BF2S Forums Toys ‘R’ Us uses H1B Foreign Workers to U.S. to Move Jobs Overseas

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Okay, immigrants occasionally will make a dating app. What does that do for construction workers being replaced by illiterate South American workers? Construction worker jobs have never recovered and they have been hit the hardest by in the influx of immigrants. Especially low skilled one. Not every immigrant is a Ph.D holder. Please don't point to a few highly skilled ones as being representative of the entire lot.

And even if they did create more jobs on the whole, the existence of their communities in the U.S. still weakens the social fabric of this nation.

Construction worker jobs have been filled by immigrants throughout this countries history. Ever see that old photograph of the Ironworkers sitting on a beam of the Chrysler building? All off the boat Italians. Who built the railroads? Chinese and Irish. Who settled the Midwestern farms? Germans and Scandinavians. Low level laborer jobs have historically been the realm of people with little or no english skills, newly arrived.

Don't you have a degree in history? Because you sure look stupid right now.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

any data to back up that immigrants are net job producers, or is it all anecdotal feel good stories?  The first two articles are of no relevance.  The last actually has data, but it only tackles it from the perspective of how immigrants contribute to job growth.  Any data that shows overall that immigrants are net producers?

I don't agree at all with the idea that immigrants deteriorate the social fabric of the US.  American culture and society is peppered with little jewels provided my immigration - it's a common thread that has woven American society from the very beginning.  You can make an argument that immigration has fucked up Native American society, sure.  We don't have a rich cultural history because we were literally founded by immigrants dude.  It's an integral part of Americana.

I think immigration from European countries is completely different from immigration in the 21st century. Africans, Asians, Hispanics and others on the individual level may assimilate but as a community they will never. You kidnap some ethnically French, Dutch, Swedish, Italian and Portuguese infants and raise them in some small town in Kentucky, they will 100% see themselves as Americans and would never know otherwise. You can't do that with modern immigrates at all. It's biological dude.

Then according to you you're part of the problem aren't you? Why not deport yourself?

SuperJail Warden wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

any data to back up that immigrants are net job producers, or is it all anecdotal feel good stories?  The first two articles are of no relevance.  The last actually has data, but it only tackles it from the perspective of how immigrants contribute to job growth.  Any data that shows overall that immigrants are net producers?

I don't agree at all with the idea that immigrants deteriorate the social fabric of the US.  American culture and society is peppered with little jewels provided my immigration - it's a common thread that has woven American society from the very beginning.  You can make an argument that immigration has fucked up Native American society, sure.  We don't have a rich cultural history because we were literally founded by immigrants dude.  It's an integral part of Americana.

I think immigration from European countries is completely different from immigration in the 21st century. Africans, Asians, Hispanics and others on the individual level may assimilate but as a community they will never. You kidnap some ethnically French, Dutch, Swedish, Italian and Portuguese infants and raise them in some small town in Kentucky, they will 100% see themselves as Americans and would never know otherwise. You can't do that with modern immigrates at all. It's biological dude.

The negative narratives put forth today about Hispanics and Africans and Asians are parrots of what people said about Italians and Irish people in the early 1900's.  It comes across as mildly xenophobic.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

any data to back up that immigrants are net job producers, or is it all anecdotal feel good stories?  The first two articles are of no relevance.  The last actually has data, but it only tackles it from the perspective of how immigrants contribute to job growth.  Any data that shows overall that immigrants are net producers?

I don't agree at all with the idea that immigrants deteriorate the social fabric of the US.  American culture and society is peppered with little jewels provided my immigration - it's a common thread that has woven American society from the very beginning.  You can make an argument that immigration has fucked up Native American society, sure.  We don't have a rich cultural history because we were literally founded by immigrants dude.  It's an integral part of Americana.

I think immigration from European countries is completely different from immigration in the 21st century. Africans, Asians, Hispanics and others on the individual level may assimilate but as a community they will never. You kidnap some ethnically French, Dutch, Swedish, Italian and Portuguese infants and raise them in some small town in Kentucky, they will 100% see themselves as Americans and would never know otherwise. You can't do that with modern immigrates at all. It's biological dude.

The negative narratives put forth today about Hispanics and Africans and Asians today are parrots of what people said about Italians and Irish people in the early 1900's.  It comes across as mildly xenophobic.

Germans were despised as pig eating Dutchmen too. And Swedes were hated for being dull and uncouth.

Read Main Street by Lewis someday.

I really can't believe I'm arguing that white people aren't superior to brown people to a brown person. Fucking degrading. Have some pride.

You're saying that there's something in Hispanic and African and Asian DNA that stops them from assimilating.  I'd love to see some data to back that up, because that just sounds downright asinine.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Yes, their eyes, hair, and skin color do not look like white people's. It's that easy. America was founded by and still is a majority white. You can call it western culture or whatever but that is the truth of it. And people from those places will not be willing to defend and die for the country because they will not consider themselves truly American and resent America's culture and founding.

Do you really think a Chinese American kid will volunteer to go fight in Beijing if China attacked the U.S.? Do you expect an Indian American to drop bombs on Mumbai? No, they will be unwilling to do to so. Especially in this day and age of social and mass media.

It happened during the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. Arab Muslim American soldiers murdered American troops about to be deployed to Iraq. It has happened. There are records of it.

Dude, I served with black people, white people, hispanics, asians, Jews, muslims, christians, Wiccan and atheists... just stop

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Yes, their eyes, hair, and skin color do not look like white people's. It's that easy. America was founded by and still is a majority white. You can call it western culture or whatever but that is the truth of it. And people from those places will not be willing to defend and die for the country because they will not consider themselves truly American and resent America's culture and founding.

Do you really think a Chinese American kid will volunteer to go fight in Beijing if China attacked the U.S.? Do you expect an Indian American to drop bombs on Mumbai? No, they will be unwilling to do to so. Especially in this day and age of social and mass media.

It happened during the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. Arab Muslim American soldiers murdered American troops about to be deployed to Iraq. It has happened. There are records of it.

Dude, I served with black people, white people, hispanics, asians, Jews, muslims, christians, Wiccan and atheists... just stop

In an all volunteer force in a lopsided limited war. And there were still murders committed by Arab Muslim men in the military as well as terror attacks.


When there is a draft for an all out war where there are huge amounts of casualties, people would not want to go. Especially to kill "their own". Ask Mohammad Ali.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

any data to back up that immigrants are net job producers, or is it all anecdotal feel good stories?  The first two articles are of no relevance.  The last actually has data, but it only tackles it from the perspective of how immigrants contribute to job growth.  Any data that shows overall that immigrants are net producers?

There is no data because its basically an ideology with nothing behind it, pushed by people who benefit from cheap labour and employees being insecure in their jobs, and swallowed by the unthinking who swallow any ideology which is pushed hard enough.

If immigrants are taking the lowest paid jobs - and are typically net beneficiaries of the tax system, jobs growth and consumption growth are their only contributions.

Its easy to fool people that an expanding economy, expanded by immigration and printing money, is a good thing.
As we've seen over the last decade - arguably the decade in which 'automation', personal portable computing and digital communication, has most directly affected and benefited the average person - it can easily grind to a halt.
So much for the tech boom, the dot-com boom and the securities boom eh - nothing delivered at all.

This is not an economy expanded by productivity gains which benefit the citizen, this is a boom-bust economy which benefits bankers and corporations - the same people who drive it.



Over the same period the population in increased from ~275m to ~310m - and yet no new jobs were created.





Sure GDP has gone up, a little



You'd expect it with an increased population, inflation, and all that borrowed money has to produce something.



Wages haven't really increased though.



So much for the average citizen gaining any benefit, and a year or two ago the average US wage was about equal to the Australian minimum wage.

'Automation' might have benefited America, however I'm prepared to bet any gains have been handed to China in the form of smartphone and tablet purchases - just as Australia has blown the entire mining boom on flat screen TVs and imported luxury cars.

What have the Chinese spent their windfall on? Domestic infrastructure and foreign property - both more productive than last years electronic goods in a landfill somewhere.

Not hard to see who will win in the long run is it?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2015-10-21 03:31:50)

I like it here, apart from the bloody Asians.

Dilbert_X wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

any data to back up that immigrants are net job producers, or is it all anecdotal feel good stories?  The first two articles are of no relevance.  The last actually has data, but it only tackles it from the perspective of how immigrants contribute to job growth.  Any data that shows overall that immigrants are net producers?

There is no data because its basically an ideology with nothing behind it, pushed by people who benefit from cheap labour and employees being insecure in their jobs, and swallowed by the unthinking who swallow any ideology which is pushed hard enough.

If immigrants are taking the lowest paid jobs - and are typically net beneficiaries of the tax system, jobs growth and consumption growth are their only contributions.

Its easy to fool people that an expanding economy, expanded by immigration and printing money, is a good thing.
As we've seen over the last decade - arguably the decade in which 'automation', personal portable computing and digital communication, has most directly affected and benefited the average person - it can easily grind to a halt.
So much for the tech boom, the dot-com boom and the securities boom eh - nothing delivered at all.

This is not an economy expanded by productivity gains which benefit the citizen, this is a boom-bust economy which benefits bankers and corporations - the same people who drive it.

Over the same period the population in increased from ~275m to ~310m - and yet no new jobs were created.





Sure GDP has gone up, a little



You'd expect it with an increased population, inflation, and all that borrowed money has to produce something.



Wages haven't really increased though.



So much for the average citizen gaining any benefit, and a year or two ago the average US wage was about equal to the Australian minimum wage.

'Automation' might have benefited America, however I'm prepared to bet any gains have been handed to China in the form of smartphone and tablet purchases - just as Australia has blown the entire mining boom on flat screen TVs and imported luxury cars.

What have the Chinese spent their windfall on? Domestic infrastructure and foreign property - both more productive than last years electronic goods in a landfill somewhere.

Not hard to see who will win in the long run is it?

You might have a shred of credibility if we weren't currently at full employment, even with 11 million illegal immigrants working. The alternative to immigration is more automation, not less.

Your xenophobia makes you stupid.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Yes, their eyes, hair, and skin color do not look like white people's. It's that easy. America was founded by and still is a majority white. You can call it western culture or whatever but that is the truth of it. And people from those places will not be willing to defend and die for the country because they will not consider themselves truly American and resent America's culture and founding.

Do you really think a Chinese American kid will volunteer to go fight in Beijing if China attacked the U.S.? Do you expect an Indian American to drop bombs on Mumbai? No, they will be unwilling to do to so. Especially in this day and age of social and mass media.

It happened during the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. Arab Muslim American soldiers murdered American troops about to be deployed to Iraq. It has happened. There are records of it.

you realize that is the same argument for putting Japanese Americans in internment camps during WW2, right? It's pretty much recognized now that it was a nonsensical idea based on xenophobia.

White American soldiers murdered Americans too.  You realize it's not spurned by a loyalty to the homeland, right?

I am trying to convince myself you are not being serious.

You're talking about a dragnet and mass incarceration based on single incidents. That goes against everything this country stands for. We don't and shouldn't do preemptive policing.

I can't believe this is a real conversation.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Yes, their eyes, hair, and skin color do not look like white people's. It's that easy. America was founded by and still is a majority white. You can call it western culture or whatever but that is the truth of it. And people from those places will not be willing to defend and die for the country because they will not consider themselves truly American and resent America's culture and founding.

Do you really think a Chinese American kid will volunteer to go fight in Beijing if China attacked the U.S.? Do you expect an Indian American to drop bombs on Mumbai? No, they will be unwilling to do to so. Especially in this day and age of social and mass media.

It happened during the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. Arab Muslim American soldiers murdered American troops about to be deployed to Iraq. It has happened. There are records of it.

you realize that is the same argument for putting Japanese Americans in internment camps during WW2, right? It's pretty much recognized now that it was a nonsensical idea based on xenophobia.

White American soldiers murdered Americans too.  You realize it's not spurned by a loyalty to the homeland, right?

I am trying to convince myself you are not being serious.

I am being 100% serious. While it was wrong what we did, I guess, (Michelle Malkin doesn't think it was) there were instances of Japanese Americans turning against the U.S. Ever heard of Iva Toguri D'Aquino aka Tokyo Rose?

Also, when an Muslim Arab American man throws grenades into his fellow soldiers tent in Kuwait just before we invaded Iraq, then I think there is an obvious difference between that and shooting your fellow soldier in a love triangle.

you do realize there's more to it than tokyo rose being a 'traitor'