I am at jury duty. I may have a man's life in my hands soon.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +648|4024
Wow you really are an idiot.Shahter wrote:
i dunno.coke wrote:
Isn't one of the biggest selling newspapers in Russia?Shahter wrote:
i dunno.wait... you said that like "political leanings" was something ordinary and to be expected from in a news producing organisation, huh? wasn't proper "free press" supposed to be objective? come to think of it, what does "biggest selling" have to do with anything again? i thought it was about freedom of press and... eh... independence or some shit - but it's all measured in... money?But you don't know it's political leanings...?
I like the way your completely deflecting the fact that one of the most popular therefore influential newspapers in Russia which is known to to favour/back Putin, has basically confirmed the bellingcat info that you were so eager to poo-poo.
As for a "free press" you don't really have one in Russia so, especially from a newspaper that's owned by a gas oligarch. Newspapers having political leanings is how it works, that doesn't stop it being a "free press" ffs.
And no it's not to do with money ffs, it's to do with how large the readership is and therefore how much influence and reach it has.
I guessing you don't read newspapers and stick to conspiracy theory blogs and such.
Stop being such an obtuse bell end, and address the elephant in the room.
Last edited by coke (2018-10-01 11:14:31)
shahter seems to think that the concept of 'a free press' and 'freedom of the fourth estate' means that every single newspaper will be THE OBJECTIVE TRUTH and work to a scientific or epistemological ideal. he doesn't understand that a free press literally means the freedom from political compulsion or influence -- that is, the freedom to be political if one wishes. no surprises that the daily mail are right-wing and the morning star is a communist paper. wow i guess there is no freedom or truth in the west!!!
the idea in a democracy is that papers are free to print what they want and an informed democratic demos will have all the tools at their disposal to make up their own minds; liberal democracy depends upon good, open exchange of information, upon transparency (that's why every newspaper has an editorial 'masthead', often laying out its explicit vision). in russia, where most papers and tv media are ran by the kleptocracy of putin's pals from the 90s/00s, that is not possible. the fact that the guardian has a centre-left bias isn't a critical issue in the west because there are dozens of other equally free and independent newspapers to consult. journalists aren't murdered in the street here. and yes, some of them even volunteer for organisations and work for free! wow!
the idea in a democracy is that papers are free to print what they want and an informed democratic demos will have all the tools at their disposal to make up their own minds; liberal democracy depends upon good, open exchange of information, upon transparency (that's why every newspaper has an editorial 'masthead', often laying out its explicit vision). in russia, where most papers and tv media are ran by the kleptocracy of putin's pals from the 90s/00s, that is not possible. the fact that the guardian has a centre-left bias isn't a critical issue in the west because there are dozens of other equally free and independent newspapers to consult. journalists aren't murdered in the street here. and yes, some of them even volunteer for organisations and work for free! wow!
Last edited by uziq (2018-10-01 10:48:58)
Also the fact he's pretending to have no inkling about the newspaper in question, seems to be like someone in UK denying the existence of the Daily Mail because they disagree with one of their articles.
yeah ... this is one of the most bizarre instances of stubbornness i think i have ever seen. it's borderline pathological. every new angle or link just opens up another matryoshka doll of feigned ignorance.
what's funny is that it's not exactly earth-shattering news to anyone that russia, or any country for that matter, engages in covert intelligence work like this. i doubt an american would have the same paranoid response to being told the CIA assassinated people in south america. when i mentioned it i only really wanted to get a russian's hot take on his government's activities, not to open up a howling void of conspiracy nut stupidity.
what's funny is that it's not exactly earth-shattering news to anyone that russia, or any country for that matter, engages in covert intelligence work like this. i doubt an american would have the same paranoid response to being told the CIA assassinated people in south america. when i mentioned it i only really wanted to get a russian's hot take on his government's activities, not to open up a howling void of conspiracy nut stupidity.
Last edited by uziq (2018-10-01 11:30:08)
Check out what we got at work
Box seems awful large for it.
And yet you seem oblivious to a newspaper (now one of the most popular in Russia) which began:Shahter wrote:
sometimes - when i forget that media is just another tool of the ruling class to project their power over the masses. i'm old enough to remember actual soviet propaganda
"During the Soviet era, Komsomolskaya Pravda was an all-union newspaper of the Soviet Union and an official organ of the Central Committee of the Komsomol. Established in accordance with a decision of the 13th Congress of the Russian Communist Party (b), it first appeared on 24 May 1925[2] in an edition of 31,000 copies.
Komsomolskaya Pravda began as the official organ of the Communist Union of Youth, or Komsomol, the youth wing of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. As such, it targeted the same 14 to 28 demographic as its parent organization, focusing initially on popular science and adventure articles while teaching the values of the CPSU. During this period, it was twice awarded the Order of Red Banner of Labour (in 1950 and 1957), and was also the recipient of the Order of Lenin (in 1930), of the Order of the October Revolution (in 1975), and of the Order of the Patriotic War (in 1945)."
And during the 90's was selling over 20 million copies daily, after it became a privately owned tabloid.
that’s considered a delicacy in scotland, with their diets. it was probably delivered on a velvet cushion by a courier. entire roads were closed.DesertFox- wrote:
Box seems awful large for it.
/sighcoke wrote:
one of the most popular therefore influential newspapers in Russia
no, kp is not "one the most popular and influential newspaper" in russia. you've been had. again.
really? how does a commercial organisation become political again? for lulz? and, which is even more interesting, how does a "free and independent" newspaper remain on one side of political spectrum for... basically, forever like most western ones?Newspapers having political leanings is how it works, that doesn't stop it being a "free press"
no? why did you mention money then?And no it's not to do with money
there's no elephant in the room, there's bellingcat. and no, i'm not... ehm... "addressing" that shit. i'm not a newspaper and don't need to sell copies.Stop being such an obtuse bell end, and address the elephant in the room.
Last edited by Shahter (2018-10-02 01:00:51)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
i don't read kp. precisely for the reasons explained in that post you quoted.coke wrote:
And yet you seem oblivious to a newspaper (now one of the most popular in Russia) which began:Shahter wrote:
sometimes - when i forget that media is just another tool of the ruling class to project their power over the masses. i'm old enough to remember actual soviet propaganda
"wikipedia quite be 'ere"
money. again. you keep making my point for me - why not, you know, simply agree with me?And during the 90's was selling over 20 million copies daily, after it became a privately owned tabloid.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
his point is that mainstream, establishment russian press are credibly reporting upon bellingcat info. you can bloviate as much as you want about money and ‘the impossibility of truth’, but you are ignoring his very obvious point. if bellingcat is a joke, western nonsense, why are mainstream russian media reporting it? media which aren’t exactly known for being savage critics of putin and huge anglophiles.
Last edited by uziq (2018-10-02 02:18:56)
moneyuziq wrote:
if bellingcat is a joke, western nonsense, why are mainstream russian media reporting it?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
riiiiight
Shahter wrote:
money. again. you keep making my point for me - why not, you know, simply agree with me?
Literally you are the only one mentioning money, in your wilful misconstruing of my point about circulation numbers... Agree with you on what exactly? I can agree that you can't answer simple questions and turn every argument or piece of evidence on it's head, other than that I can't see what I'm supposed to be agreeing upon.
And I've been "had" about it being one of the biggest selling papers, the other day you "didn't know", now you do but provide no info at all. You don't read it because of what I posted, but again the other day you knew nothing about it.
And I'm sure this newspaper owned by a billionaire, has decided to suddenly back bellingcat, to sell a few extra copies... when in all likelihood doing so is more likely to cost them readers.
Last edited by coke (2018-10-02 07:29:59)
What's a road?uziq wrote:
that’s considered a delicacy in scotland, with their diets. it was probably delivered on a velvet cushion by a courier. entire roads were closed.DesertFox- wrote:
Box seems awful large for it.
My dumbass Republican (but I repeat myself) uncle talks an awful lot of shit about "librulz" for someone who literally went through a divorce last year because his wife was seeing other dudes. He is unambiguously a cuck.
i know a guy (in-law of a close friend) who is literally an alcoholic who can't hold a job but holds libruls and democraps accountable for his life's failings. His dad (my friend's father in law) is as equally shitty, without the alcoholism. The guy has no discernible skill and has received some form of government assistance for the past 30 years but goes on and on about government handouts. The cognitive dissonance is insane. At one of his son's weddings, he had an 8 page speech he rifled through, talking about his service in Vietnam, his OTHER son's current service, and at one point quoted Jack Nicholson's speech in "A Few Good Men" ("you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall!). Part of his speech was about how he didn't know if he could trust his future daughter-in-law because she voted for Obama. This was a wedding speech.
is jay available for comment? it only seems fair.
I'm sure I've done my 'entitled and hypocritical boomers' rant at least once already.
I have tired of hearing my father tell me I should be the CEO of my own company by now, he having retired at 50 with a gold-plated pension from his well-paid lifelong govt job, obtained on the basis of mediocre A-Levels, and done literally nothing since.
I do look forward to a few things, the collapse of the 'classic car' market in which so many boomers have their money 'invested' and the demise of many non-tech businesses they believed were their nest-egg. My barber asked me what I thought he could sell his business for - a pair of scissors and a signboard? I dunno.
Otherwise both sides claim the other is irrational but it does seem that Right-wing free-market libertarians have no connection with reality or even minimal self-awareness.
I have tired of hearing my father tell me I should be the CEO of my own company by now, he having retired at 50 with a gold-plated pension from his well-paid lifelong govt job, obtained on the basis of mediocre A-Levels, and done literally nothing since.
I do look forward to a few things, the collapse of the 'classic car' market in which so many boomers have their money 'invested' and the demise of many non-tech businesses they believed were their nest-egg. My barber asked me what I thought he could sell his business for - a pair of scissors and a signboard? I dunno.
Otherwise both sides claim the other is irrational but it does seem that Right-wing free-market libertarians have no connection with reality or even minimal self-awareness.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2018-10-03 02:53:47)
Fuck Israel
to be fair dilbert you are probably the exact same to people in younger generations than yourself. the ‘i earned all my success, suck it up you jealous slackers’ cognitive dissonance is widespread. it tallies nicely with the general decline of growth in the west and the increasing aging population burden.
someone attending university today will probably struggle to attain a lifelong career in a graduate role that actually pays off their huge debt burden, whereas, for eg, you attended university with no fees (or large grants). so it goes.
someone attending university today will probably struggle to attain a lifelong career in a graduate role that actually pays off their huge debt burden, whereas, for eg, you attended university with no fees (or large grants). so it goes.
Last edited by uziq (2018-10-03 03:27:23)
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +648|4024
I know this one guy who calls himself a libertarian but took government handouts most of his adult life. He went into the military and got his college paid for by government. He then took college grants for poor people in order to buy a meal plan at the college he didn't live at. But he will argue to death he is a self made man and didn't take handouts.
Last I heard he was installing HVAC systems into public schools.
Last I heard he was installing HVAC systems into public schools.
lmao
I've never claimed I earned all my success as far as I remember, I've had huge advantages. The debt burden and limited prospects for the graduates of today are a disgrace.uziq wrote:
to be fair dilbert you are probably the exact same to people in younger generations than yourself. the ‘i earned all my success, suck it up you jealous slackers’ cognitive dissonance is widespread. it tallies nicely with the general decline of growth in the west and the increasing aging population burden.
someone attending university today will probably struggle to attain a lifelong career in a graduate role that actually pays off their huge debt burden, whereas, for eg, you attended university with no fees (or large grants). so it goes.
I have said that too many people are going to University to study spurious subjects instead of doing things more realistic and practical, this is how it was 'in my day' except I was one of the few who went to University - through luck as much as talent.
Even if the system did revert there just aren't the jobs there used to be, low-level functions are automated, multliple tiers of middle-management no longer exist, and everyone is now saddled with the debt the 'self-sufficient generation' has dumped on us.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2018-10-03 04:28:36)
Fuck Israel
i don’t disagree with your point about too many people going to the university of bottomshire to do media studies or psychology (or business or sports science or any of that lark). it’s a waste of everyone’s time. i’ve always maintained that the top tier of universities offering humanities should remain, much as they did with their limited and exclusive/elite track into actual graduate roles back in your day (plenty of CEOs with those ‘useless’ arts degrees...)
my point was more like, ‘why don’t you own your own company by now?’ is the ‘why aren’t you a homeowner?’ to people of my generation. people seem to aggrandise what they have to themselves.
my point was more like, ‘why don’t you own your own company by now?’ is the ‘why aren’t you a homeowner?’ to people of my generation. people seem to aggrandise what they have to themselves.