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pirana6
Go Cougs!
+645|5375|Washington St.
Received a hit today in the US

Wall Street Journal wrote:

The rejection of the core of the government’s “net neutrality” rules is the first step toward a gradual shift in how broadband networks are paid for.

By tossing out the “Open Internet” rules written by the Federal Communications Commission in 2010, Internet service providers are now free to experiment with new types of arrangements, such as charging content companies like Google or Netflix higher fees to deliver Internet traffic faster, more seamlessly or in greater quantity, or degrading the quality of certain online content unless its creators are willing to pay.
How a Court Just Changed the Way the Internet Will Be Paid For

yes there's probably a thread for this, but A) this is recent and B) search is broken
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|5827|Reality
verizonflix is going to provide awesome download speeds while netflix is going to crawl
newspaper sites with verizon had better not write bad things about verizon, or their website might take 30 minutes to load.
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
jsnipy
...
+3,275|5607|...

At this point I hope we get invaded by China
BVC
Member
+325|5780
Nothing good can come of this, unless you own shares in a major ISP.
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|5408|Graz, Austria
You better not say anything bad about this decision, or the NSA will sell that information to your ISP, who'll then throttle your connection down to 56k modem fun times.

Big Brother sez:
Thoughtcrime is bad.
Ivan Kara
Member
+0|2954
The NSA isn't a big deal.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+645|5375|Washington St.
While I want to agree with you, they indeed ARE a big deal.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4442|London, England

Ivan Kara wrote:

The NSA isn't a big deal.
They will find your collection of murdered Asian hookers
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX
NSA don't care about asian hookers, thats the Secret Service and its south american hookers.
#FreeBritney
CC-Marley
Member
+407|5913
yummm tasty beav
jsnipy
...
+3,275|5607|...

many sexy much feel
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,926|5716|949

Ivan Kara wrote:

The NSA isn't a big deal.
yep, because the government has shown time and time again that when they pass laws under the auspices of catching "bad guys", they only use that info to go after the "bad guys".  And the "bad guys" are usually domestic American dissidents.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,719|5821|Oxferd Ohire
maybe theyll get drooz next amirite
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Ivan Kara
Member
+0|2954

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Ivan Kara wrote:

The NSA isn't a big deal.
yep, because the government has shown time and time again that when they pass laws under the auspices of catching "bad guys", they only use that info to go after the "bad guys".  And the "bad guys" are usually domestic American dissidents.
They are only taking metadata. This isn't the same thing as having spies in antiwar groups. It is funny that people are upset by the fact that the NSA can ask for a little metadata but aren't upset that companies are keeping all of this data in the first place. Verizon can make your life miserable too.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+645|5375|Washington St.
I dont think anybody likes Verizon either. Or Comcast, or Time Warner, or AT&T...

edito: in fact it was Verizon that was the chief antagonist in the original news from the OP article

Last edited by pirana6 (2014-01-30 17:18:05)

RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,719|5821|Oxferd Ohire
but i like having 4g everywhere
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,926|5716|949

I hate the collection of user data.  I hate browsing the web and seeing ads for MMA and golf all over the place.  I don't like personal data collection at all. I absolutely loathe the whole idea of online marketing and targeted ads and the like.  But please don't be so naive MacBeth.  "They are only taking metadata".  Well, then.  It's just your metadata, it's innocuous, right?  They can't extrapolate trends and user info based on metadata, right? As far as they are concerned, we are just a string of alphanumeric text, no personal identifiers at all, right?  It's not like the NSA recruits and employs PhDs in analytics to tease out as much information as possible and feed it to a database.  Yep, we are all just tinfoil hat-wearing rubes who are scared of big government.  It has nothing to do with historical precedents the government has set time and time again regarding how they use laws spuriously passed for defense against the foreign boogeymen on their own citizens.  Who cares about the 4th amendment.  Let's just collect every piece of discernible data (video, audio, search trends, etc) we can and store it.  You know, just in case something happens, it's just metadata and the government can't do anything with metadata!
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+645|5375|Washington St.
just dont google CP on your phone
Ivan Kara
Member
+0|2954
Can you list some instances of the NSA using this program against Americans in an unethical way? The NSA has been eating up all the data they can for decades and there has been how many verified instances of misconduct? Your arguments against their data mining can be word switched to include anything related to law enforcement or security. Until there have been cases of the government using metadata to crack down on Americans I am going to put it in same category I put fear over the census being used to arrest people or gun registries being used to take away my guns.  Do you refuse to fill out census forms because the government might arrest you at night? Do you refuse to tell the IRS about any assets you have? Liberal paranoia.


As society becomes more complex and new technology develops the government must expand to meet the world's new challenges. The military's known system are met with millions of attacks a day. So are our banks, water treatment plants, internet businesses, and everything else connected to the world wide web. In order to meet this new threat the government is going to have to increase its involvement in telecommunications. It is an inevitable fact.


Finally, absolutely no American should complain about the NSA's spying of foreign governments. The NSA, CIA, DoD, and every other piece of the government machine owes nothing to to anyone not American. Unless they are members of NATO, they should be spied on. Everyone watches everyone else. We should be proactive in our development of spying technology. Saying otherwise is naive pacifism.

Last edited by Ivan Kara (2014-01-30 18:56:23)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX
USA carries out industrial espionage, to benefit US companies, against NATO members.
#FreeBritney
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,926|5716|949

Ivan Kara wrote:

Can you list some instances of the NSA using this program against Americans in an unethical way? The NSA has been eating up all the data they can for decades and there has been how many verified instances of misconduct? Your arguments against their data mining can be word switched to include anything related to law enforcement or security. Until there have been cases of the government using metadata to crack down on Americans I am going to put it in same category I put fear over the census being used to arrest people or gun registries being used to take away my guns.  Do you refuse to fill out census forms because the government might arrest you at night? Do you refuse to tell the IRS about any assets you have? Liberal paranoia.


As society becomes more complex and new technology develops the government must expand to meet the world's new challenges. The military's known system are met with millions of attacks a day. So are our banks, water treatment plants, internet businesses, and everything else connected to the world wide web. In order to meet this new threat the government is going to have to increase its involvement in telecommunications. It is an inevitable fact.


Finally, absolutely no American should complain about the NSA's spying of foreign governments. The NSA, CIA, DoD, and every other piece of the government machine owes nothing to to anyone not American. Unless they are members of NATO, they should be spied on. Everyone watches everyone else. We should be proactive in our development of spying technology. Saying otherwise is naive pacifism.
As I'm sure you well know, the casualties of programs like these do not become known until years (and sometimes decades) later.  I'm sure the farcical hysterity of the USS Maine and the Gulf of Tonkin and abuses of COINTELPRO and the HUAC and even the PATRIOT ACT were found and discussed as those events were going on, right?  I can prove instances within the last 7 years of people on these forums saying the same things to me about the myriad privacy-reducing laws passed after 9/11 attacks.  IT happens.  It's naive to think these laws are used to stop terrorism more than they are used for domestic enforcement against US citizens taking part in activities wholly unrelated to terrorism.  The proven record is these laws are passed in moments of panic and hysteria under the auspices of stopping terrorism or bad guys but used far more against American citizens engaging in dissent than the stated original intent of the law.  That's historical fact. I'm not sorry to assume this is more of the same.

Yes, hand-collected data by going door-to-door as the census interviewers do is the same as big data mining.  That's like saying dropping a line into a lake is the same thing as casting a net across a lake and trawling the whole thing.  It's not the same dude.

I'm complaining about DOMESTIC spying.  I thought that was clear.  Get your red herring out of here.  For what it's worth, we spy on NATO countries and strategic partners too.  I don't really have a problem with it except for the fact it's not targeted spying...it's data collection across the board.

Finally, would you really like to debate the actual merit of programs like these?

Dilbert_X wrote:

USA carries out industrial espionage, to benefit US companies, against NATO members.
Woah bro.  You like, totally blew my mind with that one.  The US promotes it's corporate interests, even against military allies?  No way dude!?  Any other insight from the wizened esoteric mind of the resident boob?
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|5408|Graz, Austria

Dilbert_X wrote:

USA carries out industrial espionage, to benefit US companies, against NATO members.
And all other espionage against everyone else, too.

I guess at one point someone one said:
"Aww, fuck it. We'll give up with those algorithms. Just save all of it."

Last edited by globefish23 (2014-01-31 17:25:55)

Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|5817|Cambridge, England
Bit short sighted thinking that taking the piss out of your allies will have no consequences at all.

People in Europe are actively moving away from US based companies wherever an alternative is available.

I can't believe the fact that the US government stores a copy of every electronic communication is "not a big deal" Imagine the headlines if this was being undertaken by China or Russia.

Everytime you use your credit card online your information is encrypted, but due to interferrence from the US it is likely this encryption is now worthless. When the US demand masterkeys and backdoors, there is nothing to prevent other people finding them as well.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,926|5716|949

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Bit short sighted thinking that taking the piss out of your allies will have no consequences at all.

People in Europe are actively moving away from US based companies wherever an alternative is available.

I can't believe the fact that the US government stores a copy of every electronic communication is "not a big deal" Imagine the headlines if this was being undertaken by China or Russia.

Everytime you use your credit card online your information is encrypted, but due to interferrence from the US it is likely this encryption is now worthless. When the US demand masterkeys and backdoors, there is nothing to prevent other people finding them as well.
American foreign policy is and always has been extremely short-sighted.  In fact, short-sightedness is ingrained in American culture.  Our macro view of everything (society, economy, politics) is extremely short-sighted.  I think it can be attributed to a few things - the age of our nation in general means we don't have an exhaustive historical record to look back upon and reference (as opposed to say China or Western Europe), and the celebration/embrace of technological innovation means we operate under the assumption that whatever we break, we will fix with technology and increased efficiency and innovation.  Much like the "green revolution" is/was supposed to upend Malthusian Theory.

You really can't compare the US policy re: spying and data collection with Russia and China.  Russia and China are both fairly up front with their citizens regarding domestic "spying" (I put it in quotation marks because I don't really equate it with spying so much as data collection akin to what big data mining is for web/app advertisers, as MacBeth mentioned earlier) whereas the US tries to be clandestine and obfuscate their methods and intentions. I'm not saying either one is better than the other...just that it seems like an apples to oranges comparison.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,753|5190|eXtreme to the maX
Canada is the same age as the US, but far less retarded, belligerent, short-termist etc.

Explain that.
#FreeBritney

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