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uziq
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polls are quite meaningless in this election. careful or you’ll sound like a democrat pre-trump.
Larssen
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uziq wrote:

... and that is a debate entirely worth having?

are you saying that letting political parties lie outright to swing elections via social media is an ‘acceptable price’ for having the internet fulfill whatever naive libertarian dreams you have as a hangover from the dot-com boom?

information doesn’t want to be free, i’m sorry, it just piles up in the databases of unaccountable billionaires.
I've stated that the abuse of AI and machine learning is the root of the issue here and that an ethics committee on political campaigning would be the right start.

Banning political advertising from social media platforms in general is short sighted and ineffective. I'd say it's naive to believe that we will have an informed or useful debate if we put the onus/blame on social media platforms to regulate or solve the issue.

Last edited by Larssen (2019-11-07 03:15:12)

Dilbert_X
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uziq wrote:

polls are quite meaningless in this election. careful or you’ll sound like a democrat pre-trump.
There are weird results obviously

https://d2pvyxdw30n8fd.cloudfront.net/WKYT/v5dc34eee12a4a/thumbnail.jpg

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2019/11/06/ap_19310119622372_slide-46ad01f81bf233cfdaf83680be6fdd844fc4acfb-s1600-c85.jpg

It would be nice to think Johnson is working on winning votes he's already won, I guess we'll see.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1855
a proper legal and ethical framework for AI, much like the analogous debates in medicine and biology about gene editing, are much needed. of course. but these are huge topics, slightly incomprehensible even to the experts spearheading them, let alone to legal authorities.

social media companies taking money from political actors in exchange for hosting blatant lies and misinformation ... there's a particular example of a social ill that can be prevented. i don't think anyone is tasking a few social media companies with sorting out the major questions that new technologies pose.
Dilbert_X
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The root of the issue is people publishing false information, that should be punishable at some point.

Not sure how electoral spending limits are checked in the electronic world - if we're talking about Britain - and who is paying or controlling elsewhere.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-11-07 05:01:52)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1855

Dilbert_X wrote:

It would be nice to think Johnson is working on winning votes he's already won, I guess we'll see.
i expect the conservatives to win but not sure about the majority. another hung parliament would just about wrap up the game. time for a junta. queenie!
Larssen
Post limited. Contact Admin to Be Promoted.
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social media companies taking money from political actors in exchange for hosting blatant lies and misinformation ... there's a particular example of a social ill that can be prevented. i don't think anyone is tasking a few social media companies with sorting out the major questions that new technologies pose.
What you want is more or less impossible to enact. Political advertisements often appeal to emotion and make statements about hypotheticals, ifs and buts or the future. Even the 350m a week to the NHS bus was only a 'lie' because the math was off. If they wrote '250m a week' on the side the message wouldn't be any different but suddenly it'd be much closer to the, ahem, truth, and could pass as a legitimate ad.

Let's take the following ad as an example:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10AE/production/_102707240_cbd4f1ef-34a0-4124-93a4-114fd1d6f0c8.jpg

Technically not true, but if they would replace  'is' with 'could soon' ... well that just becomes a very complicated statement that may well be true. But the message remains more or less the same and will still have the intended effect.

It's the disregard for context and the cunning exploitation of people's ignorance that really makes these messages hit as well as they do. The game isn't just limited to advertising either. We know entire armies of bots and trolls are deployed to sway public opinion. Some multi-million news networks exist only to create ultra selective narratives. Their stories may not necessarily be untrue, but if the wider context is taken into account it becomes clear that their overarching message is totally removed from the truth.

If you want to tackle the issue, what we need is precisely a legal/ethical framework on political and journalistic conduct that can be enacted by an impartial authority that is less likely to be dragged into the political shit-slinging fest. The only place you can settle the argument that a certain political movement is deliberately spreading a false narrative is in a courtroom with a case that can be prepared for months. I don't see any other way to somewhat contain these problems.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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Larssen wrote:

If you want to tackle the issue, what we need is precisely a legal/ethical framework on political and journalistic conduct that can be enacted by an impartial authority that is less likely to be dragged into the political shit-slinging fest.
That horse bolted a long time ago. Fox, MSNBC and others have eliminated the idea of journalistic ethics.
The only place you can settle the argument that a certain political movement is deliberately spreading a false narrative is in a courtroom with a case that can be prepared for months. I don't see any other way to somewhat contain these problems.
First amendment and money will settle that argument, after an election its already too late.
There should be some sanction for spreading patently false information, but propaganda is impossible to control.

I think we've seen the death of journalism and political discourse, my belief is as valid as your evidence backed assertion, there's no going back now.
Epstein didn't kill himself
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,751|5175|USA

I love how blatantly manipulative that ad is purely from a design perspective.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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Interesting move by Farage, not sure if he's done a deal, thinks he'll get a deal or how it will really impact the election.

I think the conservatives are guaranteed to lose seats in Scotland so they need to gain seats elsewhere - I can't see that happening now, although one pundit suggested disaffected labour voters who want Brexit but would never vote conservative may well vote Brexit thus diluting the labour vote.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4509|eXtreme to the maX
Interesting move by Farage, not sure if he's done a deal, thinks he'll get a deal or how it will really impact the election.

I think the conservatives are guaranteed to lose seats in Scotland so they need to gain seats elsewhere - I can't see that happening now, although one pundit suggested disaffected labour voters who want Brexit but would never vote conservative may well vote Brexit thus diluting the labour vote.

A funny part is the Brexit candidates who have been working towards standing are now pissed that they've been told they won't be.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1855
'pissed'? farage made off with about £30k in registration contributions from that little climb down. not to mention all the money that candidates spent organising campaign offices, assistants, campaign materials, etc. on a very short notice. i imagine there's a lot of people feeling mugged off by that stunt. great way to further radicalise and anger the mob you've already whipped up under false pretences.

and all this, methinks, so that farage will get a peerage and a few nice courtesy titles. just watch it happen. the anti-establishment rabble rouser become a lord!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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No, Farage is is an idealist who puts the nation before self.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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Looks like the Brits are voting for a conservative majority, and therefore whatevr kind of Brexit Johnson decides to deliver.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2019-11-27/MRP%20overview%20seats%20changing%20hands%20variant-01.png
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar … snp-43-ld-

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-11-27 16:50:57)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1855
the result is probably right but don't think the polls are worth a damn in this election tbh.

yougov is one of the least transparent ones, it's closer to clairvoyance than psephology at this point in the game.

polls are in the business of making election results, not predicting them. let the pollsters talk to the pollsters (and betting shop clerks).

3.85 million people have registered to vote in the last two weeks, a record. many of them young and first-time voters. the pollsters don't have a grip on it.

Last edited by uziq (2019-11-27 17:04:06)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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Just remember, if you vote Labour you support the Holocaust.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1855
if you vote for anyone but green you support the holocaust of our planet, man
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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To exist is to destroy
Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Member
+199|2123
"It’s Not Just Trump. The American People Are Skeptical of NATO, Too."
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ … ato-074813

Most Americans are ingrates. Literally the only time the alliance was used defensively was when the Europeans followed us into our forever war in Afghanistan.

The people most skeptical of NATO are of course Trump supporters. They say we shouldn't be enemies with Russia. Whether they see Putin's Russia as a bastion of conservatism or are just following whatever Trump says is something only God knows.
uziq
Member
+175|1855
russia are literally playing the world like a tin pan alley fiddle over NATO. it’s such a face palm.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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Election today!

Don't forget, if you don't vote Conservative you're voting for a second holocaust.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1855
i'm gonna go vote. it will probably by a conserative-hung parliament.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4509|eXtreme to the maX
Which constituency? I need to know for stalking purposes.

As a self-made man who never took a dime from the govt I trust you're going to vote for the party which loves freedom ie Conservative.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1855
cheltenham.

could never vote conservative in its current farage-baiting, brexit-hoovering, boris-buffooning form. in my opinion that party has made itself unelectable for the under 35s for a generation.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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I guess Chavs are now all middle-aged.
Epstein didn't kill himself

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