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KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,787|4887|949

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

Sure, but do you trust Iran? Would you like to live in a world where they have nuclear weapons? I'm all for reducing the embargoes and allowing them to reenter the world markets, but I draw the line at allowing them to build nuclear enrichment facilities.
What are you going to do about it anyway? Aren't you against foreign intervention?
I am, yes. I'm not advocating invasion. I think Trump in general is doing a good job on foreign policy. He's been tough, but with an end goal of making deals. I think he's done a good job with North Korea, I think he's doing what is long overdue with China, and he called Europe out on their military spending. These are all good things. Right now he's escalating with Iran to bring them back to the negotiating table. This shit is working. He's certainly made Obama look like a completely ineffectual pussy.
you are such a smooth-brained toad.  That's the only conclusion i can come to anyone who thinks Trump is doing a good job on foreign policy.  From a strictly practical perspective, removing the US from the global negotiating table by publicly calling out traditional allies, implementing border and entry policies that have not been well-thought out, and engaging directly with foreign leaders without involving advisors or having any fucking clue about what the historical relationship is with the country you are engaging in is a lesson in how NOT to engage in foreign policy. 

"He's been tough!" Can you link to ONE action he has implemented that would lead you to believe this? Do you want to know how NOT to engage in foreign policy diplomacy? Capitulating to North Korea in the form of suspending or ending joint military exercises in South Korea without getting any type of conciliatory action or concession from North Korea is the opposite of being tough.  He has done absolutely nothing to move along an agreement with North Korea, because all he cares about is the dog and pony show (I come to this conclusion based on the fact that Trump keeps talking about the meetings and great discussions, using props like the letter and agreements agreeing to meet for more meetings as evidence of progress, as opposed to, you know, actual, measurable and quantifiable points of any kind).

"He is doing what is long overdue with China". You support his protectionist measures? You support import taxes? I must have been reading your last 7 years of forum posts completely wrong, what with the championing of neoliberal market policies.  No, increasing taxes and facing retaliatory measures are actually a good thing that benefits the US, because it punishes China at the detriment of the US? What is long overdue wrg to China?

"He is escalating with Iran to bring them back to the negotiating table" that he pulled away! Obama got real concessions from Iran regarding their nuclear program, and was able to get multilateral support for his deal (using global pressure).  As of now, Iran has not agreed to anything with the U.S., and is no longer curtailing uranium enrichment, whereas they were under Obama. What a win, Trump!

Trump is acting unilaterally without understanding big pictures and using the threat of force to try to get foreign powers to capitulate. That approach to foreign policy has terrible outcomes, based on historical examples. He is alienating the US in the perceptions of the rest of the world, and calling out traditional allies in the process.  He is reversing literal decades of positive political capital the US has built up through diplomacy in the world, and probably set the US back 30 years on the international stage, which will result in future presidents offering numerous good-faith approaches to restore the global standing of the US. The US is stuck watching as the rest of the world is moving on, forming multinational alliances, regional trade agreements and engaging in international diplomacy. In a world where these types of agreements are enacted, it benefits the US to have a strong seat at the table. We don't, and it will take a long time and a lot of effort to restore that.

But yes, he said some stuff about Europe. Did you know Europe already agreed to increase their military spending (and contributions to NATO) before Trump was president?

I could go in to a "Foreign Policy 101" type diatribe but it's pointless. The threat of military action is never the first step in negotiation. Trump doesn't know that because he doesn't care.  His idea of making deals was borne out of mafia and 1980's NY business. He is literally a caricature of what people in the '80's thought was a good business man - power suits, strong handshakes and adding positive adjectives when describing anyone. It's like he read an "Intro to Business" book at boarding school and cribbed everything he read and never bothered to learn anything else.

I don't like the overall view the US takes regarding foreign policy, and that hasn't changed. However, within the confines of that approach, Trump is failing.  But you're more worried about him proving that Obama is a pussy, so you really are el sapo.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,965|3613|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:


What are you going to do about it anyway? Aren't you against foreign intervention?
I am, yes. I'm not advocating invasion. I think Trump in general is doing a good job on foreign policy. He's been tough, but with an end goal of making deals. I think he's done a good job with North Korea, I think he's doing what is long overdue with China, and he called Europe out on their military spending. These are all good things. Right now he's escalating with Iran to bring them back to the negotiating table. This shit is working. He's certainly made Obama look like a completely ineffectual pussy.
you are such a smooth-brained toad.  That's the only conclusion i can come to anyone who thinks Trump is doing a good job on foreign policy.  From a strictly practical perspective, removing the US from the global negotiating table by publicly calling out traditional allies, implementing border and entry policies that have not been well-thought out, and engaging directly with foreign leaders without involving advisors or having any fucking clue about what the historical relationship is with the country you are engaging in is a lesson in how NOT to engage in foreign policy. 

"He's been tough!" Can you link to ONE action he has implemented that would lead you to believe this? Do you want to know how NOT to engage in foreign policy diplomacy? Capitulating to North Korea in the form of suspending or ending joint military exercises in South Korea without getting any type of conciliatory action or concession from North Korea is the opposite of being tough.  He has done absolutely nothing to move along an agreement with North Korea, because all he cares about is the dog and pony show (I come to this conclusion based on the fact that Trump keeps talking about the meetings and great discussions, using props like the letter and agreements agreeing to meet for more meetings as evidence of progress, as opposed to, you know, actual, measurable and quantifiable points of any kind).

"He is doing what is long overdue with China". You support his protectionist measures? You support import taxes? I must have been reading your last 7 years of forum posts completely wrong, what with the championing of neoliberal market policies.  No, increasing taxes and facing retaliatory measures are actually a good thing that benefits the US, because it punishes China at the detriment of the US? What is long overdue wrg to China?

"He is escalating with Iran to bring them back to the negotiating table" that he pulled away! Obama got real concessions from Iran regarding their nuclear program, and was able to get multilateral support for his deal (using global pressure).  As of now, Iran has not agreed to anything with the U.S., and is no longer curtailing uranium enrichment, whereas they were under Obama. What a win, Trump!

Trump is acting unilaterally without understanding big pictures and using the threat of force to try to get foreign powers to capitulate. That approach to foreign policy has terrible outcomes, based on historical examples. He is alienating the US in the perceptions of the rest of the world, and calling out traditional allies in the process.  He is reversing literal decades of positive political capital the US has built up through diplomacy in the world, and probably set the US back 30 years on the international stage, which will result in future presidents offering numerous good-faith approaches to restore the global standing of the US. The US is stuck watching as the rest of the world is moving on, forming multinational alliances, regional trade agreements and engaging in international diplomacy. In a world where these types of agreements are enacted, it benefits the US to have a strong seat at the table. We don't, and it will take a long time and a lot of effort to restore that.

But yes, he said some stuff about Europe. Did you know Europe already agreed to increase their military spending (and contributions to NATO) before Trump was president?

I could go in to a "Foreign Policy 101" type diatribe but it's pointless. The threat of military action is never the first step in negotiation. Trump doesn't know that because he doesn't care.  His idea of making deals was borne out of mafia and 1980's NY business. He is literally a caricature of what people in the '80's thought was a good business man - power suits, strong handshakes and adding positive adjectives when describing anyone. It's like he read an "Intro to Business" book at boarding school and cribbed everything he read and never bothered to learn anything else.

I don't like the overall view the US takes regarding foreign policy, and that hasn't changed. However, within the confines of that approach, Trump is failing.  But you're more worried about him proving that Obama is a pussy, so you really are el sapo.
You're a Bernie bro. You really have no standing to question anyone else's intelligence.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4361|eXtreme to the maX
Yeah, cos Trump has a like genius-level IQ!
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
SuperJail Warden
Member
+192|1975
Neocons and democratic socialist both agree that Trump doesn't know what he is doing in relations to foreign policy. There is no consistency or plan to it. Of course since he is getting criticized by "both sides" Jay thinks that means he is doing something right.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4361|eXtreme to the maX
Sometimes there doesn't seem to be consistency or a plan until after the event and we learn what the plan was all along.

The priority for the neo-cons and evangelists running the White House is to knock down Israel's enemies.

Hence Iran having a civilian nuclear power program is a handy excuse to bomb them to oblivion. North Korea having nuclear weapons and ICBM programs matters not at all - just as long as Israel is dominant come the end-of-times - which could be brought about by North Korea's nuclear weapons, no matter I guess.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,965|3613|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Neocons and democratic socialist both agree that Trump doesn't know what he is doing in relations to foreign policy. There is no consistency or plan to it. Of course since he is getting criticized by "both sides" Jay thinks that means he is doing something right.
No, it's just my own opinion. We tried shunning entire countries for decades and nothing changed. Did the Castros get overthrown? No. Did the Kim family get overthrown? No. Try something new. I cheered on Obama when he opened up travel to Cuba. If Clinton had won and and tried something new I'd be happy too. She wouldn't,  because she's a neocon, but anyway. Status quo wasn't working. Only idiots keep doing the same ineffective thing over and over.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4361|eXtreme to the maX
I can agree that flailing around like an angry baby throwing the toys out of his cot is "something new"
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,787|4887|949

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Neocons and democratic socialist both agree that Trump doesn't know what he is doing in relations to foreign policy. There is no consistency or plan to it. Of course since he is getting criticized by "both sides" Jay thinks that means he is doing something right.
No, it's just my own opinion. We tried shunning entire countries for decades and nothing changed. Did the Castros get overthrown? No. Did the Kim family get overthrown? No. Try something new. I cheered on Obama when he opened up travel to Cuba. If Clinton had won and and tried something new I'd be happy too. She wouldn't,  because she's a neocon, but anyway. Status quo wasn't working. Only idiots keep doing the same ineffective thing over and over.
I agree that doing something different is a good idea. Nuking every country but the US is classified as "doing something different." and we can all agree that's not a good idea. Using twitter to implement foreign policy is not a good idea.  Calling foreign leaders names like a fucking 5 year old isn't great diplomacy!

Just because he is upending the global status quo doesn't mean it's a good thing. His actions are directly leading to a weakened US on the international stage.

Jay: I don't like identity politics, I hate how the liberals use it as a political cudgel

Also Jay: You're a bernie bro, dude, therefore I dismiss anything you say.

What exactly is a bernie bro?
SuperJail Warden
Member
+192|1975

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Neocons and democratic socialist both agree that Trump doesn't know what he is doing in relations to foreign policy. There is no consistency or plan to it. Of course since he is getting criticized by "both sides" Jay thinks that means he is doing something right.
No, it's just my own opinion. We tried shunning entire countries for decades and nothing changed. Did the Castros get overthrown? No. Did the Kim family get overthrown? No. Try something new. I cheered on Obama when he opened up travel to Cuba. If Clinton had won and and tried something new I'd be happy too. She wouldn't,  because she's a neocon, but anyway. Status quo wasn't working. Only idiots keep doing the same ineffective thing over and over.
Obama tried something new with the Iranians and attempted to make peace after 30 years of animosity and you called him a pussy for trying. Then Trump comes and decides to checks notes revert Iran policy back to 2005. You applauded this. Unless you can point at some major diplomatic victory Trump has achieved over Iran, your own logic failed.

Secondly, you mentioned Cuba. Trump is trying to reserve the opening in relations between the U.S. and Cuba. How does that fit in with your logic of Trump success?
SuperJail Warden
Member
+192|1975
I like following those reddit subs like /r/combatfootage and /r/militaryporn that post war and fighting videos. Cool stuff but the comments whenever it is Americans fighting are always such a turn off. A bunch of Americans getting worked up about how great our guys kicked some peasant ass in Fallujah even though the locals left a hundred American bodies.

"What an absolute warrior"
https://i.redd.it/f7ma4jf8kja31.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qR6JqQC.gif
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,787|4887|949

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I like following those reddit subs like /r/combatfootage and /r/militaryporn that post war and fighting videos. Cool stuff but the comments whenever it is Americans fighting are always such a turn off. A bunch of Americans getting worked up about how great our guys kicked some peasant ass in Fallujah even though the locals left a hundred American bodies.

"What an absolute warrior"
TODO: FIX GAL IMAGES
neckbeard subs full of wannabe soldiers are full of edgelord comments.  What will your investigative journalism uncover next?
uziq
Member
+157|1707
you don't get to look down on those people when you spend your spare time doing that. that's like joining a bunch of incel boards and lording it over them because you slept with your teaching assistant. way to go buddy!
SuperJail Warden
Member
+192|1975
Good points guys.

I think I am mostly annoyed by the the fact that we are expected to cheerlead the mechanized invaders while denigrating the people just defending their country.
uziq
Member
+157|1707
you're not expected to cheerlead anyone. you spend your time on military porn subreddits, for some reason. you are your own irritant.

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