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SuperJail Warden
Member
+180|1733
anyway it turns out my friend didn't die of a heroin overdose. he was on suboxone for his opioid dependence. he committed suicide using his brand new xanax proscription. his uncle who was raising him after my friend's dad committed suicide in '96 tried to make his death seem like a random drug overdose but it was obvious in retrospect.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2018-02-08 16:24:28)

uziq
Member
+143|1465
c'mon man. we don't need to see his picture. what do looks or outward success have to do with someone's inner life? everyone has their breaking point and their own weaknesses.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+704|4698|United States of America

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Way to cherry-pick a bunch of people well-known for their drug use (and PSH, but I don't know much about his personal life) and sprinkle in the "weak people" phrase that no one but you has said. Oxycontin wasn't released until 1996, with an aggressive marketing campaign and certain outright lies. It's not surprising the current crisis affects more vastly more average people than those you've picked.
You're probably too young to remember the heroin epidemic of the early 90s, but it was rampant way before prescription painkillers became the bogeyman. Prescription drugs have been abused since they were invented. It's nothing new. I remember when I was in middle school we had a D.A.R.E. class that spoke of the dangers of barbituates and amphetamines and qualudes etc. That stuff was all hot in the 60s (curricula are always at least two decades behind it seems) and it was a crisis among... wait for it... middle class white people - specifically bored housewives. There's always some sort of media hyped "epidemic" with a story line pushed by drug warriors. Take it with a grain of salt.
It is true that prescription drug abuse has always been a thing. That is nothing new. What is new is the scope of this current problem. If I look at literally the top picture on the wiki page about the topic...

It appears there is a trend in recent years.

Last edited by DesertFox- (2018-02-08 16:59:19)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,599|4119|eXtreme to the maX
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Overdose_Deaths_Involving_Opioids%2C_United_States%2C_2000-2015.jpg
Its gone from 1 to 3 per 100,000? Seems like a fairly small epidemic.

What the heroin dealers need is better marketing, lean on the 'freedom' aspect.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6epDUawzBDk/URrTXNEGj5I/AAAAAAAAASE/xCSwx2e8bgo/s1600/Gun-Deaths-Graph-Large.jpg
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+704|4698|United States of America

Dilbert_X wrote:

TODO: FIX GAL IMAGES
Its gone from 1 to 3 per 100,000? Seems like a fairly small epidemic.

What the heroin dealers need is better marketing, lean on the 'freedom' aspect.
We refer to that as "tripling". In addition to the total on that chart going from ~6 to ~22 in 15 years, that is a concerning shift from a public health standpoint.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,599|4119|eXtreme to the maX
Triple very little is still very little.

But we can't have the govt meddling in what kind of products they sell and to whom. The important thing is to let the mechanism of the free market deal with it, in the long run everything will balance out - if every American is dead they'll have no-one to sell to, their share price will slide and they'll have to develop new products and find new markets. Its called checks and balances.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,961|3371|London, England

DesertFox- wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

TODO: FIX GAL IMAGES
Its gone from 1 to 3 per 100,000? Seems like a fairly small epidemic.

What the heroin dealers need is better marketing, lean on the 'freedom' aspect.
We refer to that as "tripling". In addition to the total on that chart going from ~6 to ~22 in 15 years, that is a concerning shift from a public health standpoint.
It's still only 4,000 people per year for heroin. Seriously, that's "who cares?" territory.

And only 33,000 people per year for all opioids. Again, negligible.

Last edited by Jay (2018-02-09 06:10:49)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,776|4645|949

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

TODO: FIX GAL IMAGES
Its gone from 1 to 3 per 100,000? Seems like a fairly small epidemic.

What the heroin dealers need is better marketing, lean on the 'freedom' aspect.
We refer to that as "tripling". In addition to the total on that chart going from ~6 to ~22 in 15 years, that is a concerning shift from a public health standpoint.
It's still only 4,000 people per year for heroin. Seriously, that's "who cares?" territory.

And only 33,000 people per year for all opioids. Again, negligible.
I hope you never have someone in your family die from opoids so they never have to hear you say "who cares"

you're a real piece of shit
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+704|4698|United States of America
You can split hairs over the numbers being large enough to be impressive or not, but as a matter of public health, they show a marked increase in needless and preventable deaths.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,961|3371|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:


We refer to that as "tripling". In addition to the total on that chart going from ~6 to ~22 in 15 years, that is a concerning shift from a public health standpoint.
It's still only 4,000 people per year for heroin. Seriously, that's "who cares?" territory.

And only 33,000 people per year for all opioids. Again, negligible.
I hope you never have someone in your family die from opoids so they never have to hear you say "who cares"

you're a real piece of shit
I'm a piece of shit because out of 330,000,000 people 33,000 die from opioids and I say that in the grand scheme that number is negligible? Statistically speaking, I'm correct. I'm not saying it's not tragic, it is, but it's not worth the mass hysteria being pushed by the media and drug warriors.

I have plenty of addiction issues in my own family. I'm not trying to minimize anyone's pain and suffering. I've seen the destruction addiction causes first hand. But it's one of those control the things you can control situations. We've spent many billions of dollars on education, rehabilitation, punishment and interdiction and all it's done is create mega rich cartels and massive amounts of crime by pushing the issues underground.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,961|3371|London, England

DesertFox- wrote:

You can split hairs over the numbers being large enough to be impressive or not, but as a matter of public health, they show a marked increase in needless and preventable deaths.
I'm sorry, but you're using the same logic as the people who told everyone to stop eating bacon because it might cause like 3 cancer deaths and was thus preventable.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+180|1733
Why do you want people to die Jay?
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+704|4698|United States of America

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

You can split hairs over the numbers being large enough to be impressive or not, but as a matter of public health, they show a marked increase in needless and preventable deaths.
I'm sorry, but you're using the same logic as the people who told everyone to stop eating bacon because it might cause like 3 cancer deaths and was thus preventable.
But your logic in that case is: if the amount of cancer deaths triples in a decade and why know why, it still does not warrant taking any action.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,961|3371|London, England

DesertFox- wrote:

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

You can split hairs over the numbers being large enough to be impressive or not, but as a matter of public health, they show a marked increase in needless and preventable deaths.
I'm sorry, but you're using the same logic as the people who told everyone to stop eating bacon because it might cause like 3 cancer deaths and was thus preventable.
But your logic in that case is: if the amount of cancer deaths triples in a decade and why know why, it still does not warrant taking any action.
It matters if it's statistically significant. Would you spend millions to research a cancer free bacon or would you just accept that 3 deaths are statistically insignificant and the cost isn't worth the effort?

In this case we're spending (have spent) hundreds of billions of dollars with a quantifiably negative return. Not all opioid use is bad. They really do help millions of people deal with pain. Some people abuse them and become addicted. If people like Sessions had their way no one would be prescribed anything more powerful than Motrin.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,961|3371|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Why do you want people to die Jay?
You cant save everyone.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,599|4119|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Way to cherry-pick a bunch of people well-known for their drug use (and PSH, but I don't know much about his personal life) and sprinkle in the "weak people" phrase that no one but you has said. Oxycontin wasn't released until 1996, with an aggressive marketing campaign and certain outright lies. It's not surprising the current crisis affects more vastly more average people than those you've picked.
also dilderp, heroin was glamorous in rock music. it was part of those social circles from the velvet underground on (and it was the drug of choice in hip-cool jazz circles for plenty of time before that). of course if you're a rockstar, heroin is going to be around you, heroin addicts and heroin pushers too. you are eliding fucking rock stars with average weekend drug-taking edwards. i think rockstars, writers, poets, etc., getting addicted to heroin is like a self-perpetuating little sideshow. that's a very weird subcultural 'glamour' that your suburban kid experimenting with molly is never going to get.
I'm sure those people had a complete smorgasbord of drugs to choose from, money was no object, and yet they gravitated to heroin.
It would be interesting to know why, I doubt there was any 'glamour' to it for them, there's no a whole lot of glamour in boiling up your own blood and reinjecting it into yourself., it was their use which lent glamour to it.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2018-02-09 17:58:26)

Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,599|4119|eXtreme to the maX

DesertFox- wrote:

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

You can split hairs over the numbers being large enough to be impressive or not, but as a matter of public health, they show a marked increase in needless and preventable deaths.
I'm sorry, but you're using the same logic as the people who told everyone to stop eating bacon because it might cause like 3 cancer deaths and was thus preventable.
But your logic in that case is: if the amount of cancer deaths triples in a decade and why know why, it still does not warrant taking any action.
Mainstream cancer deaths are obviously a significant issue, but let say its an obscure cancer which affected 3,000 people a year and were completely avoidable if people would just not lick five toads a day, would it really warrant spending billions of dollars a year on?

The average person would just say maybe toad-lickers should try to limit their toad-licking to one or two a day, or ideally none at all, and spend the govt time and money on something else, something which afflicts more people and not through their own poor decision making.
No need to eradicate all the toads, toad-traffickers and toad-farmers in the world or wage war on countries whose agricultural capabilities are crimped by geology and climate and whose most profitable export is lickable toads either just because a small number of people can't control their toad-licking impulses.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2018-02-09 21:52:14)

Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+704|4698|United States of America
I am unable to comprehend the toad metaphor, so I have no rebuttal.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,599|4119|eXtreme to the maX
Maybe this will help

https://static-media.fxx.com/img/FX_Networks_-_FXX/867/362/Simpsons_11_15_P3.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ePSrqbEgmQM/T1qaS96vMjI/AAAAAAAAAcs/aBIMtXSsl08/s1600/homer_eyes2.jpg
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,599|4119|eXtreme to the maX
Incidentally, its both sad and funny in a strange way hearing my Vietnamese colleague trying to score drugs over the phone for her husband through flaky pharmacists.

"Hello, you speak Vietnamese? OK! Gah buk pha dung do? Bah doh drik Oxycontin? Bleh fah drek poh cash dollars bep? OK! Fak dum ing buh Saturday? Gleep gep dung bah!"
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,776|4645|949

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:


It's still only 4,000 people per year for heroin. Seriously, that's "who cares?" territory.

And only 33,000 people per year for all opioids. Again, negligible.
I hope you never have someone in your family die from opoids so they never have to hear you say "who cares"

you're a real piece of shit
I'm a piece of shit because out of 330,000,000 people 33,000 die from opioids and I say that in the grand scheme that number is negligible? Statistically speaking, I'm correct. I'm not saying it's not tragic, it is, but it's not worth the mass hysteria being pushed by the media and drug warriors.

I have plenty of addiction issues in my own family. I'm not trying to minimize anyone's pain and suffering. I've seen the destruction addiction causes first hand. But it's one of those control the things you can control situations. We've spent many billions of dollars on education, rehabilitation, punishment and interdiction and all it's done is create mega rich cartels and massive amounts of crime by pushing the issues underground.
I would expect that someone that admitted to having addition issues within THEIR OWN FAMILY would understand that there's not some zero sum where addiction is OK unless it results in death.  Unfortunately, dying is probably the BEST outcome for addicts unless they can get themselves sober.  Until then, it's pain and suffering and emotional and social and familial hysteria, breakdowns, and destruction.  But keep holding up the death toll as a reason to not address the problem.

YOU ARE A DUMMY.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+180|1733
Could you merge the mass shooting thread with the dead white people one?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,961|3371|London, England
My mom has six brothers. Two are ok. One has severe brain damage because he hit a tree while drunk. One is an alcoholic that lives in a trailer in Vermont and lives off public assistance. One had a severe coke problem that forced him to sell his business and flee the state. He almost died from alcoholism last year. The last is a crackhead that served time three times for armed robbery. I have one cousin that went to rehab when he was 15 for PCP and has struggled his entire adult life. My dad is an alcoholic. My stepfather is a recovering alcoholic.

I tried helping all of them. My mom tried. My grandparents tried until the day they died.

They all decided that partying was more important than living. There's only so much you can do before you become numb and just defensively shield yourself from it all. People generally don't want to be saved, it would mean abandoning their friends and their experiences and having to dwell on all their fuckups.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+180|1733
Jay you are one back injury away from crack addiction it seems
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,961|3371|London, England
It's possible. I drink like once a month and don't do drugs. I learned what not to do from my family.

My addiction issues manifested in video games. At one point I was playing 14 hours a day for months on end. My wife made me choose between her and gaming, and I definitely made the right choice. Now I'm addicted to my smart phone...

Last edited by Jay (2018-02-15 18:44:44)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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