Middle-Aged White Americans Are Dying in Greater Numbers

2017-01-06 14:13:21

#51

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

uziq wrote:
SuperJail Warden wrote:
Oxycontin started being sold in 1997. What a disaster.

$25 billion in sales for Purdue Pharma though.
and now you have fentanyl too to step up the opiates game.

america's approach to pill popping looks very weird to us in europe, i think. even a few years ago, when you had a big underground drug culture around recreational painkiller abuse. who the fuck abuses painkillers? that is no one's idea of a good high. these things are massively over-prescribed and people are getting hooked. same shit with the casual use of benzos.

it's not as much of a public health issue but obviously the carousel of anti-depressants/anti-psychotics are a big background noise, too. 20 years ago you guys were a prozac nation. things like ritalin/adderal are massively over-prescribed to young children.

private healthcare is a nightmare in this respect.

opiates blowing up so big was partly due to how well drug enforcement agencies and the media managed to stigmatize and suppress harder drugs like meth and crack. the suburban kids i grew up with who did pain meds wouldn't dare try crack or meth because those things are for poor rednecks and black people. they didn't have the connections to get either of those either. which is pretty sad since both of those addictions are less deadly. my friends james cook and brian gannon would still be alive if they had gotten into meth instead of opiates.

there are a lot of doctors out there who don't care what they proscribe either. i walked into a doctors office at the age of 21 and complained about having trouble sleeping and got myself a 30 day supply of ambien no questions asked or even a follow up date by an immigrant doctor.

2017-01-07 15:37:45

#52

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

One of my cranky theories is that giving kids paracetamol predisposes them to meth addiction.

And other drugs which are closely linked to nerve agents.

Gotta start them young

https://pharmacycentral.com.au/media/catalog/product/n/u/nuforen-baby-3months-50ml.png

Fuck Israel

2017-01-09 17:35:32

#53

coke: Aye up duck!; +440|6924|England. Stoke

Nurofen isn't paracetamol.

2017-01-09 23:23:37

#54

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

coke wrote:
Nurofen isn't paracetamol.

You're right, its another drug which has who knows what long term effect.

Fuck Israel

2017-01-10 14:32:44

#55

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

Yeah babies should not be given painkillers. They can't even talk yet. They need to tough it out.

2017-01-14 11:29:51

#56

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6987|PNW

Is nobody else going to talk about the HAL 9000 on Nurofen's box?

2017-01-15 13:56:29

#57

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6368|what

I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.

2018-02-01 16:15:34

#58

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

29 year old childhood friend of mine died of a heroin overdose Tuesday. I am pretty sad but at the same time...don't do heroin, people. It is not hard to not shoot up.

2018-02-04 11:23:23

#59

uziq: Member; +493|3667

i'm sure you don't need me to tell you that people who end up overdosing on heroin or fentanyl with needle-scarred bodies were probably once just nice suburban white kids that broke a bone and had a 3-month prescription that got out of hand. very few people in their right mind pick up a needle and decide to recreationally dabble in heroin.

in fact you said just as much literally on this page ... so no idea why you are being so churlish now.

Last edited by uziq (2018-02-04 11:24:57)

2018-02-04 15:04:37

#60

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

Are you on heroin?

2018-02-04 15:43:10

#61

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +796|6899|United States of America

I just this week listened to a podcast about the history of opium and heroin use in the U.S. There's so many stories of doctors handing out copious amounts of opiods as pain management therapies because we, at a certain point, decided any pain is undesirable. Peoples minds and bodies aren't prepared to deal with the physiological or psychological effects of addiction, and if you can't get morphine or Oxy, you'll get your fix somewhere else. Having never been in that situation, it's all to easy to say "it's not hard to not shoot up."

2018-02-06 01:36:49

#62

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:
i'm sure you don't need me to tell you that people who end up overdosing on heroin or fentanyl with needle-scarred bodies were probably once just nice suburban white kids that broke a bone and had a 3-month prescription that got out of hand. very few people in their right mind pick up a needle and decide to recreationally dabble in heroin.

How many go down the slippery slope?

I'll just take a pill at a party once in a while, maybe do a line of coke now and then just to put me on my A-game, I need to go to more parties, its Friday- party time, oh its Saturday lets do it again, Monday - I'm going to need a boost to face the world after that weekend, shit its the morning again - I can't go out like this, well now heroin is cheaper and less acidic than coke and is being made in a snortable form so whats the difference, I'm sneezing out half this stuff and it costs a fortune, how do I get all of it in my bloodstream?

Fuck Israel

2018-02-07 11:55:27

#63

uziq: Member; +493|3667

in what world does the use of recreational pills and uppers devolve into heroin addiction? people get addicted to opiates on such a scale in the states because they are often routinely taking strong opiate painkillers, on a daily basis, as (over-)prescribed by their health system. that's how dependency and need forms. taking some MDMA at a house party isn't going to lead to being a heroin addict unless you have some serious issues in your life.

i can't think of anyone who has ever turned to heroin after cocaine because it's cheaper and 'less acidic' () than coke. the only instance i can honestly think of people transitioning from cocaine abuse to heroin abuse is in the 80s crack era, with super poor and desperate people. cocaine addicts normally ruin their lives perfectly well with a coke addiction.

has your use of alcohol, an addictive and mind-altering substance, ever led you to depravity and addiction, dilbert? why would it be any different with a 20-year-old kid that does molly at festivals?

Last edited by uziq (2018-02-07 12:01:14)

2018-02-07 13:39:31

#64

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5573|London, England

You're acting like it's a rational decision. People get bored and self destructive and feel helpless and hopeless and they do dumb stuff. Heroin numbs the pain just like booze and weed do. People try it and get hooked. Apparently it's an amazing high. Just because you wouldn't do it yourself doesn't mean it's impossible for others to seek it out.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2018-02-07 17:24:09

#65

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

They could just stay smoking pot. Society teaches people from a young age to stay away from heroin. People know how dangerous it is and still do it anyway. Hell, smoking crack or meth is still a safer alternative.

2018-02-07 17:24:20

#66

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6847|949

i'd say more people get hooked on and die from heroin due to a progression from pain pills to heroin than from pot to heroin or coke to heroin or any other thing. Trying to paint it as a slippery slope from recreational drug use to full blown heroin user in 5 easy steps completely masks over the fact that obsessive marketing and prescribing of pain pills is a major contributor to heroin addiction and overdose.

Sure, people can get addicted to any drugs and segue to other harder stuff. You're far more likely to become a heroin addict if you use prescription painkillers than if you smoke a joint at a reggae concert or do a key bump in the strip club bathroom. Let's address the elephant in the room before we start drilling down outlying factors.

I'm sure you and Dilbert are familiar with the pareto curve or 80/20 rule. You should start applying some of your STEM/BUSINESS! knowledge outside the workplace.

2018-02-07 18:41:17

#67

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5573|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
i'd say more people get hooked on and die from heroin due to a progression from pain pills to heroin than from pot to heroin or coke to heroin or any other thing. Trying to paint it as a slippery slope from recreational drug use to full blown heroin user in 5 easy steps completely masks over the fact that obsessive marketing and prescribing of pain pills is a major contributor to heroin addiction and overdose.

Sure, people can get addicted to any drugs and segue to other harder stuff. You're far more likely to become a heroin addict if you use prescription painkillers than if you smoke a joint at a reggae concert or do a key bump in the strip club bathroom. Let's address the elephant in the room before we start drilling down outlying factors.

I'm sure you and Dilbert are familiar with the pareto curve or 80/20 rule. You should start applying some of your STEM/BUSINESS! knowledge outside the workplace.

I wasn't using the slippery slope or gateway argument. Many people simply choose to escape reality any way they can. Do you think Kurt Cobain or other people in the 90s started with prescription painkillers? Doubtful. Heroin is a standalone issue and has been around for far longer. The real reason we have a heroin epidemic (again) is not because of opioids, but because we invaded Afghanistan and kicked out the Taliban who were burning fields. Now it's cheap and more readily available. Cheap, gets you high... sounds like it would appeal to a certain demographic with nothing to lose.

The bigger problem is the fentanyl it's being cut with. That shit is killing people.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2018-02-07 21:38:29

#68

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

The solution to the opioid epidemic is more fentanyl.

2018-02-08 01:19:31

#69

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

Actually Kurt Cobain did start on painkillers.

However I'm sure all these people didn't.

https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE1ODA0OTcxNDM1Mzk0NTcz/sid-vicious-246010-1-raw.jpg

He died of an overdose of heroin and other drugs

https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE4MDAzNDEwNDUxOTI0NDk0/john-belushi-9206502-1-402.jpg

After a night of partying in Hollywood, he overdosed after injecting a combination of heroin and cocaine into his bloodstream

https://brooklynbowl-2015.ticketfly.com/files/2016/06/1-1-1024x686.jpg

Morrison died when he suffered cardiac arrest due to heroin and cocaine use

For example, there are a few others.

What do they have in common? They're narcissists who thought they could 'handle it' and ended up over their heads.

This guy, somehow, has not died of a heroin overdose. At least he has his health.

https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/keith-richards-5.jpg

But yeah, its all weak people who go straight to heroin after a sprained ankle.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2018-02-08 01:29:01)

Fuck Israel

2018-02-08 04:15:00

#70

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +796|6899|United States of America

Way to cherry-pick a bunch of people well-known for their drug use (and PSH, but I don't know much about his personal life) and sprinkle in the "weak people" phrase that no one but you has said. Oxycontin wasn't released until 1996, with an aggressive marketing campaign and certain outright lies. It's not surprising the current crisis affects more vastly more average people than those you've picked.

2018-02-08 04:28:59

#71

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6321|eXtreme to the maX

But historically its not particularly been average people who have ended up on heroin, its been people who have actively sought it out, and in past times morphine and cocaine were given out by doctors.

Fuck Israel

2018-02-08 05:14:35

#72

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5573|London, England

DesertFox- wrote:
Way to cherry-pick a bunch of people well-known for their drug use (and PSH, but I don't know much about his personal life) and sprinkle in the "weak people" phrase that no one but you has said. Oxycontin wasn't released until 1996, with an aggressive marketing campaign and certain outright lies. It's not surprising the current crisis affects more vastly more average people than those you've picked.

You're probably too young to remember the heroin epidemic of the early 90s, but it was rampant way before prescription painkillers became the bogeyman. Prescription drugs have been abused since they were invented. It's nothing new. I remember when I was in middle school we had a D.A.R.E. class that spoke of the dangers of barbituates and amphetamines and qualudes etc. That stuff was all hot in the 60s (curricula are always at least two decades behind it seems) and it was a crisis among... wait for it... middle class white people - specifically bored housewives. There's always some sort of media hyped "epidemic" with a story line pushed by drug warriors. Take it with a grain of salt.

***

My personal views on drugs are that, while I'm not a personal fan, I don't really care what people do in their own home as long as they aren't stealing to support their habit or driving while high. I'd rather see drug use decriminalized and the money that was spent on incarceration diverted to rehab programs for those who truly do want to get clean. It shouldn't take an overdose for people to qualify for help. At the same time, decriminalization should lead to cleaner, safer products so people aren't overdosing in the first place. When you buy weed in Colorado or California you know exactly what you are getting. That should be a goal.

That said, I wouldn't do anything to change employers who wish to require drug testing. It's their right to protect their business.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2018-02-08 05:29:36

#73

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5573|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
But historically its not particularly been average people who have ended up on heroin, its been people who have actively sought it out, and in past times morphine and cocaine were given out by doctors.

Sure it has. All types of people end up using drugs. It generally starts off as recreational use to alleviate boredom. Usually it's whatever is cheapest, and right now that's heroin or meth.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2018-02-08 12:06:30

#74

uziq: Member; +493|3667

Jay wrote:
You're acting like it's a rational decision. People get bored and self destructive and feel helpless and hopeless and they do dumb stuff. Heroin numbs the pain just like booze and weed do. People try it and get hooked. Apparently it's an amazing high. Just because you wouldn't do it yourself doesn't mean it's impossible for others to seek it out.

people self-destruct, yes, but when booze is readily available at every good store, or cigarettes ... far more lives go down this route. it takes a special sort of desperation to seek out heroin (these conversations about people 'getting bored of coke and getting into heroin' betrays a really silly and naive view of how people buy illicit drugs; good middle-class professionals with a regular coke dealer don't know heroin dealers). america has a heroin epidemic because people are getting hooked on opiates as a class of drug, generally.

of course, being unemployed or broke or structurally disadvantaged means you can spend a lot of days whacked on PCP, crack, meth, pot, whatever ... but this 'slippery slope' argument doesn't really work. i'll agree that there are 'gateway drugs' that break down stigma/fear about taking drugs, but nobody gets fucking bored of abusing cocaine and takes up heroin. whole different drug, whole different effect (most people who get addicted to uppers do so because of their personality/impulsivity; downers are the total opposite appeal), whole different route of administration in most cases.

i think society teaches people pretty well that heroin is a huge fuckup and the absolute worst decision you can make. that level of social stigma does still cling, even for people who see no harm in doing MDMA at a festival or coke at a work's christmas party. heroin is a massive taboo for a reason. plus it involves using needles, and i think 95% of drug users are pretty squeamish/afraid of that stuff. very risky. i have never put a needle anywhere near my body and i am totally blasé about most drugs.

2018-02-08 12:10:25

#75

uziq: Member; +493|3667

DesertFox- wrote:
Way to cherry-pick a bunch of people well-known for their drug use (and PSH, but I don't know much about his personal life) and sprinkle in the "weak people" phrase that no one but you has said. Oxycontin wasn't released until 1996, with an aggressive marketing campaign and certain outright lies. It's not surprising the current crisis affects more vastly more average people than those you've picked.

also dilderp, heroin was glamorous in rock music. it was part of those social circles from the velvet underground on (and it was the drug of choice in hip-cool jazz circles for plenty of time before that). of course if you're a rockstar, heroin is going to be around you, heroin addicts and heroin pushers too. you are eliding fucking rock stars with average weekend drug-taking edwards. i think rockstars, writers, poets, etc., getting addicted to heroin is like a self-perpetuating little sideshow. that's a very weird subcultural 'glamour' that your suburban kid experimenting with molly is never going to get.

Last edited by uziq (2018-02-08 12:11:26)

BF2S Forums Middle-Aged White Americans Are Dying in Greater Numbers

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

coke wrote:

uziq wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

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