United States War in Iraq -- Can We Afford to Lose?

2015-12-08 12:16:29

#126

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

But how do the people in the newly independent Balkan states feel? I don't see how people can support dictatorships because they "hold things together" right after it is proven that they couldn't "hold things together".

It is like supporting Assad because the "alternative is worse" and he is "best man to hold together Syria" when he started a civil war by shooting protesters.

2015-12-08 13:25:53

#127

uziq: Member; +493|3666

many people in the Balkan states would prefer Tito. if not milosevic. regions with complex ethnic and religious histories like that do not hop happily into an 'enlightened' and pluralistic democracy. many, many people in the region are nostalgic for Tito.

Last edited by uziq (2015-12-08 13:26:12)

2015-12-08 14:32:29

#128

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

We don't even live in a democracy here. Why would you espouse that worldview? "We want to spread democracy" lol. Neo-conservatism is the absolute least self-aware brand of politics. It's frankly just as stupid as Marxism and its desire to put the means of production into the hands of the assembly line worker.

Let's go bomb people into the stone age and then expect them to sort out how to politically run a country. It's a recipe for kleptocracy and genocide.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2015-12-08 14:49:03

#129

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

There was peace in Iraq when we left.

2015-12-08 14:52:26

#130

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

No there wasn't.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2015-12-08 14:54:05

#131

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

There was. AQII was mostly dormant. They controlled no territory and the tribes were at peace with the U.S.

2015-12-08 14:57:03

#132

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

We need to send troops into northern Iraq. Destroy ISIS open command and movement. Then build a local defense force made up of refugees, moderate rebels, and ISIS defectors. Then have the Iraqi government devolve political power down to the local leaders in Northern Iraq. Then resettle refugees in areas under heavy security and surveillance.

2015-12-08 15:01:47

#133

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

I give up.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2015-12-08 15:05:59

#134

uziq: Member; +493|3666

i think macbeth is in one of those anhedonic trolling phases.

every post he makes sounds like a dissociative episode. i keep thinking of that scene with a psychotic patrick bateman telling his friends calmly over dinner how to fix all the world's problems. affecting conscientiousness and ending up sounding like a yuppie who reads the economist.

2015-12-08 15:10:52

#135

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

Whatever, Uzi. I was going to tell you how to fix Syria next. Your loss.

2015-12-08 15:15:19

#136

RTHKI: mmmf mmmf mmmf; +1,741|6951|Oxferd Ohire

tell me instead

2015-12-08 15:16:12

#137

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6930

SuperJail Warden wrote:
But how do the people in the newly independent Balkan states feel? I don't see how people can support dictatorships because they "hold things together" right after it is proven that they couldn't "hold things together".

It is like supporting Assad because the "alternative is worse" and he is "best man to hold together Syria" when he started a civil war by shooting protesters.

I had a friend whose a Kosovar Serb. Guess how she felt about the NATO bombings and the independence of Kosovo.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2015-12-08 15:21:44

#138

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

RTHKI wrote:
tell me instead

We need to send troops into Eastern Syria and destroy ISIS in cooperation with the Kurdish forces and FSA. Then enforce a no fly zone over rebel territory . Offer the Islamist Saudi and Turkish backed rebels, who are allied our allies the FSA, weapons, supplies, and air protection in exchange for cooperation. Then broker a ceasefire between the government and rebels with each holding onto their territory and begin a process of federalizing the country along ethno-sectarian lines.

2015-12-08 15:26:28

#139

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

Petraeus: Use Al Qaeda Fighters to Beat ISIS

To take down the so-called Islamic State in Syria, the influential former head of the CIA wants to co-opt jihadists from America’s arch foe.
Members of al Qaeda’s branch in Syria have a surprising advocate in the corridors of American power: retired Army general and former CIA Director David Petraeus.

The former commander of U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan has been quietly urging U.S. officials to consider using so-called moderate members of al Qaeda’s Nusra Front to fight ISIS in Syria, four sources familiar with the conversations, including one person who spoke to Petraeus directly, told The Daily Beast.

The heart of the idea stems from Petraeus’s experience in Iraq in 2007, when as part of a broader strategy to defeat an Islamist insurgency the U.S. persuaded Sunni militias to stop fighting with al Qaeda and to work with the American military.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … -isis.html

General Petraeus brought peace to Iraq. If he thinks my idea is the right one, it must be correct. That man is living legend.

2015-12-09 01:38:27

#140

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6320|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:
Overthrowing Gaddafi was the right thing to do and did work. As you can see Gaddafi is no longer in power.

And now Al Qaeda and ISIS are in power in Libya - is that better?

SuperJail Warden wrote:
There was peace in Iraq when we left.

LOL OK

General Petraeus brought peace to Iraq. If he thinks my idea is the right one, it must be correct. That man is living legend.

Petraeus is a retard who should have been shot for spying. Why anyone listens to him now is a mystery.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2015-12-09 01:40:23)

Fuck Israel

2015-12-09 02:10:49

#141

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6930

Dilbert_X wrote:
SuperJail Warden wrote:
Overthrowing Gaddafi was the right thing to do and did work. As you can see Gaddafi is no longer in power.
And now Al Qaeda and ISIS are in power in Libya - is that better?
SuperJail Warden wrote:
There was peace in Iraq when we left.
LOL OK
General Petraeus brought peace to Iraq. If he thinks my idea is the right one, it must be correct. That man is living legend.
Petraeus is a retard who should have been shot for spying. Why anyone listens to him now is a mystery.

petraues shot for spying? then wtf about clinton then.

2015-12-09 09:41:49

#142

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6846|949

SuperJail Warden wrote:
There was peace in Iraq when we left.

we barely controlled the green zone. The fuck are you talking about?

2015-12-09 10:54:17

#143

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

The year we left had an all time low in coalition deaths. It had been trending downward significantly before that.
http://icasualties.org/iraq/ByYear.aspx

2015-12-09 11:02:24

#144

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6846|949

now put up a graph of overall deaths in iraq. how does the downward trend of coalition deaths correlate with peace?

2015-12-09 11:37:00

#145

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
now put up a graph of overall deaths in iraq. how does the downward trend of coalition deaths correlate with peace?

Civilians deaths were also an all time low.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualtie … casualties

Insurgent deaths too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualtie … casualties

Both trending downward. Iraq was moving in the right direction.

2015-12-09 11:54:13

#146

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

Running the numbers again, I still think an intervention in Iraq is the right thing to do. But Lord will it be bloodbath for everyone involved. We should have just let them have it in 2014. That ship has sailed though.

At this point, anyone even tangentially involved with the Bush administration at that time should be disqualified from holding government office.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2015-12-09 11:55:53)

2015-12-09 14:44:57

#147

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:
The year we left had an all time low in coalition deaths. It had been trending downward significantly before that.
http://icasualties.org/iraq/ByYear.aspx

Because they were waiting for us to leave. Tool.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2015-12-09 14:52:30

#148

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

It was still together for awhile after we left. It was the Iranian backed Shia government in Baghdad that ruined it all.

2015-12-09 15:26:01

#149

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6846|949

so then we can agree that there was not peace in Iraq when we left, right?

2015-12-09 15:36:15

#150

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3934

It was peaceful. And getting more peaceful every day.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2015-12-09 15:38:30)

BF2S Forums United States War in Iraq -- Can We Afford to Lose?

SuperJail Warden wrote:

RTHKI wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

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Dilbert_X wrote:

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KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

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