Ha ha OKRussian Spam-bot wrote:
uh-huh. motive, means and opportunity - the cornerstones of any criminal case, and the first two are noticably absent from theresa & co' version of this one.
Fuck Israel
bizarre. they have cctv of two russian men travelling via the airport to salisbury. they have their london hotel room, which has traces of novichok inside it. they have cctv of them wandering around salisbury. these two russians, travelling to a small town in southern england during the exact time of the incident, just happened to be members of the russian intelligence service. they have the fake packaging and the dispersal device. but no, there is no evidence, it is all a fabrication. the reason? the west's curious translation of the word 'novichok'!!!
this video timestamps them at the area of the crime during the exact same time. shahter you are a moron
this video timestamps them at the area of the crime during the exact same time. shahter you are a moron
Last edited by uziq (2018-09-06 05:09:20)
let me tell you what they don't have again:zeek wrote:
they have this...
... they have that...
1. motive. peole who they accuse of organizing this whole shebang had no reason to.
2. means. under no circumstances consistent with independently verified case data could poor skripals have survived had they actually been poisoned by what theresa & co insist they were poisoned with.
i'll let you connect the other dots. good day.
Last edited by Shahter (2018-09-06 05:56:12)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
the whole point of showing the evidence is as a reprimand and a gloat to russian intelligence: look how badly you bodged it. i don't think any government secret service is really so naive as to suppose that governments don't run espionage missions in foreign countries (i mean, the same GRU fucked up in qatar recently and the qatari government showed the world about it, too).
supposedly the chemical agent was applied to a door handle and neither person received a full-contact dose. likewise, the man who later fell ill was only in the vicinity of it. the woman who directly sprayed her skin with it, thinking it was perfume, was noted as receiving a far higher dose and died almost immediately. so all this 'they couldn't possibly have survived' is a lot of air-headed supposition and counterfactualism. the facts, as they stand, are that two people did receive a dose of a chemical identified as novichok, that they survived after being in round-the-clock intensive care, essentially on life support, and that 2 russian GRU agents were in the same tiny english town at the exact same time.
let's take it circumstantially (even though we don't need to as we have the 'smoking gun'). why were 2 GRU agents taking a 3-day holiday to the UK at this time? one day they got a train from london to salisbury, a trip that takes 2 hours and requires 1/2 changes of train, and merely stood around the station before going home. they came back immediately next day and spent 2/3 hours in the town, before, again, getting the train back to london -- and then flying straight home the next morning. is the russian state so great and beneficent that it regularly allows its state employees this sort of holiday leave? sounds great!!! russian tourists are even better than chinese ones!
supposedly the chemical agent was applied to a door handle and neither person received a full-contact dose. likewise, the man who later fell ill was only in the vicinity of it. the woman who directly sprayed her skin with it, thinking it was perfume, was noted as receiving a far higher dose and died almost immediately. so all this 'they couldn't possibly have survived' is a lot of air-headed supposition and counterfactualism. the facts, as they stand, are that two people did receive a dose of a chemical identified as novichok, that they survived after being in round-the-clock intensive care, essentially on life support, and that 2 russian GRU agents were in the same tiny english town at the exact same time.
let's take it circumstantially (even though we don't need to as we have the 'smoking gun'). why were 2 GRU agents taking a 3-day holiday to the UK at this time? one day they got a train from london to salisbury, a trip that takes 2 hours and requires 1/2 changes of train, and merely stood around the station before going home. they came back immediately next day and spent 2/3 hours in the town, before, again, getting the train back to london -- and then flying straight home the next morning. is the russian state so great and beneficent that it regularly allows its state employees this sort of holiday leave? sounds great!!! russian tourists are even better than chinese ones!
Last edited by uziq (2018-09-06 08:59:34)
^it's almost like someone actually looked at the evidence and someone else is wilfully ignoring it...
All the evidence produced and there's fucking plenty for both MH17 and the Skripal poisoning.
But nah let's ignore cus Shather can't see why they would have a motive lol
All the evidence produced and there's fucking plenty for both MH17 and the Skripal poisoning.
But nah let's ignore cus Shather can't see why they would have a motive lol
us, canada, france and germany all back us based on the evidence.
wait, this isn't evidence! it's ideology, pure and simple! the cold war never ended!!!
wait, this isn't evidence! it's ideology, pure and simple! the cold war never ended!!!
maybe. maybe not. no concrete info is available, so one has to go by on general stuff. and general stuff available is pretty straightforward - skripals should have been dead on the spot. but, according to may and her clowns they went roaming around for hours after coming into contact with a weapon grade nerve agent. sorry, i'm noit buying it.uziq wrote:
supposedly the chemical agent was applied to a door handle and neither person received a full-contact dose.
russian GRU agents? how exactly have they been identified as such? oh, no evidence supporting that claim was presented, may simply said they were? right. gtfo, would you kindly.and that 2 russian GRU agents were in the same tiny english town at the exact same time.
Last edited by Shahter (2018-09-06 10:24:01)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
exactly.uziq wrote:
us, canada, france and germany all back us based on the evidence.
wait, this isn't evidence! it's ideology, pure and simple! the cold war never ended!!!
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
so you're saying they've identified the men by name and appearance and somehow ... made up that they are GRU agents? like wtf. they entered the country with passports, no?Shahter wrote:
maybe. maybe not. no concrete info is available, so one has to go by on general stuff. and general stuff available is pretty straightforward - skripals should have been dead on the spot. but, according to may and her clowns they went roaming around for hours after coming into contact with a weapon grade nerve agent. sorry, i'm noit buying it.uziq wrote:
supposedly the chemical agent was applied to a door handle and neither person received a full-contact dose.russian GRU agents? how exactly have they been identified as such? oh, no evidence supporting that claim was presented, may simply said they were? right. gtfo, would you kindly.and that 2 russian GRU agents were in the same tiny english town at the exact same time.
what's it like having such a perverse relationship to the truth? you'd make a good early mystic. the world is a 1,000 veils of illusion!
they could have made all the stuff about identities of those people up, yes. it makes perfect sence if, for example, this whole affair was a fabrication. which, btw, would explain other things i pointed out.uziq wrote:
so you're saying they've identified the men by name and appearance and somehow ... made up that they are GRU agents?Shahter wrote:
maybe. maybe not. no concrete info is available, so one has to go by on general stuff. and general stuff available is pretty straightforward - skripals should have been dead on the spot. but, according to may and her clowns they went roaming around for hours after coming into contact with a weapon grade nerve agent. sorry, i'm noit buying it.uziq wrote:
supposedly the chemical agent was applied to a door handle and neither person received a full-contact dose.russian GRU agents? how exactly have they been identified as such? oh, no evidence supporting that claim was presented, may simply said they were? right. gtfo, would you kindly.and that 2 russian GRU agents were in the same tiny english town at the exact same time.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
There we have irrefutable proof, it makes sense to ignore all the evidence, if you believe it's all made up in the first place.
No arguing that logic.
It's like debating with a flat earther...
No arguing that logic.
It's like debating with a flat earther...
Last edited by coke (2018-09-06 12:15:19)
/sighcoke wrote:
There we have irrefutable proof, it makes sense to ignore all the evidence
again, here are the claims by may and her clowns for which there's no evidence at all, so there's simply nothing to ignore, even if one wanted to:
1. putin or anyone in russian military / intelligence service wanted to kill skripal, or even had a reason to do so.
2. skripals were poisoned with a nerve agent in the way may & co claim they were.
3. two men on the pictures released by the police are GRU agents.
no evidence whatsoever for any of this shit has been presented. so, just as everybody else here, i was speculating about what could have been. you know, making guesses? talking in could have, may have and stuff like that? iffefutable proof my ass.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
btw, i just looked through this... uhm... let's call it exchange of ideas and noticed that none of you dipshits still posted anything about the motive in this.
so, anyone? why would putin risk alienating half the world by poisoning a worthless shit like skripal? and with a weapon grade nerve agent at that, which is about as suitable an assasination tool as a bullet made of shit?
so, anyone? why would putin risk alienating half the world by poisoning a worthless shit like skripal? and with a weapon grade nerve agent at that, which is about as suitable an assasination tool as a bullet made of shit?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +640|3935
Russia delenda est
Skripal was about to and still has released a book...
Motive: you fuck with Putin we kill you horribly (but fail) and we can just deny it anyway, Litvinenko came off worse, useful idiots with the internet will deny it enough to muddy the waters.
The fact you don't even see this says it all to be honest.
And again you clearly haven't looked at any of the evidence presented, have you...
Again the Earth is flat.
Motive: you fuck with Putin we kill you horribly (but fail) and we can just deny it anyway, Litvinenko came off worse, useful idiots with the internet will deny it enough to muddy the waters.
The fact you don't even see this says it all to be honest.
And again you clearly haven't looked at any of the evidence presented, have you...
Again the Earth is flat.
Last edited by coke (2018-09-06 16:57:03)
i like how all the evidence and information presented here is bracketed to one side and yet the 'missing motive' is the giant mystery. lmao.
hmm a defector living in the west (supposedly) gets assassinated by russian secret service. i mean what is the link here?????? make u think
hmm a defector living in the west (supposedly) gets assassinated by russian secret service. i mean what is the link here?????? make u think
Last edited by uziq (2018-09-07 02:11:28)
It was never a bodge, except for not actually killing the Skripals, it was a brazen slap in the face from Putin to Britain and its intelligence services - Russia can send operatives to Britain, they can walk around undisguised in broad daylight, (nearly)kill people supposedly under the protection of the govt and get away scot-free - and there's absolutely nothing Britain can do about it this time or the next.uziq wrote:
the whole point of showing the evidence is as a reprimand and a gloat to russian intelligence: look how badly you bodged it.
Presumably there are different concentrations of this stuff, I'm guessing this wasn't the most concentrated grade.supposedly the chemical agent was applied to a door handle and neither person received a full-contact dose. likewise, the man who later fell ill was only in the vicinity of it. the woman who directly sprayed her skin with it, thinking it was perfume, was noted as receiving a far higher dose and died almost immediately.
Fuck Israel
no no, there is no MOTIVE, and the MOTIVE could have been made up, just like the EVIDENCE.
It's all a plot by the western powers to make Russia look bad, guys.
Shahter keeps such an open mind that his brain fell out.
It's all a plot by the western powers to make Russia look bad, guys.
Shahter keeps such an open mind that his brain fell out.
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I am all that is mong.
Fuck Israel
coke wrote:
Motive: you fuck with Putin we kill you horribly (but fail) and we can just deny it anyway
right. so, basically, putin the arch-evil, who's routiney and publicly called monster, murderer and what not in the western media and on the high levels of power, compared to stalin, hitler - i think i even saw satan and sauron, but i'm not sure - one day thought "nah. that's not enough. we need to bolster that reputation some more. litvinenko story's getting stale, politkovskaya and nemtsov were not insignificant enough, and magnitsky was a bloody accountant - nobody likes thouse. let's find somekinda really really forgotten and worthless dude and murder him in the most idiotic way possible - that ought to draw some attention and make my reputation totally shitty. also, let's do it right on the verge of re-election and football world cup in moscow - just for lulz."Dilbert_X wrote:
It was never a bodge, except for not actually killing the Skripals, it was a brazen slap in the face from Putin to Britain and its intelligence services - Russia can send operatives to Britain, they can walk around undisguised in broad daylight, (nearly)kill people supposedly under the protection of the govt and get away scot-free - and there's absolutely nothing Britain can do about it this time or the next.
there seem to be an interesting trend in the way your free and enlightened leaders and media portray those they don't like - they are almost always dubbed total madmen. lenin, stalin, hitler, mao, fidel, saddam, kim(s), putin, quaddafi, assad, bin-laden (wasn't mad at first, but went totally coo-coo at a point when he turned against them) - and they do it regardless of what those people do and the prowess some of them display in the fields like politics, leadership, some even philosofy and literature. i wander... maybe it's because you can attribute just about anything to that particularly handy human trait - madness? any hole in your case, any lack of reasonable motive - who cares, they are nuts, who can tell why'd they do what they do.
and you seem to be chewing on that line of crap just as it was intended.
Last edited by Shahter (2018-09-08 00:08:10)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
i dunno. it's not me making claims and throwing accusations here.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It's all a plot by the western powers to make Russia look bad, guys.
but, unlike horrible putin, the "western powers" do actually have a motive.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
So Russia had no possible motive whatsoever but the "western powers" do.Shahter wrote:
i dunno. it's not me making claims and throwing accusations here.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It's all a plot by the western powers to make Russia look bad, guys.
but, unlike horrible putin, the "western powers" do actually have a motive.
It seems to me you are THE one making claims and throwing accusations with absolutely no evidence at all, were as all the evidence provided by professionals and independent sources you can just ignore completely.
What sort of evidence would actually like to see that would in your eyes convince you?
Because at the minute it looks like I could literally murder someone right in front of you and you'd find me not guilty in court, because you didn't know what my motive was...
Edit: also Putin "success" and popularity in Russia largely relies on his strongman image, and the siege "them against us" mentality that been created in Russia, events and the subsequent denials only strengthen his position in Russia, I doubt he really cares about his wider global public image and why should he.
And to be fair I probably should have put you fuck with "Russia" but it's semantics.
Last edited by coke (2018-09-08 08:48:54)
they could have. it's just i neither heard of nor have come up with one myself that wasn't totally implausible yet.coke wrote:
So Russia had no possible motive whatsoeverShahter wrote:
i dunno. it's not me making claims and throwing accusations here.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It's all a plot by the western powers to make Russia look bad, guys.
but, unlike horrible putin, the "western powers" do actually have a motive.
of course. look it up and see for yourself just how many new sactions were imposed on russia because of skripal incident.but the "western powers" do.
then read again. i pretty much asknowledged everything that's been independently verified in this case, it just wasn't much - not nearly enough to form anything conclusive. and you'll just have to forgive me for not taking may & co up on their word - that's the way i am, sorry.It seems to me you are THE one making claims and throwing accusations with absolutely no evidence at all, were as all the evidence provided by professionals and independent sources you can just ignore completely.
that would depend on what you want to convince me of. putin ordering the attack? - that's pretty much unprovable. russia being involved? - i already posted what imo needs to be explained and independently verified, haven't i? here's a recap for you:What sort of evidence would actually like to see that would in your eyes convince you?
1. skripals were poisoned with a-234 and somehow survived the encounter.
2. dudes on the photoes posted by the police were GRU agents.
the second one would alone pretty much nail it, but the first is also important imo - miracles in criminal cases are generally a bad thing.
if you actually offed someone in front of me i'd testify against you in court. they'd still need more than my testimony to convict you though, including, in most cases, the motive.Because at the minute it looks like I could literally murder someone right in front of you and you'd find me not guilty in court, because you didn't know what my motive was...
i don't remember where you hail from (edit: ah, there it is - england. silly me), but don't you think it'd look presumtious on my part if i started describing what it was like there in so much detail?Edit: also Putin "success" and popularity in Russia largely relies on his strongman image, and the siege "them against us" mentality that been created in Russia, events and the subsequent denials only strengthen his position in Russia
you are not wrong though. still, there's sizable opposition to putin here - more than enough to be seriously concerned - and they would like nothing better than have more crap to smear putin's image with.
he does, imo. he'd never admit it, but his game is really hurt by the sanctions imposed on russia.I doubt he really cares about his wider global public image and why should he.
knock yourself out. you are nothing but e-letters on an internetz web-page for me, i couldn't care lees what you "put me with".And to be fair I probably should have put you fuck with "Russia" but it's semantics.
Last edited by Shahter (2018-09-08 11:18:01)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
You've comepletely misunderstood the last part, I meant I should have put Russia and not Putin in the original quote...
And as you say I wasn't far wrong with my description oh how Putin operates and maintains power, I wasn't trying to tell you how your country, just giving a widely held view on it.
Surviving a nerve agent isn't somehow miraculous if you receive the actually rather basic medical attention in time, which you have a reasonable amount of, when dermal absorption is the delivery method.
And there's plenty of stuff tracking these guys movements on the passports they were using and their backgrounds, I doubt anything apart from the GRU admitting they are payed employees is gonna convince you...
It's sort of the whole point of the whole deniability element.
And as you say I wasn't far wrong with my description oh how Putin operates and maintains power, I wasn't trying to tell you how your country, just giving a widely held view on it.
Surviving a nerve agent isn't somehow miraculous if you receive the actually rather basic medical attention in time, which you have a reasonable amount of, when dermal absorption is the delivery method.
And there's plenty of stuff tracking these guys movements on the passports they were using and their backgrounds, I doubt anything apart from the GRU admitting they are payed employees is gonna convince you...
It's sort of the whole point of the whole deniability element.