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coke
Aye up duck!
+435|4850|England. Stoke

Dilbert_X wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Trump is manipulating the market and has some bond trader in his pocket who is making a killing on his behalf.
He's blatantly doing it, on his visit to Iraq on xmas day he said something like "you need those 173 billion, you'll get it, and don't tell anyone, it's 'secret' you''ll get more".
Insider trading much.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,602|4247|eXtreme to the maX

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Perhaps it's related to our governments cohesive and all-encompassing economic policy that totally isn't based on how some early-stage alzhiemers old fart feels when he wakes up that day.
Never mind Alzheimers, Trump's mind is the product of never being forced to be disciplined or rigourous in any way.

If you have kids you do need to slap them down from time to time, for their personal development.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
SuperJail Warden
Member
+185|1861
The sad thing is that there is still a core 40% of the country that looks at him and sees a symbol of competence and intelligence. They will never abandon him. Even Bush had a 33% approval rating at the end. Even if we are in the middle of a recession and the Russia investigation proves Trump did collusion with Russians, he would still carry the Midwest and deep South in the 2020 election.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,602|4247|eXtreme to the maX
Maybe there's a Dunning-Kruger by proxy effect.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia
"zomg! there's a propaganda war going on out there, who'd have thought?!!?!??!!1one!!eleven!!?!"
this is the best pot-kettle thing i've seen recently. awsm.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia

coke wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Trump is manipulating the market and has some bond trader in his pocket who is making a killing on his behalf.
He's blatantly doing it, on his visit to Iraq on xmas day he said something like "you need those 173 billion, you'll get it, and don't tell anyone, it's 'secret' you''ll get more".
Insider trading much.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+150|1593

Shahter wrote:

"zomg! there's a propaganda war going on out there, who'd have thought?!!?!??!!1one!!eleven!!?!"
this is the best pot-kettle thing i've seen recently. awsm.
crazy people, thanks to the internet and russia, really think hillary clinton is running a child sex ring from the basement of a pizza shop. we live in crazy times. i never claimed propaganda is surprising or a revelation. normally it’s a little more straight-laced and credible. like russia not shooting down civilian jetliners over ukraine. and not poisoning ex-agents on sovereign soil. amirite?
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia
you are totally right. russia did not shoot down civilian airliners over ukraine, did not poison ex-spies on sovereign soil, did not meddle in any elections, did not send troops to support separatists in donbass - did not do anything of the kind, unless it's been proven. and proof requires something a wee bit more substantial than what crazy people are having hammered into them by propaganda in the "civilized" west (or in russia for that matter).
so, have you seen some kinda proof that's not been cooked up by nyt, cnn, theguardian, belling-<cough>-cat or the likes? no? then there's nothing to discuss. good night.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+150|1593
why is bellingcat a cough-worthy source? it's a non-profit organisation with volunteer contributors. does publishing anything in a media format disqualify all investigation? i don't know what qualifies for 'truth' in russia, via what method or which proof, and i don't think i want to know, either. the mystical-conspiratorial bullshit makes my head hurt.

also all of the above cases have been attested to by world governments and professional organisations. you make it sound like these are just phantasms concocted by over-imaginative writers and news-media outlets. real legal investigations have been undertaken and real experts have given real testimony. but of course, that elusive russian 'truth' criterion ... 'there can be no legal process, there can be no experts, there can be no honest testimony in the corrupt west ... because you use CAPITALISM'. watertight reasoning! the venal and compromised west could never conduct an objective investigation into a massive air-crash tragedy because we are all in love with money, profit, corporations, iPhones ...

i really hope in a few years when this putin thing is over that the next incumbent does what krushchev did for stalin and releases a bunch of state files or intelligence. credulous peasants like shahter will finally be out of (im)plausible denialability.

Last edited by uziq (2019-01-04 17:17:54)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

why is bellingcat a cough-worthy source?
because they can post whatever they want with no repercussions.

it's a non-profit organisation with volunteer contributors.
how do you know that?

does publishing anything in a media format disqualify all investigation?
if sources are credible and accountable, and info is verifiable - no.

i don't know what qualifies for 'truth' in russia
the same stuff that should qualify for truth everywhere.

via what method
via official government agencies accountable for stuff they post and claims they make.

or which proof, and i don't think i want to know, either. the mystical-conspiratorial bullshit makes my head hurt.
as you wish. keep chewing on the line of crap you are being fed all you want.

also all of the above cases have been attested to by world governments and professional organisations.
quotes, please. of an official government agency of a western nation which has been... uhm... "wronged" by russia, communicating to russian counterparts (or international authorities russia recognizes) with accusations and proof. let's see it.

i really hope in a few years when this putin thing is over that the next incumbent does what krushchev did for stalin and releases a bunch of state files or intelligence.
you do know that a lot of that shit has been forged, right? oh, you don't? sorry, i forgot - you only chew on whatever gets pushed your way through western media. oh, well.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,602|4247|eXtreme to the maX

Shahter wrote:

you are totally right. russia did not shoot down civilian airliners over ukraine, did not poison ex-spies on sovereign soil, did not meddle in any elections, did not send troops to support separatists in donbass - did not do anything of the kind, unless it's been proven. and proof requires something a wee bit more substantial than what crazy people are having hammered into them by propaganda in the "civilized" west (or in russia for that matter).
so, have you seen some kinda proof that's not been cooked up by nyt, cnn, theguardian, belling-<cough>-cat or the likes? no? then there's nothing to discuss. good night.
Media organisations across the world makes stuff up all the time don't they?

https://www.space.com/42902-china-moon- … racks.html
Clearly swamp-gas reflected off a weather balloon distorted into an anti-china story by those maniacs at space.com

Next you'll be telling us Stalin was a nice guy who has been demonised by jewish historians.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-01-04 20:52:34)

Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

Media organisations across the world makes stuff up all the time don't they?

https://www.space.com/42902-china-moon- … racks.html
Clearly swamp-gas reflected off a weather balloon distorted into an anti-china story by those maniacs at space.com
wat

Next you'll be telling us Stalin was a nice guy who has been demonised by jewish historians.
stalin a nice guy? no, not really. but he was clearly demonized by historians, yes (some of which were probably jewish, by i don't think that matters).

Last edited by Shahter (2019-01-05 11:50:49)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+185|1861
More Russia drama came out today.

Meh

I think this Russia election thing is serious and might have swung the election to Trump. But the bigger issues is the cultural and political malaise within America in the first place. Russia didn't create that and if the Russian all died today, it wouldn't go away either.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,602|4247|eXtreme to the maX
The bigger bigger issue is that a nation of 325,000,000 can't put up a single decent candidate.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

The bigger bigger issue is that a nation of 325,000,000 can't put up a single decent candidate.
the bigger bigger bigger issue is that only a tiniest minority of those 325,000,000 gets to put up any candidates at all.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,602|4247|eXtreme to the maX
Unlike Russia where Putin puts up himself.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

Putin puts up himself.
not really. russia is not different from any other capitalist nation out there, where it's the ruling class that puts candidates up. the only difference between, say, clinton and putin is cultural: russian voters want a strong and authoritative leader, and brain dead liberal americans want a first woman president. the fact of the matter - none of those people, once elected, are really accountable for anything they do in office - as long, of course, as it advances the agenda of those who put them up as candidates.
capitalism and democracy are mutually exclusive.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+150|1593
russian voters want a strong and authoritative leader because they are basically peasants who weren't given proper time to develop a bourgeois-secular mindset like the western countries did organically. putin is like stalin is like nicholas: tsars, gods-on-earth for the orthodox and credulous. funny that you blame capitalism for this problem with the agenda-driven ruling classes. desiring a strongman absolute leader is very fucking pre-capitalist.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,602|4247|eXtreme to the maX
Whatever they desire they don't have a lot of alternative do they?
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
uziq
Member
+150|1593
wonder why?
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|4916|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

russian voters want a strong and authoritative leader because they are basically peasants who weren't given proper time to develop a bourgeois-secular mindset like the western countries did organically. putin is like stalin is like nicholas: tsars, gods-on-earth for the orthodox and credulous. funny that you blame capitalism for this problem with the agenda-driven ruling classes. desiring a strongman absolute leader is very fucking pre-capitalist.
all fair ponts. but people who, supposedly, did have time to "develop a bourgeois-secular mindset organically" still elect trumps and bolsonaros today. wonder why?

Last edited by Shahter (2019-01-15 11:39:49)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+185|1861
bolsonaro is good though
uziq
Member
+150|1593

Shahter wrote:

uziq wrote:

russian voters want a strong and authoritative leader because they are basically peasants who weren't given proper time to develop a bourgeois-secular mindset like the western countries did organically. putin is like stalin is like nicholas: tsars, gods-on-earth for the orthodox and credulous. funny that you blame capitalism for this problem with the agenda-driven ruling classes. desiring a strongman absolute leader is very fucking pre-capitalist.
all fair ponts. but people who, supposedly, did have time to "develop a bourgeois-secular mindset organically" still elect trumps and bolsonaros today. wonder why?
economic depressions always create the same political patterns. i’d rather have a politics that is responsive to the market and expressive of social feelings and unrest than an authoritarian regime that lines the pockets of their family and friends and runs the entire country into ruin.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+185|1861
America wasn't in the middle of a crisis when we elected Trump. The current crisis in the U.K. was self inflicted too.
uziq
Member
+150|1593
the ‘recovery’ from the recession meant stagnating wages, zero-hours contracts, precarious employment and a massive transfer of wealth/bailout funds to the 0.1%. it was a decade ago and resentment runs deep. how long did it take for hitler to come to power after the collapse of weimar? the economy collapsed under hyperinflation around what, 1923? hitler came to power in 1933. ...

anti-globalism, misdirected or not, is entirely a symptom of the global recession and the perception of an order of capitalist elites who don’t understand the common man. hillary vs trump is nothing but establishment, neoliberal capital against populism in most rhetorical exchanges. people feel a loss in their personal quality of life/household budget and look outwards and upwards.

Last edited by uziq (2019-01-16 10:53:57)

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