BF2S Forums Australian politics thread.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Ty wrote:

Oh get over it. Your other arguments are just as weak anyway.

I haven't made any arguments yet. Is this really the level of your political analysis?

I couldn't care less that Gillard is female. Rudd was almost as bad, I don't suppose Abbott will be much better.

Picking a few of your points:

Carbon tax - What has it achieved exactly? Taxing some carbon-heavy industries, repaying that tax in offsets to some industries and not others, setting it at a rate grossly out of line with countries which even have a comparable tax, and giving zero carbon incentive the consumer. All it does is push industry off-shore, the emissions are exactly the same, they just happen in a different place.
For example my company, our electricity bill went up by $100k this year, what does that mean we're doing? Offshoring more energy intensive work to Asia. How does this help anyone or the planet?

First off, data from the National Electricity Market confirmed that in February this year carbon emissions from the electricity sector had dropped 8.6% since July 2012. Not even a year and an 8.6% drop. It has also seen a sharp rise in renewable generation and more investment in renewable technologies. Which is what it aimed to do.

Secondly, this notion that you have about the Australian tax on carbon being out of line with other countries - well sure, no two countries have the same tax system. Lucky for Australia though it sits well on the bottom of the heap in regard to carbon taxation. Fourth lowest actually, above Mexico, the US, Canada and Chile and just below Poland. Germany taxes its energy sector for pollution over double Australia's meagre carbon tax and Switzerland has almost double that. It is not, as Abbott has said, "The world's biggest carbon tax". Not even close.

Thirdly, power bills are going up due to money spent on infrastructure and maintenance. Last year 96% of the increase to power prices was due to hardware and maintenance. 4% was the cost of actually producing energy which includes the carbon tax. That's why Abbott's promise that axing the carbon tax is a good first step in addressing power price rises is laughable. Even if it takes that whole 4% that doesn't exactly fix the problem and it ruins the good work achieved by the carbon tax in lowering emissions and investing in energy efficiency. Not to mention that Abbott plans to keep the compensation for business in his bizarre fucking scheme which apparently makes money appear out of thin air.

Mining tax - Same question. The biggest mining boom in local history, mining companies pillaging the land, nada returned to the govt and the budget severely in the red.

Yeah, the mining tax hasn't delivered all it promised. This is due to two things: firstly the aforementioned work by the likes of Rinehart, Forrest, and Palmer in de-fanging the Minerals Resources Rent Tax as much as possible for their own gain. Secondly it was because since it was introduced the mining boom has slowed down and is now transitioning from its investment phase to a production phase.

The returns have been disappointing but they haven't been nothing as they would be if Abbott, (and mining giants,) had their way. The Government's preferred option ended Rudd's time as PM, it was the first thing dealt with by Gillard who came to the companies with a promise to compromise. The result is of course a compromised tax that basically no-one is happy with. But it's there and while not taking in as much as hoped it is at least giving some return.

And the budget deficit isn't that bad. The revenue fall was a blow but they still wiped $23b off the last deficit. $23b - you think Howard ever managed that? Anyway, a $19b deficit isn't a disaster or an emergency for a country like Australia, some economists would even argue its healthy so long as work is being made to return to surplus - which this government is doing.

Home Insulation - The govt single-handedly created a huge boom followed by a total bust in the home insulation industry, by allowing anyone to set up - to meet a govt created 'demand' - and promptly pulling the plug when it was apparent that letting anyone with a ladder and a teenager install electrically conductive foil in a roof (because there wasn't enough real insulation to meet the 'demand') wasn't the greatest idea.
In the meantime crooks have fleeced the govt of millions, companies have been bankrupted and people have died.
Thats what you get when you let a former rock star take engineering decisions, and let a union hack try to run an industry I guess.

It wasn't a good outcome, that much is a given. The scheme was solid it just wasn't fiercely regulated enough by the industry - or by the Government but then it wasn't their job to micro-manage. Criticism of it is a little empty when it comes from the Liberal side given that they are the party arguing for self-regulation.

A good scheme with good results wrecked by a greedy and irresponsible industry which has itself to blame more than anything else. The Government definitely owns some of the responsibility but it has been blown out of proportion for political reasons.

First off, data from the National Electricity Market confirmed that in February this year carbon emissions from the electricity sector had dropped 8.6% since July 2012. Not even a year and an 8.6% drop.

Given the time it takes for infrastructure to be put in place linking the two is wishful thinking. In the meantime factories have closed and industries gone abroad. I bet that 8.6% reduction in Australia is matched by a similar increase elsewhere. Aluminium smelting has been drastically cut for example.

Power is just one part of carbon emissions, not taxing road vehicle fuel, or mining vehicle fuel, or farming vehicle fuel, is laughable and gives zero cost incentive to consumers.

Secondly it was because since it was introduced the mining boom has slowed down and is now transitioning from its investment phase to a production phase.

Surely that should mean revenues should go up, not down, if its transitioning to production?
Production volume is already huge, and yet the tax produces nothing.

A good scheme with good results wrecked by a greedy and irresponsible industry which has itself to blame more than anything else. The Government definitely owns some of the responsibility but it has been blown out of proportion for political reasons.

It was a stupid scheme poorly designed and inherently wide open to abuse, including from people not even in the industry, and made easier by a govt desperate to meet its own targets to produce the next soundbite - whatever the real consequences.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-06-14 06:59:50)

I don't think they know what their policies are either.

Christ on a cracker there have been developments today. Enough to actually dismiss ALP leadership speculation for a few hours at least.

Rob Oakeshott announced that he will quit politics. A shame, he has been a good influence in Parliament and apparently the people of Lyne, (the ones who aren't one-eyed National voters at least,) were impressed by how much he managed to do for the electorate.

Then this gets completely overshadowed by Tony Windsor announcing that he will also quit politics at the election. The collective political optimism of the country slumps by another few points and Barnaby Joyce accidentally kicks over a lamp while dancing on his desk.

Damn. A pity to see Oakeshott go but a real shame to see Windsor go. Is there anyone left in Parliament with a shred of rationality? I'm not sure there is.

If there's anything to the ALP's leadership nonsense today or if the LNP actually releases a policy this may qualify as the most dynamic day in Australian politics this term.

Not so far there isn't. The media is reporting that Rudd supporters are handing around a petition to hold a leadership vote. Funny thing is no Labor members have confirmed that this is happening. Latika Bourke said that in March she made one phone call and had a confirmation that a petition had been signed immediately. Ten minutes ago she said she'd been trying for an hour and still no-one had confirmed it.

I'm no longer giving any plausibility to any news item with the words 'speculations', 'there are reports that', 'reportedly', 'rumours', or anything along those lines in regard to the Labor leadership matter. In three fucking years there has been two leadership spills, only one of these was contested. It is an embarrassingly poor display of political punditry from the media, they no longer have any credibility.

Edit: Apparently Latika has just found a Labor member willing to say they've seen the petition. Amazing. That means the potential for there to be the potential for a leadership vote which has the potential of replacing Julia Gillard with Kevin Rudd is there. Imminent chaos!

now involving kevin rudd.

she's gone.

exceptionally tough if flawed woman. i suspect history will be kinder to her than we are right now.

57-45

I wonder if the coalition will regret nailing Gillard so hard Labor replaced her with Rudd?

"most dynamic day" --> returning australian politics to 1950's?

No-one I know could have cared less that Gillard is a woman, ranting on-and-on about misogyny got boring quickly, blokes are tired of women pulling the woman-card.

Australia proved unequivocally through the last three years that it is not mature enough to have a female leader. Misogyny rants may have not done Gillard any favours but the truth of what she is saying is undeniable. While she was PM:

- Australia escaped nearly unscathed from the Global Financial Crisis, (Deputy PM under Rudd and as PM.)
- Australia maintained continued growth, (through the GFC,)
- Australia maintained low unemployment, (through the GFC,)
- Australia gained a AAA credit rating from all ratings agencies.
- Australia was rated "highest standard of living" by the OECD for two years in a row.

And all the while significant legislation was being passed by a minority government such as Gonski, the NBN, NDIS, carbon tax, Murray Darling Basin and more.

But elsewhere the media reported every week that the man Gillard dared to replace was plotting his comeback. Elsewhere her political opponents stood with placards deeming her a witch and a bitch. Right wing shock jocks mocked her dead father. Secret circle-jerk dinners mocked her anatomy. Politicians criticised her marital status as well as her being 'barren'. The leader of the Opposition had a hard time determining if you should address a Prime Minister as "Prime Minister" or "That Woman". The legitimacy of her relationship was questioned. She couldn't even be photographed knitting without an endless stream of people wanting to pick her apart and bring her down for it.

Joe Hockey summed it up when he tweeted "She has never deserved respect and will never receive it."

Julia Gillard has had problems like any political leader but she was the Prime Minister. She was the first female Prime Minister. She was leader a minority government while introducing significant projects and reforms. She lead Australia through difficult times while delivering unprecedented results. She did this while being berated from all sides by both supposed friends and political foes as well as a horrendously poor media.

But she deserves no respect according to Joe Hockey and I imagine a great many more people - the type of people who love writing "worst prime minister ever' on tabloid trash news sites. Gillard was certainly treated with little more than complete contempt and all the time she maintained her poise, she kept doing her job as leader of the country admirably, and she kept delivering for the people of Australia.

The truth is that Australia has had it so bloody good while this Government has been in power that it's forgotten what normal is. It has bought completely the lines from Tony Abbott, Rupert Murdoch, and Gina Rinehart that Australia is in economic, social, and political turmoil and the only thing to do about it is to give the obscenely wealthy more power and money.

If Australia was more than a blip on the global radar screen people would be astounded. I certainly am.

But thankfully I'm not Australian nor do I live in Australia. I've never been quite so thankful of that as right now. Because people generally get the Government they deserve and with Rudd back I can't see how it won't be Tony Abbott's Coalition. I hope it won't be for the sake of Australia, I hope that somehow Rudd's return means a flood of relieved people flock back to the ALP. My greatest hope is that the Coalition start seeing Rudd as a threat and think to dumping Abbott, then I get to not care who wins the election.

But I don't think they will and I think the ALP deserves support less than ever right now. It took three years of gentle and not so gentle nudging and fear campaigning by the media and Opposition but Labor's nerve and resolve did not hold. They reacted just how Abbott and Murdoch hoped they would. Now they are potentially days away from an election with their ministry in tatters, their credibility sunk, and a Coalition re-stocked with non-policy related ammunition.

Well I will at least say this, it's still entertaining.

And I'm sure Gillard's legacy will be more appreciated in hindsight with the removal of the venom of the current political climate and media agenda-pushing. And I'm sure she'll go off to join Helen Clark in a nice UN job somewhere and be quite happy thank you very much. She has a reason to be proud of her short time as Australia's Prime Minister. Right now though I hope the media and the Opposition take a breath, realise that they've vanquished and destroyed the career of a good leader and maybe lighten up just a little bit. Concentrate on discussing policy for a while maybe, that might be a nice thing to do.

Here's hoping.

Ty wrote:

Australia proved unequivocally through the last three years that it is not mature enough to have a female leader. Misogyny rants may have not done Gillard any favours but the truth of what she is saying is undeniable. While she was PM:

- Australia escaped nearly unscathed from the Global Financial Crisis, (Deputy PM under Rudd and as PM.)
- Australia maintained continued growth, (through the GFC,)
- Australia maintained low unemployment, (through the GFC,)
- Australia gained a AAA credit rating from all ratings agencies.
- Australia was rated "highest standard of living" by the OECD for two years in a row.

Thats hardly Gillard's personal doing though, or Labor's, or the Coalition's, thats the culmination of the last 40 years plus the growth of China.