BF2S Forums Presidential Election 2016

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

"taxed and dumped into the economy causing inflation". i don't know, increased tax revenues for public services, healthcare, free education, universal basic income sounds pretty good to me. hardly 'dumped'. a lot more productive than parking it in offshore accounts or keeping luxury yacht and tesla coupe production lines busy.

Any time more money is injected into the economy it's going to cause inflation. It's basic supply and demand. As people make more money, demand increases, driving up prices. It's why the $15/hr minimum wage that fast food workers were pushing for across the country is such a terrible idea. All they're going to get out of it, because they are still at the bottom, is increased housing and food costs which will completely erode their gains. Inflation is bad. To a mainstream Keynesian economist, it's a good thing because it erodes savings and forces people to spend, but to your average worker actually dealing with the consequences, it means your salary doesn't go as far as it once did.

yeah... i think redistributive economics is still feasible before the dollar quite becomes a mugabe currency. 'because inflation' is a pretty strange justification for having one of the most unequal societies in the advanced world. norway sure is suffering. doesn't everyone there get a $20,000 a year handout as a share of the state's oil wealth?

Last edited by uziq (2017-02-28 12:30:01)

Jay wrote:

That's the Keynesian theory for maximizing employment, yes. Personally I feel it leads to wild boom and bust cycles. Spending from savings levels things out because even if you lose your job temporarily you can still buy what you need. This, however, requires fiscal discipline that most Americans don't possess.

Putting money into the hands of consumers leads to - guess what - more consumption, which tends to skew towards imports, not investment for the future.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

What's Norway's cost of living?

Doesn't really matter, since they have more money than they need to live, their quality of life is the best in the world and they invest for their children's childrens' future - not chase the next quarter's profits at any cost.

They're a bunch of bjorns with a total population of 4.5mil give or take sitting on huge amounts of oil.

Gee I wonder why their quality of life is so high.

Cybargs wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

What's Norway's cost of living?

Doesn't really matter, since they have more money than they need to live, their quality of life is the best in the world and they invest for their children's childrens' future - not chase the next quarter's profits at any cost.

They're a bunch of bjorns with a total population of 4.5mil give or take sitting on huge amounts of oil.

Gee I wonder why their quality of life is so high.

you can take pretty much any western european country in the world that has a progressive tax system for my point about quality-of-life and better relative inequality.

i used norway as an example of a country where runaway inflation hasn't occurred as a result of massive public spending and lots of cash being in circulation in the economy. yes, the cost of living is higher, and yes, the government holds two mega investment funds, but it's not zimbabwe, is it?

Last edited by uziq (2017-02-28 13:53:53)

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

What's Norway's cost of living?

undoubtedly higher, but people in norway own their own homes, have 6 weeks of paid annual leave per year, and a lot of disposable income. everything costs more, but – hey you were preaching this earlier – they actually go out less, eat out less, and don't insist on all driving hummers. bongggggg.

the simple point i was trying to make is that america's slide towards an oligarchy is not the only model.

I'd say they go out and eat out far more the your average minimum wage earner in the US, considering those in the US need to work about 80 hrs a week just to pay for rent.

DrunkFace wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

What's Norway's cost of living?

undoubtedly higher, but people in norway own their own homes, have 6 weeks of paid annual leave per year, and a lot of disposable income. everything costs more, but – hey you were preaching this earlier – they actually go out less, eat out less, and don't insist on all driving hummers. bongggggg.

the simple point i was trying to make is that america's slide towards an oligarchy is not the only model.

I'd say they go out and eat out far more the your average minimum wage earner in the US, considering those in the US need to work about 80 hrs a week just to pay for rent.

scandinavian cultures are far less wasteful. it's very normal there to take a packed lunch to work. eating out is for special occasions culturally, rather than taco bell or whatever 3 times a week (my gf when she's in new york almost NEVER cooks at home – insane). there's a major cultural difference – everything is taken in moderation and they traditionally are quite frugal. though they are all cash rich now and well-off by western standards, they don't have the same consumerist/buy now on credit culture. i would say all of these things mean the high cost of living is not as crippling as it could be.

uziq wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

uziq wrote:

undoubtedly higher, but people in norway own their own homes, have 6 weeks of paid annual leave per year, and a lot of disposable income. everything costs more, but – hey you were preaching this earlier – they actually go out less, eat out less, and don't insist on all driving hummers. bongggggg.

the simple point i was trying to make is that america's slide towards an oligarchy is not the only model.

I'd say they go out and eat out far more the your average minimum wage earner in the US, considering those in the US need to work about 80 hrs a week just to pay for rent.

scandinavian cultures are far less wasteful. it's very normal there to take a packed lunch to work. eating out is for special occasions culturally, rather than taco bell or whatever 3 times a week (my gf when she's in new york almost NEVER cooks at home – insane). there's a major cultural difference – everything is taken in moderation and they traditionally are quite frugal. though they are all cash rich now and well-off by western standards, they don't have the same consumerist/buy now on credit culture. i would say all of these things mean the high cost of living is not as crippling as it could be.

What are you on about? Scandinavians have the highest personal debt in the world. They are told all their lives that they live in utopia and have such a great life, but it's actually quite difficult to maintain a middle class lifestyle when the government takes 60%. They live in tiny houses and can't afford to go out. What they do buy they buy on credit. Your average Swede has an astronomical mortgage to pay off. You're trying to make it seem like they're living this simple life by choice when they're not. Denmark, in addition to having the largest credit card debt per capita also has the highest number of tax dodgers.

Stop buying the hype. I know the boho chic crap appeals to you but it's nonsense and fake.

Jay wrote:

How many cheeseburgers can a Norwegian buy for $5?

Americans have transferred their debts to their children through government borrowing to fund low taxation, so yes it seems like the average baby-boomer has low debt, low mortage and a great lifestyle of driving to the shops in a military troop transport and cramming as much food into themselves as they can before they die but in fact its a shit lifestyle and their kids are going to pay for it.

Scandinavians take personal responsibility and don't believe its fair to burden their children to fund their own selfishness - its a wholly different culture, you wouldn't understand it.

I suggest you try the 'Europe cure' - spend six months living and working in Europe and then go back to the US and see what you think.
Even lowing was impressed.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2017-02-28 15:26:22)

What do you guys think will happen to the Affordable Care Act? A lot of people don't think they are going to mess around with it too much due to the fact that any further issues with healthcare will be called their fault. But I can see them going full repeal without a replacement and successfully betting on their voters to be dumb enough to reelect them after losing their coverage.

They've had years and years to come up with a replacement.

The plan was always "repeal and replace" without any idea how to replace though. Trump will spout a line about competition and state lines but that's meaningless.

Still doesn't compare with invading a country and not having a plan for the next bit.

Good luck Iran.

An U.S. invasion of Iran would go worse than Vietnam. A naval battle in the Persian gulf would be all us though.

AussieReaper wrote:

Don't mess with a SKS