Um lets see.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
firstly, how is it "boundless snobbery" to insist non-specialists don't dictate the content of specialists work? it's the same sentiments dilbert would feel if a manager with a business/finance degree tried to look over his shoulder and give advice/direction on his engineering design. the exact same thing. if you're going to publicly fund academics, that's fine, but do so with the traditional (and key) principle of 'free enquiry' intact. science/maths directed towards 'profitable' or 'patent-able' ends does not create great intellectual development. a manager derived from a managerial-business class telling a person with 20+ years of research experience 'what to do' is a rankling idea. "boundless snobbery"? please. boundless bias and petty resentment, maybe.
and no, knowledge is not "the most easily transferred commodity". if it was, universities would be in ruins. everyone would be taking online courses or enrolling at open universities. the fact is the university still has a lot of benefits and premiums on 'knowledge' - or at least enough to still argue practically for their benefits w/r/t an international cachet of scholars and ambitious workers. and no, "academic writing" is not "available for free". it never has been. the main corpus of it likely never will be. it is extremely expensive for a lay-person to get access to an academic journal. could your statements be any more factually incorrect? you have been posting in this thread for months with a seemingly obstinate insistence on being wrong, yet arguing as if you have a clue...
oh, and before you rant about that fact (which i won't have the pleasure to read), let me disclaim by saying it's a reality of the publishing industry, not academia. academics have to negotiate and deal with the measures/economics imposed on their work by the academic publishing industry themselves. many academics are trying to reform that, and are starting 'outsider' journals with open-access at their core. so don't use that as more stupid ammo in your dumb anti-academia arguments. not that research or facts have interested you thus far...
Free doesn't sound cripplingly expensive.E-journals and Databases
Online access to a large and growing selection of academic resources is available to University alumni at no charge. There are presently over 20,000 e-journals, magazines, newspapers, and over 12,000 e-books and reports available to Alumni through the University of Adelaide Library.
What is available?
Complete lists of the journal titles available through these resources appear below [not all titles listed are available to the University]:
■Academic Search Alumni* - covers 3000 journals in most areas of the sciences, social sciences and humanities.
■Business Source Alumni<* - covers 6200 journals and 1,700 ebooks in marketing, management, MIS, accounting, finance, econometrics, economics and more./em>
■Annual Reviews - review articles in many areas of academic enquiry.
■CSIRO Journals - important Australian research reports in agriculture, biological and health sciences
■Oxford English Dictionary - the most authoritative and complete dictionary of the English language
■Oxford Journals Online - 200 high quality research journals covering a broad range of subjects
■PressDisplay - Cover-to-cover presentation online of the print versions of over 1100 newspapers from around the world. Backfile is 30 days. All titles are browseable and searchable.
■Project MUSE - over 300 top humanities and social sciences journals from US university presses
■SourceOECD - includes everything published by the OECD (books, journals, series, working papers, databases) on subjects as diverse as general economy, statistics, agriculture, science, future studies and the environment.
■SpringerLINK - Springer is the second-largest journal publisher worldwide, with over 1200 journals and 3 million articles available.
■Taylor & Francis Journals - T&F are among the largest journal publishers in the world. Alumni can, for 2010-11, join current University staff and students in accessing over 1000 T&F journals.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-05-06 03:21:26)
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-05-06 03:19:52)
Last edited by Spark (2013-05-06 03:25:19)
which is funded by academia. but you think academia is all fluff so lolzDilbert_X wrote:
I'm talking about academic libraries, derp.
If its published in a journal chances are its available for free, or for a small access fee to the database.Uzique wrote:
no, "academic writing" is not "available for free". it never has been. the main corpus of it likely never will be. it is extremely expensive for a lay-person to get access to an academic journal. could your statements be any more factually incorrect?
you are absolutely tripping. to access a journal essay without some sort of institutional log-in/affiliation, you are looking at hundreds of pounds, per journal. if you can get access to a university library then yes, perhaps you'll be able to read that journal whilst staying inside the library (most university libraries don't let alumni take out journals; students normally can only short-loan them). the british library's research journals and proper academic archives generally aren't disturbed much by some average joe off the street, either. you need a membership.Dilbert_X wrote:
Uzique is sayingIf its published in a journal chances are its available for free, or for a small access fee to the database.Uzique wrote:
no, "academic writing" is not "available for free". it never has been. the main corpus of it likely never will be. it is extremely expensive for a lay-person to get access to an academic journal. could your statements be any more factually incorrect?
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-06 03:29:05)
http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v110/i18/e182301 costs me $25 if I want to read the published copy and not a preprint. For one article.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
you are absolutely tripping. to access a journal in an essay without some sort of institutional log-in/affiliation, you are looking at hundreds of pounds, per journal.Dilbert_X wrote:
Uzique is sayingIf its published in a journal chances are its available for free, or for a small access fee to the database.Uzique wrote:
no, "academic writing" is not "available for free". it never has been. the main corpus of it likely never will be. it is extremely expensive for a lay-person to get access to an academic journal. could your statements be any more factually incorrect?
Last edited by Spark (2013-05-06 03:28:32)
or be a student at university, you know being part of academia.Dilbert_X wrote:
You mean essay in a journal I guess.
There are ways and means, as I've pointed out. Libraries pay the subs, anyone can access them for a small fee or for nothing.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-06 03:36:37)
Or open access, but that comes with its own series of costs and issues.Cybargs wrote:
or be a student at university, you know being part of academia.Dilbert_X wrote:
You mean essay in a journal I guess.
There are ways and means, as I've pointed out. Libraries pay the subs, anyone can access them for a small fee or for nothing.
In the end academic journals are never "free" unless they are seriously outdated. good luck finding relevant research journals at a non-university affiliated library.
my experience of open access generally goes thusly:Spark wrote:
Or open access, but that comes with its own series of costs and issues.Cybargs wrote:
or be a student at university, you know being part of academia.Dilbert_X wrote:
You mean essay in a journal I guess.
There are ways and means, as I've pointed out. Libraries pay the subs, anyone can access them for a small fee or for nothing.
In the end academic journals are never "free" unless they are seriously outdated. good luck finding relevant research journals at a non-university affiliated library.
Why not make any and all public domain content freely available?
We do not believe that just because something is in the public domain, it can always be provided for free. There are costs associated with selection, digitization, access provision, preservation, and a wide variety of services that are necessary for content to reach those who need it. We have determined that we can sustain free access and meet our preservation obligations for this particular set of content for individuals as part of our overall activities undertaken in pursuit of our mission.
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-06 03:40:10)
I had a uni professor who had a personal subscription to a journal so one of our required readings was from that journal. 90% of the class couldn't find the free online version.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
my experience of open access generally goes thusly:Spark wrote:
Or open access, but that comes with its own series of costs and issues.Cybargs wrote:
or be a student at university, you know being part of academia.
In the end academic journals are never "free" unless they are seriously outdated. good luck finding relevant research journals at a non-university affiliated library.
"oh great! this journal publishes some content for free! brilliant".
"hmm, well that issue isn't very good".
"<sorry, this essay you have selected does not come under our free access scheme>"
"fuck"Why not make any and all public domain content freely available?
We do not believe that just because something is in the public domain, it can always be provided for free. There are costs associated with selection, digitization, access provision, preservation, and a wide variety of services that are necessary for content to reach those who need it. We have determined that we can sustain free access and meet our preservation obligations for this particular set of content for individuals as part of our overall activities undertaken in pursuit of our mission.
Last edited by Spark (2013-05-06 03:42:50)
I could, if I could be bothered, access Oxford Journals Online, for free, as I already posted, if you'd been paying attention.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
here's the cost, per issue, of one academic journal. one. i use about 25-30 for every piece of work i do.
have fun.
http://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journ … _list.html
and how many people do you think go to their alma mater's library, where they have an alumni card/membership, to read one new journal article? that's a long way to go every single month to keep abreast of the latest cutting-edge research, no? you are talking shit. you said all academic information is free, when it patently isn't. the fact you can access it in a library doesn't mean it's 'free', it means a library with favorable financial arrangements with the publishers are covering all the costs for you. have fun taking a 4 hour train-ride and paying £50 for a day-trip every time you need to access a journal. so 'free'.
plus, i already told you, in today's age of online resources and research scholarship, it's very rare to find a library that stocks every single journal. they will only keep a subscription to a 'useful'/specifically demanded list. and have fun requesting a library get a journal in for you when you are no longer an enrolled student. "hi there, i'm a random guy, nice library by the way. could you spend a few thousand and get an annual subscription to a journal for me? i'm trying to prove a point on the internet, you see"
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/library/memb … lumni.htmlOnline access to a large and growing selection of academic resources is available to University alumni at no charge. There are presently over 20,000 e-journals, magazines, newspapers, and over 12,000 e-books and reports available to Alumni through the University of Adelaide Library.
nothing about that is free. you need to pay membership to the library to get that access.Dilbert_X wrote:
I could, if I could be bothered, access Oxford Journals Online, for free, as I already posted, if you'd been paying attention.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
here's the cost, per issue, of one academic journal. one. i use about 25-30 for every piece of work i do.
have fun.
http://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journ … _list.html
and how many people do you think go to their alma mater's library, where they have an alumni card/membership, to read one new journal article? that's a long way to go every single month to keep abreast of the latest cutting-edge research, no? you are talking shit. you said all academic information is free, when it patently isn't. the fact you can access it in a library doesn't mean it's 'free', it means a library with favorable financial arrangements with the publishers are covering all the costs for you. have fun taking a 4 hour train-ride and paying £50 for a day-trip every time you need to access a journal. so 'free'.
plus, i already told you, in today's age of online resources and research scholarship, it's very rare to find a library that stocks every single journal. they will only keep a subscription to a 'useful'/specifically demanded list. and have fun requesting a library get a journal in for you when you are no longer an enrolled student. "hi there, i'm a random guy, nice library by the way. could you spend a few thousand and get an annual subscription to a journal for me? i'm trying to prove a point on the internet, you see"http://www.adelaide.edu.au/library/memb … lumni.htmlOnline access to a large and growing selection of academic resources is available to University alumni at no charge. There are presently over 20,000 e-journals, magazines, newspapers, and over 12,000 e-books and reports available to Alumni through the University of Adelaide Library.
All I need to do is dig out my union card and I'm in.
https://login.proxy.library.adelaide.ed … ournals%2f
Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-06 03:47:29)
Right so you actually have to attend the library and read the books anyway? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
there are 101 ways your access to a journal could be limited in ways you wouldn't expect. maybe your institution isn't part of the list that subscribes to it / subscribes to another bulk provider or service that for some reason hasn't included that journal/particular issue. maybe the journal is now out of print/circulation. your university library perhaps doesn't stock every single issue ever released in the journals 25/50/100/200 year history.
most of my academic research actually takes place using books. easier to access and get hold of. more informative, of course, too. i generally only use journals to corroborate with other 'current' research, and to show that i have assayed and understand the current field of research. i'll maybe bounce around 20-30 references, using and agreeing/dissenting with certain opinions where necessary. generally speaking though, journals are a bit of a head-ache to access. every time i want to get a piece of that 'free' access now, i have to log-in through a remote-access dial-up connection to my university network, punch in my girlfriend's log-in details, and then read away. not technically 'free', seeing as she's paying £9,000 a year for those log-in details.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-05-06 03:54:18)
