BF2S Forums Be the change

Shahter wrote:

what does god have to do with rainwater harvest systems or wells again? or did he turn the water in any of those into wine?

p.s. good to hear from you, btw.

That's easy.

I spent 26 years doing residential and commercial systems and went the economy crashed I thought I had wasted my life because my business was destroyed.

All I had to do was say, " whatever is Your will, I submit. If I am to be homeless, so be it. If my career was wasted, show me a way forward. "I wanted to be the hands and feet of Jesus, because I admire what he DID, NOT what people say he did or meant. His works were so mysterious and powerful that the Jews considered him a sorcerer, but there is plenty of evidence that A) he actually existed and B) people having been trying to co-opt His word ever since.

When I surrendered my life, the purpose behind those 26 years was revealed. I was able to supercharge the program, guarantee the success of it and train teams to kick ass. My life's work had not been wasted, because now it was saving lives of actual people. I also saw first hand the hand of Satan at work as he tried to destroy mission teams and had a boy step in front of our van and die. It was all about making us stop the work. We said, fuck you Satan and are now up to 53 plus systems.

Many things about me didn't change; I still love smoking pot, I still drink more than I should. But...I am organizing teams on a regular basis to go to Africa and beyond. In the seven weeks I spent in Rwanda I learned that, just because celebrities are collecting money for Africa charities doesn't mean that real people ever see any result of it; I learted that the U.N. facilitates the slaughter in Rwanda and elsewhere as, according to the then French president " genocides in Africa are not such a bad thing. "


What we do is build up the local churches. We give our resources and training to the pastors who are free to do with it what they will, or God directs them to. There is no hoop to jump through for them to qualify for the aid other than they have to be Christian ( I am working on outreach to the 5% of Muslims in Rwanda but its complicated ) and they have to be willing to multiply what we do by seven;
If we train one person in hygiene they have to share the training with seven families in their community. If we install a rainwater harvest system in Karongi, they have to commit to at least striving to organizing seven systems in nearby areas. It is transforming the rural communities and uniting the African people in ways that are so much bigger than my shitty little niche, which is gutters and water technology.

If you just give it a chance you will be transformed.

Am I perfect? fuck no
Have I made mistakes? Hell yes



I don't care who you are or what you believe, but if YOU are prepared to be an individual force of change for people who have nothing to offer in return but their love I am your friend.

Ephesians 4:29

Sounds like great work you are doing. I am glad you believe in it so much. It's nice to have passionate people out in the world ACTUALLY doing good.

pirana6 wrote:

Ephesians 4:29

If God didn't believe that "fuck" should be both a verb and a noun it wouldn't be part of our lexicon.

I am not one of those that says you have to believe a certain thing or act a certain way. I don't accept everything.
I just know I was called and my shape fit perfectly into the puzzle that was before me.

ps, if my business hadn't tanked I would not have believed I had time. We are all too busy in our own little world.

Now my NEW business has as part of its foundation service, even if it doesn't make sense financially.

Yup.
i took him to the polygamist beehive at my Dad's house in Heriman ( may he RIP and if you talk crap about him because you dislike me you are scum ).

I didn't grow up in polygamy btw: sort of a spectator. The whole Mormon thing didn't work me.

oh my god who fucking cares?

A2TG2 wrote:

Shahter wrote:

A2TG2 wrote:

That's easy.

<stuff cut for brevity. good stuff.>

I don't care who you are or what you believe, but if YOU are prepared to be an individual force of change for people who have nothing to offer in return but their love I am your friend.

last question then: who funds these expeditions of yours if, as you said, your own business was destroyed?

People who can't go but have a heart for service.
I raised about 14k to fund four trips by writing and speaking about it.
People watch this and get inspired;
http://youtu.be/xbpPrCFFYtI

really? why the god-schtick then? you understand that you are putting a lot of people off by mentioning that shit, right?

God must have wanted my beer to go flat and warm.

Shahter wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

What difference does it really make?

big difference. they are empowering churches when they could  be empowering schools. they are helping those people from stone age to dark ages when they could be working on uplifting them into 21st century. they are doing this in the name of the fucking jesus with his burning bush and a talking snake, when they could be doing it simply because it's a good thing to do. think about it for a second - what exactly does the god-schtick add to this anyway? remove it and nothing is lost, even gained in some respects. personally, i'm definitely put off by the religious side of this.

p.s. that said, atg, you are doing a good thing, regardless of your reasons. you have my respect, man.

Think about it; poor ass governments are the ones that build, authorize and regulate schools. Lots of people build stuff and then go away never knowing what becomes of that building, or if that well works. Governments may or may not use funds for or authorize schools.

But in every dirt poor Africa town I seen there were always two things; bars and churches.
A hundred years ago it was the churches that provided healthcare and education for the poor, now people trust governments more and what we have is more poverty, have and have nots and uber corruption in governments.

As for doing it because its a good thing to do, I never saw any bands of liberal hippy do-gooders over there. The only apparatus for ordinary people to do extraordinary things is through the network of churches that already exist. We don't go out into the jungle, snare blacks and evangelize them. We go to existing churches and facilitate cooperation between different denominations. Our model is to say, we are here to help, what do you need? You don't convert converts. You might go to church with them.

If you looked at what Rwanda has become, which is a model of peace and stability in Africa and you researched why you'd learn that the president decided to govern the country according to the concept of The Peace Plan.

Point is, show me a country that isn't governed this way and I'll see corruption, tyranny and despotism, just like we have here. There would not be peace in Rwanda if it was still about tribes. It became about God. Know Jesus, know peace. No Jesus....

http://youtu.be/b1CIz9UFE6o

Last edited by A2TG2 (2013-08-10 11:20:10)

Shahter wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

What difference does it really make?

big difference. they are empowering churches when they could  be empowering schools. they are helping those people from stone age to dark ages when they could be working on uplifting them into 21st century. they are doing this in the name of the fucking jesus with his burning bush and a talking snake, when they could be doing it simply because it's a good thing to do. think about it for a second - what exactly does the god-schtick add to this anyway? remove it and nothing is lost, even gained in some respects. personally, i'm definitely put off by the religious side of this.

p.s. that said, atg, you are doing a good thing, regardless of your reasons. you have my respect, man.

Africa is in dire need of individuals willing to lend a helping hand. It is also in dire need of progressing past religious fanaticism. I sort of have to agree with everything Ze Russkie said, especially the fact that it's nice to see someone doing good for the underprivileged, regardless of their reasons...

Macbeth wrote:

There was some literature (academic) about how people coming in from  first world countries to build infrastructure actually made things worse. The argument was that you first depressed the local laborers wages since you were working for free. And you prevented the locals from getting knowledge on how to build their own communities and maintain the stuff built. I am not a 100% sold on that argument.

The book is called " When Helping Hurts ", and yes that can be the case.
Rwanda recognized that over dependance can be an issue and ran off 65% of the NGO groups.

We train people to do the work. We buy locally.
We ask that if we train one person they share they gift with seven.
I'm telling you, The Peace Plan is as perfect a model as exists.
The PEACE Plan is a hopeful response to the five giant problems in the world: Spiritual Emptiness, Self-Serving, Leadership, Poverty, Disease, and Illiteracy.

PEACE is a movement to mobilize Chris-
tians in churches working together to...

Plant churches that promote reconciliation

Equip servant leaders

Assist the poor

Care for the sick

Educate the next generation


http://www.thepeaceplan.com/

Last edited by A2TG2 (2013-08-10 12:43:11)

holy shit I missed a lot

A2TG2 wrote:

Shahter wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

What difference does it really make?

big difference. they are empowering churches when they could  be empowering schools. they are helping those people from stone age to dark ages when they could be working on uplifting them into 21st century. they are doing this in the name of the fucking jesus with his burning bush and a talking snake, when they could be doing it simply because it's a good thing to do. think about it for a second - what exactly does the god-schtick add to this anyway? remove it and nothing is lost, even gained in some respects. personally, i'm definitely put off by the religious side of this.

p.s. that said, atg, you are doing a good thing, regardless of your reasons. you have my respect, man.

Think about it; poor ass governments are the ones that build, authorize and regulate schools. Lots of people build stuff and then go away never knowing what becomes of that building, or if that well works. Governments may or may not use funds for or authorize schools.

and christian pastors running the churches are so much more reliable... uh-huh.

But in every dirt poor Africa town I seen there were always two things; bars and churches.

of course. the former exploit people's taste for alcohol and the latter their ignorance and fear of the unknown. what does any of that have to do with helping poor bastards get fresh water again?

A hundred years ago it was the churches that provided healthcare and education for the poor, now people trust governments more and what we have is more poverty, have and have nots and uber corruption in governments.

yeah yeah, let's all get back a hundred yeahs when people died of common flu and tuberculosis like flies. what else should we re-introduce into our society from times long gone? slavery? crusades maybe? those were all fine with the church at some point, even encouraged by it.

As for doing it because its a good thing to do, I never saw any bands of liberal hippy do-gooders over there. The only apparatus for ordinary people to do extraordinary things is through the network of churches that already exist. We don't go out into the jungle, snare blacks and evangelize them. We go to existing churches and facilitate cooperation between different denominations. Our model is to say, we are here to help, what do you need? You don't convert converts. You might go to church with them.

you know, i really like this thing you do. had you simply told me that you'd chosen to work through those channels because they had been the only stable enough and available ones to bring aid to those in need i wouldn't have said a word against that. you, however, started singing praise to the fucking jesus from the very beginning which, as i said, really puts off certain people - a very large and ever growing number of people, you know. all i'm saying is that you may just want to reconsider the way you approach this.

If you looked at what Rwanda has become, which is a model of peace and stability in Africa and you researched why you'd learn that the president decided to govern the country according to the concept of The Peace Plan.

Point is, show me a country that isn't governed this way and I'll see corruption, tyranny and despotism, just like we have here. There would not be peace in Rwanda if it was still about tribes. It became about God. Know Jesus, know peace. No Jesus....

http://youtu.be/b1CIz9UFE6o

you are wasting your talents with me here, man. none of this stuff you post adds any substance to the god-schtick you insist on attaching to this - admittedly very nice - thing you do.

think about it for a second - you just called those who'd help others simply because it's a good thing to do "liberal hippie do-gooders" - a derogatory description - and then in the same post you talk about people, who believe in talking snakes and people travelling for days inside whales - all because that stuff is somehow important for their salvation - like they are the ones deserving respect and support. what, really?
also, if the holy book on which christianity is supposedly based is any indication, jesus himself was the very model of a hippie do-gooder himself. doesn't that sound just a wee bit... ummm... inconsistent, huh?

Last edited by Shahter (2013-08-10 16:00:24)