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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+502|2804
IF the U.S. had supported the rebels from the start, ISIS would have been killed in the cradle. They would have been a small group attempting to undermine a western supported regime. Russia has supported the Syrian government since before the the Arab Spring. I don't understand your point there.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5800

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Iraq wouldn't have been invaded by ISIS if the French and British parliaments had authorized airstrikes along with the U.S. after Assad used chemical weapons.
You do realize ISIS is also an offshoot of Al Qaeda Iraq right?
I don't think that's accurate. They are former allies of Al Qaeda.

.
AQ is more like a franchise than anything else. AQ Iraq and AQ in AFghanistan have different operational goals. ISIS is pretty much AQ Iraq radicalised even more.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

IF the U.S. had supported the rebels from the start.
Do you think a large enough force to take over Syria and Iraq just materialised overnight?
ISIS were a big part the rebels in Syria from day one, AQ were a large part of the rebels in Libya from day one.

The West doesn't have a fucking clue what its doing in the ME, supporting various bloodthirsty religious nutballs, especially the jews, and then being surprised when it all turns to shit.

And Al Qaeda are stronger than ever, well done George

https://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/110916030634-bush-golf-horizontal-gallery.jpg
#FreeBritney
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5800

Dilbert_X wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

IF the U.S. had supported the rebels from the start.
Do you think a large enough force to take over Syria and Iraq just materialised overnight?
ISIS were a big part the rebels in Syria from day one, AQ were a large part of the rebels in Libya from day one.

The West doesn't have a fucking clue what its doing in the ME, supporting various bloodthirsty religious nutballs, especially the jews, and then being surprised when it all turns to shit.

And Al Qaeda are stronger than ever, well done George

Ehhh it didn't really help when the US started pulling troops out in massive amounts during Obama's term.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX
It didn't help that US troops deposed Saddam.
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Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5800

Dilbert_X wrote:

It didn't help that US troops deposed Saddam.
a lot of ISIS guys were former saddam loyalists.
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Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

The West doesn't have a fucking clue what its doing in the ME, supporting various bloodthirsty religious nutballs
the west, or rather those is the west calling the shots, know exactly what they are doing in ME, and they've been hugely successful in achieveing their goals - it's just that those are not the goals they say to the public they pursue.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+502|2804
The Soviet Union pushed for an independent Jewish state then antagonized Israel, armed the Arab states, armed Iran, and overthrew the government of Afghanistan. Modern Russia supports the Syrian regime, and prevents international action on Iran's nuclear program.


You wouldn't be so annoying if you were Chinese or Indian. But your refusal to recognize that your country is as responsible for how screwed up the world is as we are is very off putting.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2014-08-27 05:36:50)

https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia
every player in this field is as responsible for how screwed the world is as their ability to influence the situation - the west has always been the most capable in that regard, hence, it is the most responsible.

but, generally, i agree. nobody is really in the right or has moral high ground when it comes to international policits. i still think that soviets where better than most, because they actually practiced what they preached. well, mostly. but still, they weren't a pleasant bunch, not in the least, but that's how this game it played, it's been that way forever, and it doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon. deal with it.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX
If they preached committing atrocities against civilians in Afghanistan and Chechnya then yes you're right.
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Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|5817|Cambridge, England

Shahter wrote:

you posted evidence? or, ffs, did anyone here posted any evidence for their claims re russian involvement with civil war in ukraine? you know, a verifiable piece of info that couldn't have been manufactured by a 12 years old? no? well, then you've nothing, huh? i thought so. you don't know shit, and you are telling me - a person who actually have the means to verify stuff and see for himself things that you only have second hand info on - that there are "recruitment camps in moscow"? really?

well, okay, we can agree on one thing i'm sure - don't bother posting crap. there's enough of it here already imo.

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27994032

Since March, Moscow has annexed Ukraine's southern Crimea peninsula.

This was achieved with the help of troops without insignia. Despite initial denials, Mr Putin later admitted that they were Russian armed forces.

However, Moscow denies accusations by Kiev that Russian troops are helping and arming the separatists in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Well that's a shock.

I'm not sure what source you want to use to double check but theres a fair few pages on google https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid … n%20crimea one of which links to an interview I cant watch from work, but feel free.

Now we just await the revelation that the rest of the plain clothed troops are in fact Russian.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27961934

About 80km (50 miles) from Shakhty, in the Russian city of Rostov, I talk to Yuri.

A long green mask and dark glasses hide his face. He's agreed to this midnight meeting to tell me about his group's activities.

On its website, the group recently advertised for tank drivers, helicopter pilots and for people who know how to operate rocket launchers.

Kiev has identified this organisation and its website as one of the main recruiting grounds for Russian fighters in Ukraine.
Im sure they dont have access to any of the vehicles that they need crews for..

Shahter wrote:

Shahter wrote:

you can be damn sure russia is participating in this, after all, taking sides in civil wars have been a kind of a trend in international politics lately - the trend not started by russia, mind you.
I am lost. You seem to flick between stating its obvious Russian troops are in Ukraine and "its all western propaganda"

Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2014-08-28 10:00:15)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia

Dilbert_X wrote:

If they preached committing atrocities against civilians in Afghanistan and Chechnya then yes you're right.
no they didn't preach anything like that. nor did they commit any atrocities.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

I am lost. You seem to flick between stating its obvious Russian troops are in Ukraine and "its all western propaganda"
/sigh

"russia is participating in this" doesn't mean "russian troops are in ukraine", does it?

russia did not annex crimea - first they had a referendum and then they asked to be allowed to join. russian soldiers that helped preserve the order where there before it all started - they were troops stationed with russias navy base in crimea and they were asked to help by local authorities.

any more evidence?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5800

Shahter wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

I am lost. You seem to flick between stating its obvious Russian troops are in Ukraine and "its all western propaganda"
/sigh

"russia is participating in this" doesn't mean "russian troops are in ukraine", does it?

russia did not annex crimea - first they had a referendum and then they asked to be allowed to join. russian soldiers that helped preserve the order where there before it all started - they were troops stationed with russias navy base in crimea and they were asked to help by local authorities.

any more evidence?
Since March, Moscow has annexed Ukraine's southern Crimea peninsula.

This was achieved with the help of troops without insignia. Despite initial denials, Mr Putin later admitted that they were Russian armed forces.
I guess your president is just full of shit.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX

Shahter wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

If they preached committing atrocities against civilians in Afghanistan and Chechnya then yes you're right.
no they didn't preach anything like that. nor did they commit any atrocities.
Sure they didn't
#FreeBritney
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia
nope. they didn't.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|5793|England. Stoke
Yeah no atrocities in Chechnya...
Jesus fucking christ.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia
i dunno about fucking christ, but no atrocities in chechnia, just a counter-terrorist operation with all the, admittedly, unpleasant stuff that entails.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+502|2804
Ukraine wants to join NATO now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28978699

I wonder if Crimea was worth making a permanent enemy out of your oldest ally.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5800

Shahter wrote:

i dunno about fucking christ, but no atrocities in chechnia, just a counter-terrorist operation with all the, admittedly, unpleasant stuff that entails.
uh...
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Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukraine wants to join NATO now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28978699
whatever. ukraine that may want to join nato does not exist anymore - it's a failed nation in a civil war with no legitimate government which could speak for its people.

I wonder if Crimea was worth making a permanent enemy out of your oldest ally.
"permanent enemy"? how many ukrainians have you spoken to about this? how many of them think russia's an enemy?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5800

Shahter wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Ukraine wants to join NATO now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28978699
whatever. ukraine that may want to join nato does not exist anymore - it's a failed nation in a civil war with no legitimate government which could speak for its people.

I wonder if Crimea was worth making a permanent enemy out of your oldest ally.
"permanent enemy"? how many ukrainians have you spoken to about this? how many of them think russia's an enemy?
ukraine gov such a sham that putin recognizes them and are in talks.
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+502|2804
Since Putin disavowed the Russians in Ukraine, America should send its military to bomb them. They are illegal combatants. Then let's see what Russia does.
I don't advise that the United States get involved in every conflict. But if not this time, then when? When Putin rolls into Poland? I bet I hear the same voices say 'why is it worth American blood or treasure' all over again.

A strategic attack here against a Russian column in Ukraine can stop a war precisely because Putin does not acknowledge that the Russian column exists. Unlike that day when Russians roll into Poland.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2014-08-30 11:03:21)

https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Since Putin disavowed the Russians in Ukraine, America should send its military to bomb them. They are illegal combatants. Then let's see what Russia does.
first, please provide somekinda evidence of russians being in there at all. and second, who exactly are you to decide which side in civil war is to be deemed "illegal combatants"?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5859|Moscow, Russia

Cybargs wrote:

ukraine gov such a sham that putin recognizes them and are in talks.
well, yeah, putin recognized one of the clowns in there as leader of one of the sides in the conflict. and he's been asked to talk to that dude. and they talked. that means... ummm... precisely nothing.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

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