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2019-12-02 05:24:08
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

I particularly liked his insinuation that I've never been on a high refresh rate and that the enlightening experience would make me not be so cheap. It's also weird that I'm the first person he's seen who didn't care. There are tons who don't. Maybe inside the cloistered environment of some game development classrooms, things are different.

For office-related stuff I run on dual monitors. Different brands each. The setup isn't as flashy as one of those ultrawides, but it wouldn't be such a giant pain if one or both were to quit. Funny thing is, none of my "cheapo" or productivity monitors have quit before their time. It's always the gamer-branded stuff.

Your Dell should be fine for stuff like mmos.

As for youtubers, I mostly feel sorry for people trying to output creative and educational content. They've been sidelined for years. Other channels I can muster about as much sympathy for as the extent I find the way youtube operates to be somewhat draconian. It's a high risk endeavor. You spend a lot of your time producing content, only to have it quietly shut down with no explanation. Content makes youtube money. I don't think people who invest time in creating content for it should feel like they need to shut up about the site's problems because they get to upload stuff for free. No wonder they'd rather take the time they invest in their content and put it on Twitch first.

For me, some channels wouldn't be missed. Fake or mean-spirited prank vids, parasitic plagiarism, political rants. Spare me.
2019-12-02 07:47:43
uziq
Member
+493|3670
first time i've ever seen a games development course described as 'cloistered'. trust me, the MIT dome it ian't. more a bunch of acne'd scots who can't claim benefits anymore shuffling into a classroom to be put to some use. thas' a pure waste.

i currently run a dual-monitor set-up between my MacBook and the dell, yes. but obviously there's a bigger gap than with a 2x monitor bevel, and i end up hardly using the mac screen at all when i'm doing 'big' tasks. it just sits there for an outlook or teams client. could be better.

WoW does look great on the 60 Hz IPS dell, yeah. it's 1920x1200 or something, slightly more than 1080p. it's nice but the MacBook graphics could easily handle WoW on 1440p and beyond. i mean, the game is 10+ years old. i could probably even plump for 100-120Hz. tis the season and that (the season for publishing overtime).
2019-12-02 14:28:15
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

Perhaps a mischaracterization. Maybe no so much "cloistered" as an echo chamber for gaming tech enthusiasm. I've had contact with such classrooms in the past.
2019-12-02 14:50:14
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6850|949

uziq wrote:

first time i've ever seen a games development course described as 'cloistered'. trust me, the MIT dome it ian't. more a bunch of acne'd scots who can't claim benefits anymore shuffling into a classroom to be put to some use. thas' a pure waste.

i currently run a dual-monitor set-up between my MacBook and the dell, yes. but obviously there's a bigger gap than with a 2x monitor bevel, and i end up hardly using the mac screen at all when i'm doing 'big' tasks. it just sits there for an outlook or teams client. could be better.

WoW does look great on the 60 Hz IPS dell, yeah. it's 1920x1200 or something, slightly more than 1080p. it's nice but the MacBook graphics could easily handle WoW on 1440p and beyond. i mean, the game is 10+ years old. i could probably even plump for 100-120Hz. tis the season and that (the season for publishing overtime).
how do you like using MSFT teams? We previously used slack for interoffice communications and I have to say I like the look and feel of Teams a lot more. As a file repository/knowledge base I think it has a lot more funcitonality than slack too.
2019-12-02 15:31:44
uziq
Member
+493|3670
Teams is horrendous for me because it's a step down in the functionalities i wanted most. they folded Skype into it and completely destroyed skype's core quality. there's no push to talk button in teams anymore! do you have any idea what happens when people from multiple continents, with multiple laptops, are in an editorial conference call, with a mic'd up conference room as the host? with no push to talk key? holy shit every single conference call i have been in since going onto teams has had horrendous audio quality, feedback loops, mic noise, etc. i'm also pretty sure that if you 'mute a participant' because they're the ones with a hot mic, it doesn't just mute it for your own speakers' sake ... it globally mutes them so they can't speak when they want to, unless they manually un-mute themselves. W T F how do they get an established technology so wrong? Xfire had push-to-talk as a fucking throwaway afterthought!

i was so incensed about this design decision that i complained about it on the teams dev page. it's a 'low priority' change, apparently. i cannot even reason with something that stupid. almost everyone at my company, whether in the office or working remotely, uses a laptop now ... you know, those devices with speakers and mics normally next to one another. great idea to have a voice call app without push-to-talk to control echo/feedback.

i also mostly connect via VM and running teams in that is just way more resource-intensive and sluggish than it needs to be. the result is that i (dare to) run teams on my main windows desktop, outside of my VM environment, and ... well, you can't just close the app, can you? it's literally fucking impossible to close teams like a normal app. it's 'embedded' in windows somehow. the only way i've figured out to circumvent it is to sign-out and then just keep teams open, forever, until i restart. DUMB.

i agree it's nice that it brings together a lot of document pinning, file-sharing, notice boards etc. it means we no longer have to use online portal/intranet tools as much, or those terribly fashionable kan-ban boards or JIRA tickets or whatever-the-fuck. but like all 'do everything' software, it is bloated to holy hell and misses the mark on a few VERY basic needs.

anyway, i bought a 35 inch ultrawide benq monitor. 100hz/1440p/freesync2 etc. will see how it goes.

Last edited by uziq (2019-12-02 15:39:17)

2019-12-02 15:59:47
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6850|949

ohh, i didn't even know you could use teams for voice conferencing. There are virtually no good teleconferencing applications. The closest one to a functional, reasonable service is Webex, but their enterprise edition is ridiculously expensive. I think we were paying something like $3k/month in just subscription fees, then minute charges on top. I think that was for 6 users? Zoom is decent too. Just don't ever use BlueJeans...terrible, terrible little application.

Do you have any familiarity with Skype4Business? It's still treated as a standalong app within the O365 environment and sounds like a much better conferencing tool than teams.
2019-12-02 16:18:21
uziq
Member
+493|3670
we have skype4business, yeah. i'm not completely au fait with how the systems team at our house have rolled out teams, but any Skype4business meeting/call that is in the office calendar will get stuck in a loop trying to launch teams. it launches to a web browser window that then tries to prompt the teams app to open the meeting ... you get caught in a loop like that.

we still have Skype standalone as an application, but it is almost officially deprecated at this point. it's all teams integration.
2019-12-02 18:30:10
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

How the hell is implementing a push-to-talk key considered "low priority?" That's like one of the most basic features of both teleconferencing and video game chat. It's like the industry wants everyone to use automatic pickup. It seems to be the default setting in anything I install.

Do they seriously think everyone is going to bother setting up their mic correctly so you don't have to hear air conditioners, mouth noises, and paper shuffling from like 18 different sources simultaneously? Or that one guy who won't plug their mic in all the way and emits a constant crackle?

#*&$
2019-12-02 18:38:14
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

uziq wrote:

anyway, i bought a 35 inch ultrawide benq monitor. 100hz/1440p/freesync2 etc. will see how it goes.
Nice, let us know how it plays off the MBP.

I've been looking at some of the Dells and also

https://www.newegg.com/asus-pa34vc-34-u … 6824236970

A little hesitant about ASUS though because the last high end monitor I bought from them ended up with nasty edge bleed along the bottom and several stuck/dead pixels scattered around the screen.

Probably not too reasonable considering this is a different panel for different ends.

Here's an LG I considered grabbing for my dad for Christmas:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E1682402551 … _-12022019
2019-12-02 19:19:35
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6324|eXtreme to the maX
The 10 year old Samsung Syncmaster 1920x1200 I rescued from the IT guy is still going amazing.
He scammed a colleague into trading two of them for two smaller shittier screens "its an upgrade" and was going to keep them himself.

This is the guy who is divorced, may or may not have got his sister-in-law in pregnant - if its his her boyfriend is going to smash his face in - and whose kids have to be checked for fleas every time he puts them in the creche.
Mormons - what a bunch.
Fuck Israel
2019-12-02 19:52:26
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

I think this post more kindly sums up my qualms about the Mormon church, omitting many more troublesome kinds of anecdotes:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/do-mormo … eaaae27173

All the same, I don't think it's fair to characterize their membership by things this one IT guy did.
2019-12-03 02:00:56
uziq
Member
+493|3670

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

uziq wrote:

anyway, i bought a 35 inch ultrawide benq monitor. 100hz/1440p/freesync2 etc. will see how it goes.
Nice, let us know how it plays off the MBP.

I've been looking at some of the Dells and also

https://www.newegg.com/asus-pa34vc-34-u … 6824236970

A little hesitant about ASUS though because the last high end monitor I bought from them ended up with nasty edge bleed along the bottom and several stuck/dead pixels scattered around the screen.

Probably not too reasonable considering this is a different panel for different ends.

Here's an LG I considered grabbing for my dad for Christmas:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E1682402551 … _-12022019
as is typical of consumer behaviour in these trying times, i now (in the short term) know way more about monitors than anyone ever needs to fucking know.

i went for a benq as it has some semi-respectable stats for gaming and VA panel that isn't entirely terrible. other options in the price bracket were a 34 inch ultrawide dell with a very nice IPS panel, but which only offered 60 Hz (as you'd expect), and samsung's offering with quantum-dot (whatever the fuck that garbage means) but which also had very long frame delays and quite a lot of ghosting/motion blur.

the basic choices between TN/IPS haven't really been fixed by the addition of VA panels in the intervening years since i last bought a monitor, it seems. you're still getting a handful of pros and inevitable cons unless you want to spend 'new system' money just on a monitor. the benq i went with has very decent colour reproduction and respectable speeds/refresh rates. it also has usb-c and a bunch of extra connectivity/power options that last-gen models didn't have.

mercifully there are no RGB lights or ridiculous 'alien civilisation' angles on this one. a few ASUS predator monitors and a Dell-alienware model are in the same bracket but would turn my workspace into a 1970s disco. no thank you, i'm not 15.

https://www.benq.eu/en-uk/monitor/gaming/ex3501r.html

i don't care at all fo the 'HDR' thing, it seems like marketing spiel to me, from what i can see. you still need to spend an immense amount of money on a monitor/GPU to take advantage of it, in all of about 4 games. it seems like windows/microsoft drivers are bad for it, as well, and actually make things look much worse for most of the time. i'll be turning that crap off.

https://www.benq.eu/en-uk/campaign/benq … ology.html

it's probably a sign of my age that this suite of features appeals to me way more, being in front of a screen reading text for 8 hours a day. a light-sensor for brightness adjust? low blue light? ePaper mode? TALK TO ME!!!

i'll let you know how this one goes. it had better be very fucking impressive to replace my dell IPS. luckily it can have a useful after-life as my girlfriend is doing her master's in architecture at the moment.

Last edited by uziq (2019-12-03 02:12:28)

2019-12-03 02:07:52
uziq
Member
+493|3670

Dilbert_X wrote:

The 10 year old Samsung Syncmaster 1920x1200 I rescued from the IT guy is still going amazing.
He scammed a colleague into trading two of them for two smaller shittier screens "its an upgrade" and was going to keep them himself.
1920x1200 is a godsend resolution. i wish 16:10 had become the standard. it's so useful in almost every application for productivity.
2019-12-03 03:39:47
Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,629|6007|Catherine Black

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I particularly liked his insinuation that I've never been on a high refresh rate and that the enlightening experience would make me not be so cheap. It's also weird that I'm the first person he's seen who didn't care. There are tons who don't. Maybe inside the cloistered environment of some game development classrooms, things are different.
Hey sorry man I didn't mean anything by it, wasn't calling you cheap. Just going off my experiences and media I've consumed, and people I've shown high refresh rates to. Sure, not a scientifically sound method, and turns out it's not the best way of assessing the weight everyone should be assigning to hrf. I mistakenly assumed that anyone not a champion of hfr just hang experienced it yet, cause to me it's almost as big an impact on image clarity as going from 30-60 fps.

The industry is getting to the point where hfr isn't so costly to impliment, so my advice is get it if it's available. Wouldn't have given the same advice a decade ago when I took delivery of my 2233RZ, was too expensive back then.

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The 10 year old Samsung Syncmaster 1920x1200 I rescued from the IT guy is still going amazing.
He scammed a colleague into trading two of them for two smaller shittier screens "its an upgrade" and was going to keep them himself.
1920x1200 is a godsend resolution. i wish 16:10 had become the standard. it's so useful in almost every application for productivity.
word
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
2019-12-03 03:40:22
Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,629|6007|Catherine Black
Idk about HDR myself, not experienced it yet, but Linus seems to love it
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
2019-12-03 04:05:12
uziq
Member
+493|3670
i think it's probably still in that phase where the lower-end of HDR is being hyped up a lot by entry-level monitors that don't really carry it off. i'm not inclined to go above the £600-750 bracket for a monitor to find out.
2019-12-03 04:39:31
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6324|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The 10 year old Samsung Syncmaster 1920x1200 I rescued from the IT guy is still going amazing.
He scammed a colleague into trading two of them for two smaller shittier screens "its an upgrade" and was going to keep them himself.
1920x1200 is a godsend resolution. i wish 16:10 had become the standard. it's so useful in almost every application for productivity.
By itself its perfect, as a two-monitor setup its better than that.
Currently its set up rotated 90 degrees next to my sisters laptop, not so sure about that.
Fuck Israel
2019-12-03 04:56:18
uziq
Member
+493|3670
i actually think it's the ideal resolution for the 90-degree portrait mode set-up. the extra pixels really help it out. you can have a decent-sized scrolling page document, for instance, with full margins and nice zoom @ 1200px width.

i could have just bought a 2nd clone of the dell IPS panel i currently have, for half the price, too. but i guess it's time to check out high refresh rate and all the modern gubbins. and USB-C is ideal for the new MacBook pro.

plus my office set-up is currently 2x24". i guess the ultrawide just seems like a novelty. i don't really want to replicate my office desk at home.

Last edited by uziq (2019-12-03 04:58:11)

2019-12-03 06:54:33
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

@uzique - I'm not sure if there's even an industry standard yet on what qualifies as an HDR label. With that said, there's probably not much of a reason to look for this over basic bullet points like brights, darks, contrast ratio, color gamut, response time, connections, panel type, panel manufacture, warranties, etc.

e: alright, the epaper mode has my attention. granted, it's not true E ink, but I think I'll see if a Best Buy has one of these on display. I usually swap to charcoal background, light grey text for my reading mode.
2019-12-03 07:10:45
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

Finray wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I particularly liked his insinuation that I've never been on a high refresh rate and that the enlightening experience would make me not be so cheap. It's also weird that I'm the first person he's seen who didn't care. There are tons who don't. Maybe inside the cloistered environment of some game development classrooms, things are different.
Hey sorry man I didn't mean anything by it, wasn't calling you cheap. Just going off my experiences and media I've consumed, and people I've shown high refresh rates to. Sure, not a scientifically sound method, and turns out it's not the best way of assessing the weight everyone should be assigning to hrf. I mistakenly assumed that anyone not a champion of hfr just hang experienced it yet, cause to me it's almost as big an impact on image clarity as going from 30-60 fps.

The industry is getting to the point where hfr isn't so costly to impliment, so my advice is get it if it's available. Wouldn't have given the same advice a decade ago when I took delivery of my 2233RZ, was too expensive back then.
haha no worries, it was too hard for me to resist exploiting tongue-in-cheek.

I still think very high refresh rates are most specifically for gaming, and for other multimedia users it can be a bit overkill and come at the cost of other more needed features. And also that 60hz is still very playable if you do swap to a game.

Currently there isn't a monitor on the market that is best for everything with zero compromises.
2019-12-03 07:21:00
uziq
Member
+493|3670
yeah, there really isn't. 144 Hz and good quality only exists in like $750+ bracket.

the sweetspot seems to be 1440p/27 inch/144 Hz. there are a lot of decent panels there, specifically for gaming but enough IPS panels with good image reproduction, too, if you want to spend extra.

but honestly, for me, there's just not that much difference in screen real estate between a 1900x1200 (i.e. 16:10)  24-inch screen and a 27-inch 16:9 one. definitely not enough of an upgrade to justify a $500 expense. so ultrawide it'll have to be.
2019-12-03 07:26:18
Finray
Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro
+2,629|6007|Catherine Black

uziq wrote:

the sweetspot seems to be 1440p/27 inch/144 Hz. there are a lot of decent panels there,
I love my monitor.
https://i.imgur.com/qwWEP9F.png
2019-12-03 07:32:49
uziq
Member
+493|3670
i could never call a TN monitor a 'sweetspot' tbh, but that's just me. i am staring at them all day, reading. the colours and contrasts would drive me nuts. but yeah, they're obviously the cream if you want to game with zero delays. but i don't play cs:go or tf2 or whatever and i honestly can't see many other games that justify the insane emphasis on response times and refresh rate. in fact, for something like fortnite or pub-g or whatever, i'd rather have a 21:9 for the aspect advantage over 144 Hz.

if i was playing games for 5 hours a day or whatever like i was at bf2 or tf2's peak or whatever, i would maybe have a 27-inch TN panel, if only as a secondary monitor for that specific purpose. i couldn't have one as my main display -- especially with a MacBook pro on the desk next to it. the apple screen would be so much better that it would be painful.

Last edited by uziq (2019-12-03 07:40:21)

2019-12-03 07:43:39
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6990|PNW

uziq wrote:

yeah, there really isn't. 144 Hz and good quality only exists in like $750+ bracket.

the sweetspot seems to be 1440p/27 inch/144 Hz. there are a lot of decent panels there, specifically for gaming but enough IPS panels with good image reproduction, too, if you want to spend extra.

but honestly, for me, there's just not that much difference in screen real estate between a 1900x1200 (i.e. 16:10)  24-inch screen and a 27-inch 16:9 one. definitely not enough of an upgrade to justify a $500 expense. so ultrawide it'll have to be.
16:10 comes into a lot of play if you're heavy into video editing. It was useful to me to give the timeline its own space without having to scrunch footage. The aspect ratio seems kind of hard to pin down with stats I'd want these days.

I think there are some alright 2k IPS screens with 1ms. I'd have to check the mfg site to be certain.
2019-12-03 07:46:59
uziq
Member
+493|3670
16:10 is ridiculously useful even in humble microsoft office. when editing a manuscript in word i can have the entire double-page spread open at 100% zoom and still have the top menu expanded and the bottom menu showing document/page info. under-rated convenience.

 

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