BF2S Forums EE Chats 2142

history does produce many evaluative systems and interpretive frameworks - that’s sort of what history and historiography is?

or were you hoping it would produce a monolithic value system that you could then pit yourself against, heroic individual-thinker that you are?

you seem to have a continual confusion between the ethos and ‘point’ of subjects, and the individuals that study them. universities do not ‘produce’ automatons.

people can do engineering degrees and come out without any concerns and standards too? the fucking IRONY of you always mocking jay’s attitude towards ‘meddling government’. what are laws and regulations for? building codes? safety ISOs? i guess every engineer is a perfect moral specimen with an innate sense of right.

you talk about highly educated people doing wrong. yes, well done, the world isn’t as black and white as you’d like to have it. not really sure what your argument is here? so because a few bad apples or incorrigibles or psychopaths go through life seeking power and money above all, history is a dud? let’s close the books? i mean what are you saying here? never mind all the political leaders or people in positions of public service who have been guided towards good principles and probity by such study? hmmm make u think

i guess the engineers who came up with the private jet were moral and conscientious. i guess all those engineers who design products with built-in obsolescence are outstanding fellows, adding to landfill. but wait - is the issue in all these cases of greed and waste ... capitalism ... or their university education?!? or maybe it’s their evil bosses and taskmasters with sinister management degrees. it’s funny how the noble engineering master race becomes powerless and without responsibility when convenient, isn’t it?

because the forms of accountability are far more nebulous. are you really comparing an engineer keeping to a building code with ‘business leaders’ in positions of authority? what a terrible comparison.

person trained for and doing a specific and limited role, dealing with concrete solutions to physical problems.

a person doing a job in finance that is not specifically related to his education, working in an industry with arcane practices and cut throat profit seeking principles.

yeah great comparison! wow. and to think that stalin studied the bible for a few years in a seminary! make u think

i just think of all those dead children and gassed people in syria and remember assad’s impeccable education as an ophthalmologist. it’s just such a shame !!!

Dilbert_X wrote:

No-one builds in obsolescence, pretty well every product is state of the art when its produced.
Companies do compete with each other and update their own products to keep sales rolling along.
People like their widgets high performance and cheap as possible and that means a short life.
You get the odd reprehensible conduct - like Apple nerfing their own products through system updates - thats unlikely an engineering decision, apart from that its mostly the march of progress which renders things obsolete.

Unfortunately most engineering progress is wasted as the proles are too dumb for their own good.
Improved efficiency of jet engines drives increased fuel use as people travel more, for example. Thats not the fault of engineers who have done what society thought it wanted.

devices absolutely have planned in obsolescence and it has been a thing since at least the early monopoly era of capitalism. are you really that dense?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

everything is state of the art when it’s designed? are you fucking retarded? there’s a whole universe of sub-standard shoddy products put out, budget options, knock off goods, fakes and counterfeits, etc. entire cities in china are dedicated to manufacturing them. who designed all of those products?

i love how you complain about the vagueness of ‘just a bad apple’ but then forgive predatory or unscrupulous engineering decisions with a meaningless platitude like ‘the march of progress’. BRILLIANT!

you are a funny chap

Last edited by uziq (2019-11-21 01:12:26)

Weren't cartels outlawed about a century ago?
Quick, check how much you paid standard oil for the kerosene to light your lantern!

These are typically commercial decisions, not engineering decisions.
This does seem to confuse you.

Yes, people like cheap and are not prepared to pay for quality and long life. Hence Pioneer exited TV manufacture (tempting fate but my sisters' plasma is still going 16 years on).
If you don't like the quality of modern products blame yourself and your fellow consumer.

Companies producing fakes is wholly different from planned obsolescence, they're trading on the quality of the products they're knocking off - pretty well the opposite of what you meant.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-11-21 01:20:26)

convenient that you can blame capitalism or commercialism for shady engineering and bad products. but then when a banker commits fraud, it’s his background in european history that’s at fault.

bongggggg

uziq wrote:

convenient that you can blame capitalism or commercialism for shady engineering and bad products. but then when a banker commits fraud, it’s his background in european history that’s at fault.

bongggggg

You're blaming engineers for decisions taken by the commercial people, you don't know how the real world works.

Yes, if someone studies ethics or law and then seems to have learned nothing its fair to question what the value was.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Weren't cartels outlawed about a century ago?
Quick, check how much you paid standard oil for the kerosene to light your lantern!

These are typically commercial decisions, not engineering decisions.
This does seem to confuse you.

Yes, people like cheap and are not prepared to pay for quality and long life. Hence Pioneer exited TV manufacture (tempting fate but my sisters' plasma is still going 16 years on).
If you don't like the quality of modern products blame yourself and your fellow consumer.

Companies producing fakes is wholly different from planned obsolescence, they're trading on the quality of the products they're knocking off - pretty well the opposite of what you meant.

Products are all designed to last x number of uses/cycles. I think that's what he means by planned obsolescence. You wanna pay $1,000,000 for a car? I'll make it so the car lasts 50 years without a speck of rust. You wanna pay $10,000? The hub bearings are gonna go at 50k miles. Money pays for useful life in the engineering world.

It doesn't. You're right. Most of the time it does though unless you run into a situation where the MBA's have won and formerly solid brands are gutted of value and masquerade garbage as solid products. Unfortunately this seems to be happening more often. Still some good stuff out there, but rarer.

I accidentally paid $7 for a bus ride today because I didn't have exact change. Buses don't give you change? I haven't been on a bus in at least 5 years. I have a car and use Uber. The one time I used a bus and I end up having this experience. How do I even get off of this bus I am on?

The bus driver is Nigerian by the way. Not that that matters but it didn't make the loss of money any easier.

I suspect there also exist engineers who are proponents of planned obsolescence, as it is to their own monetary benefit. It's disingenuous to put all of that on the bean counting suits.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I accidentally paid $7 for a bus ride today because I didn't have exact change. Buses don't give you change? I haven't been on a bus in at least 5 years. I have a car and use Uber. The one time I used a bus and I end up having this experience. How do I even get off of this bus I am on?

The bus driver is Nigerian by the way. Not that that matters but it didn't make the loss of money any easier.

I've seen exact change joked about in things like movies and comic strips. It seems like someone who's never ridden a bus should be prepared for this.

Also, "not that it matters but?" Why even bring it up like it was an extra twist of the knife or something?