices rather than try to improve people? interesting.
What I'm noticing is that increasingly many people in top management or government programs did their postgraduate or a second masters at LSE, Kings, Oxford, some comparable US institution or the French sciences po, HEC, INSEAD or ENA. They are completely overrepresented. Also, statistically less and less people from middle-lower class background attend university. Inequality is rising, but to believe it's all the old aristocracy re-establishing themselves is wrong. By and large these are people who's grandfathers and parents propelled themselves to riches.
Only because HR departments are nearly universally terrible. There has been pushback. I've seen more and more articles about eschewing ivy league graduates in favor of kids who will work and are hungry.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Dude, you are wrong. You've never worked for a large company. Corporations rule the US Economy and job force. Corporations absolutely look for academic pedigrees first, then elite career pedigrees second.Jay wrote:
I wouldn't get too worried. At least here in America, while they dominate the public sector, they're not as sought after in the private sector as they once were. Something about all being the same, entitled, and more interested in socializing than working...Larssen wrote:
No, it's mostly a new caste. Social mobility was pretty decent in the 70s, 80s up until the 2000s. Now our insistent reliance on 'elite institutions' and companies who claim a monopoly on producing 'the leaders of tomorrow' is creating a new elite - the ones who attended those places and who send their kids that way. Yes, this is from a different perspective as we didn't have the established oxford/cambridge/lse/ivy league on the continent. Up until a decade or two ago university was also basically free and you'd receive generous government stipends for being a student. Today that system is pretty much gone and you'll be seriously in debt once you have your degree.
What I'm noticing is that increasingly many people in top management or government programs did their postgraduate or a second masters at LSE, Kings, Oxford, some comparable US institution or the French sciences po, HEC, INSEAD or ENA. They are completely overrepresented. Also, statistically less and less people from middle-lower class background attend university. Inequality is rising, but to believe it's all the old aristocracy re-establishing themselves is wrong. By and large these are people who's grandfathers and parents propelled themselves to riches.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +635|3718
Not every Ivy league graduate was born with a silver spoon. There are plenty of hard working kids on scholarships who go there. I graduated high school with a middle class Hispanic kid who got a full ride to Princeton based off academics.
Elon Musk announcing that he will hold a job fair and doesn't care whether the people have graduated high school is more an indictment about his slavemaster mentality when it comes to his workers and their lack of competitive pay than corporations eschewing candidates with academic pedigrees.Jay wrote:
Only because HR departments are nearly universally terrible. There has been pushback. I've seen more and more articles about eschewing ivy league graduates in favor of kids who will work and are hungry.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Dude, you are wrong. You've never worked for a large company. Corporations rule the US Economy and job force. Corporations absolutely look for academic pedigrees first, then elite career pedigrees second.Jay wrote:
I wouldn't get too worried. At least here in America, while they dominate the public sector, they're not as sought after in the private sector as they once were. Something about all being the same, entitled, and more interested in socializing than working...
Management positions at large corporations follow a very specific funnel - ivy league/prestigious university -> top 4 consulting firm -> executive management.
We aren't talking about paper pushers and bean counters. I'm not sure what your "HR departments are universally terrible" comment is. HR departments don't set requirements for open positions.
Scholarships at places like Yale, Princeton, Harvard aren't based on academic merit, they are based on your parents' income. Anyone accepted gets free tuition, depending on how much your parents make. There are exceptions where students from wealthy families are still given full scholarships based on academics, but the initial bar is set at income level, not grades.SuperJail Warden wrote:
Not every Ivy league graduate was born with a silver spoon. There are plenty of hard working kids on scholarships who go there. I graduated high school with a middle class Hispanic kid who got a full ride to Princeton based off academics.
$30billion endowments that profit off unethical capitalist concerns will allow that. So altruistic.
- SuperJail Warden
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I meant he didn't get in because his family was rich or went there beforehand. He was a great student and earned his place there.
I find the concept of these extra special higher education institutions and the reverance they receive both strange and deplorable honestly. It's poisoned education and the university ranking lists are poisoning it in the rest of the world as well. By unduly creating this notion that there are only a handful of places out of tens of thousands that are truly 'the best', setting arbitrary standards which all universities in the west are now forced to emulate to keep up. A unique environment, curriculum or culture are more likely reasons to drop in rankings than to climb. What truly seems to matter is which university can draw the most rich international students and simply how many citations are gathered by the articles it churns out. The formula for succes is to overwork your academic staff, create a gigantic array of degrees and lure in as many chinese people as possible. Oh, and to maintain their grip on the idea that there's only a handful of institutions that truly matter, these very rich universities never fail to throw money at any academic that publishes something worthwhile lest they decide to be tenured elsewhere. The oxford, harvard, whatever label absolutely needs to be plastered on them.
It's the slow death of educational diversity that I truly consider a problem, as I believe the contexts of different environments are fundamental to the inspiration of original thought. A point I can't prove right now though I'm certain there's correlative studies that will point this out. There also seems to barely be a definition of 'good enough,' as the very notion seems unacceptable. Despite the fact that undergraduate courses in any degree are the same basic shit in most respectable institutions, a distinction must still be made! Solving differential equations or reading the basics of plato is supposedly much more intellectually challenging at Yale than at some german universität in cologne I guess.
#rant
It's the slow death of educational diversity that I truly consider a problem, as I believe the contexts of different environments are fundamental to the inspiration of original thought. A point I can't prove right now though I'm certain there's correlative studies that will point this out. There also seems to barely be a definition of 'good enough,' as the very notion seems unacceptable. Despite the fact that undergraduate courses in any degree are the same basic shit in most respectable institutions, a distinction must still be made! Solving differential equations or reading the basics of plato is supposedly much more intellectually challenging at Yale than at some german universität in cologne I guess.
#rant
Last edited by Larssen (2020-02-20 14:51:22)
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If the Germans wanted their universities ranked higher than they should have won the two World Wars.
I am being serious. University rankings are tied to the perceived opportunities that the universities can give you. The richest and most powerful country in the world also having the richest and best perceived universities is a consequence of our success. It would be bizarre if it were otherwise.
I am being serious. University rankings are tied to the perceived opportunities that the universities can give you. The richest and most powerful country in the world also having the richest and best perceived universities is a consequence of our success. It would be bizarre if it were otherwise.
global university rankings are obviously biased towards english-speaking universities. to say that heidelberg or the sorbonne is ‘worse’ than princeton in an absolute sense is pretty stupid.
i see no problem with having an elite tier of education, to be honest. but precise rankings are a bit of an astrological crapshoot. in certain years a university can fluctuate 40 places in the global rankings when it hasn’t got 40 places worse in any meaningful way. you can get lost in the methodologies a bit. they are ultimately gussied-up consumer guides. i don’t think actual academics with or planning research careers agonise over the precise rankings too much.
i see no problem with having an elite tier of education, to be honest. but precise rankings are a bit of an astrological crapshoot. in certain years a university can fluctuate 40 places in the global rankings when it hasn’t got 40 places worse in any meaningful way. you can get lost in the methodologies a bit. they are ultimately gussied-up consumer guides. i don’t think actual academics with or planning research careers agonise over the precise rankings too much.
Last edited by uziq (2020-02-21 06:30:40)
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The college I graduated from is consistently ranked 60ish in National Rankings. It's ranked somewhere in the top 25 public universities.
To be honest, with the exception of writing assignments, the work I did there for my BA in history doesn't seem harder than the work I give my A-level U.S. history students. I think most of my A-level kids could do a BA there no problem if they had the support ($$$) to do it.
The second BA I did was at a lower ranked teacher college and the work was a fucking breeze compared to Rutgers and my own classes. Most B-level kids I have could probably do it if they had the support ($$$).
Graduate level work would obviously be very different but I would bet a lot of money that the kids I see finishing high school in AP classes with high 90's could do that too if they again had the support ($$$) to do it.
It is really upsetting to me that a lot of kids who have their shit together better than me as an adult can't go to college because their parents are immigrant parking lot attendants. Meanwhile my Boomer parents could bail my crazy ass out if I ever got into trouble. Even though Bernie's free college won't benefit me personally, I think it is the right thing to do.
To be honest, with the exception of writing assignments, the work I did there for my BA in history doesn't seem harder than the work I give my A-level U.S. history students. I think most of my A-level kids could do a BA there no problem if they had the support ($$$) to do it.
The second BA I did was at a lower ranked teacher college and the work was a fucking breeze compared to Rutgers and my own classes. Most B-level kids I have could probably do it if they had the support ($$$).
Graduate level work would obviously be very different but I would bet a lot of money that the kids I see finishing high school in AP classes with high 90's could do that too if they again had the support ($$$) to do it.
It is really upsetting to me that a lot of kids who have their shit together better than me as an adult can't go to college because their parents are immigrant parking lot attendants. Meanwhile my Boomer parents could bail my crazy ass out if I ever got into trouble. Even though Bernie's free college won't benefit me personally, I think it is the right thing to do.
Oops, my bad, Australia has had muslim gang rapes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfield_gang_rapes
Instead of sweeping it under the rug and not saying its a muslim problem it was identified as a muslim problem and new laws were passed.
No muslim gang rapes since.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfield_gang_rapes
Instead of sweeping it under the rug and not saying its a muslim problem it was identified as a muslim problem and new laws were passed.
No muslim gang rapes since.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-02-23 16:05:46)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
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The Eurozone is screwed. The Italians are going to get you all sick with the Wuhan flu.
I bet the bigwigs in the CCP have already had the vaccine.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
what was i saying a few pages ago to larssen about belgians ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51612541
yeah, remember that the next time they tell you how lost and victimised they are because their country accepts immigrants. poor little belgians. it was a mistake to ever save their asses.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51612541
yeah, remember that the next time they tell you how lost and victimised they are because their country accepts immigrants. poor little belgians. it was a mistake to ever save their asses.
At this point people are dressing up and building floats like that for the express purpose of riling up newsmedia and the UN folk. Don't misinterpret me here, I think it's tasteless (esp. the nazi costumes).
Of course there's such a thing as decency, I never saw floats with jew caricatures or SS uniforms where I'm at. However the responses were so ridiculously disproportionate considering the context we're dealing with that it's ensured that this year the floats were even more racist than last year. It's sad in a way that the identity politics and reactionism is slowly spoiling a 500+ year old festival. On the one hand by idiots who feel their culture/identity is threatened by globalism and who somehow feel the need to make racist wagons during carnival because 'we should be able to make fun of everything right', on the other by idiots who put identity up on a sacred pedestal and send death threats to people who built a float with a caricature of a pink orthodox jew on it.
Of course there's such a thing as decency, I never saw floats with jew caricatures or SS uniforms where I'm at. However the responses were so ridiculously disproportionate considering the context we're dealing with that it's ensured that this year the floats were even more racist than last year. It's sad in a way that the identity politics and reactionism is slowly spoiling a 500+ year old festival. On the one hand by idiots who feel their culture/identity is threatened by globalism and who somehow feel the need to make racist wagons during carnival because 'we should be able to make fun of everything right', on the other by idiots who put identity up on a sacred pedestal and send death threats to people who built a float with a caricature of a pink orthodox jew on it.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-02-25 09:43:34)
The world could do with less sensitivity.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
yes, people in the low countries should really stop being so sensitive over the nazis.
meanwhile jay gets upset if you question the perception of his job role. you couldn't make it up
meanwhile jay gets upset if you question the perception of his job role. you couldn't make it up
Last edited by uziq (2020-02-25 09:59:58)
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People always think other people are too sensitive until someone insults their specific identity.
Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2020-02-25 10:51:24)
anyway, the town that hosts the festival in question is a known far-right hotspot, lots of organising and evident rising support in that area. anti-semitic graffiti, racist attacks, etc have been reported. this isn't some 'liberals getting soft and over-protective' thing like the dutch try to claim with their beloved annual black-pete shoe polish holiday which is supposedly an intrinsic part of the dutch national character, or whatever. it's literally the far-right gathering to dress up as 1940s-era jewish stereotypes and nazi ss guards.
whether or not you care enough about it, or whether it's just people being 'over-sensitive' in an area that was literally decimated and ethnically cleansed by the far-right within living memory, is up to you. but people like dilbert can please stop playing the world's smallest fiddle over the 'threatened' and 'defensive' white locals who are so evidently driven to commit mass shootings at shisha bars and to don nazi garb. these people are fascist faggots and should be called out for it; dilbert makes out that they're a peace-loving people nobly facing their own extermination.
whether or not you care enough about it, or whether it's just people being 'over-sensitive' in an area that was literally decimated and ethnically cleansed by the far-right within living memory, is up to you. but people like dilbert can please stop playing the world's smallest fiddle over the 'threatened' and 'defensive' white locals who are so evidently driven to commit mass shootings at shisha bars and to don nazi garb. these people are fascist faggots and should be called out for it; dilbert makes out that they're a peace-loving people nobly facing their own extermination.
Last edited by uziq (2020-02-25 10:59:38)
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These people are all going to be dead when the Italians bring the China flu yo town.
Maybe people are tired of the jews and their constant whining and demands for special treatment and special sympathy.
Someone made a tasteless float, so what, the Belgians, Dutch etc also suffered under the Germans, more so than some Russian Israeli.
Its not as if the Germans did anything the jews hadn't done previously 10 times over to other cultures and were doing to the Palestinians before WW2 even started, and its not as if they have sympathy for anyone besides themselves.
Someone made a tasteless float, so what, the Belgians, Dutch etc also suffered under the Germans, more so than some Russian Israeli.
Its not as if the Germans did anything the jews hadn't done previously 10 times over to other cultures and were doing to the Palestinians before WW2 even started, and its not as if they have sympathy for anyone besides themselves.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
see, when you start making excuses for nazi LARPers and people who go around shooting innocents in bars, that's when i know we are not even in the same stadium, let alone part of the same fucking debate. you never go full retard, dilbert.
Last edited by uziq (2020-02-25 12:56:33)
I really don't get the 'they do it too / they do worse' defence. It's a form of deflection at best. What happened to holding ourselves to a higher standard, to ensure that the shocking realities elsewhere don't become a normal state of affairs here as well?
I wouldn't support banning certain floats at this point in time but if it keeps happening year upon year, the intent definitely moves away from humour and starts becoming malicious and political. At that point it'd be fair enough to enforce a political solution as well.
I wouldn't support banning certain floats at this point in time but if it keeps happening year upon year, the intent definitely moves away from humour and starts becoming malicious and political. At that point it'd be fair enough to enforce a political solution as well.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
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I am sure they will get bored of the attention.
So basically the jews can do whatever they like but no-one else can?Larssen wrote:
I really don't get the 'they do it too / they do worse' defence. It's a form of deflection at best. What happened to holding ourselves to a higher standard, to ensure that the shocking realities elsewhere don't become a normal state of affairs here as well?
Its not really a recipe for peace and harmony.
Ha ha the irony.Larssen wrote:
it'd be fair enough to enforce a political solution
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-02-25 13:40:07)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Nazi's are left wing. It's in the name. National Socialist. They're only called right wing because of Soviet propaganda.uziq wrote:
anyway, the town that hosts the festival in question is a known far-right hotspot, lots of organising and evident rising support in that area. anti-semitic graffiti, racist attacks, etc have been reported. this isn't some 'liberals getting soft and over-protective' thing like the dutch try to claim with their beloved annual black-pete shoe polish holiday which is supposedly an intrinsic part of the dutch national character, or whatever. it's literally the far-right gathering to dress up as 1940s-era jewish stereotypes and nazi ss guards.
whether or not you care enough about it, or whether it's just people being 'over-sensitive' in an area that was literally decimated and ethnically cleansed by the far-right within living memory, is up to you. but people like dilbert can please stop playing the world's smallest fiddle over the 'threatened' and 'defensive' white locals who are so evidently driven to commit mass shootings at shisha bars and to don nazi garb. these people are fascist faggots and should be called out for it; dilbert makes out that they're a peace-loving people nobly facing their own extermination.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat