BF2S Forums Australian politics thread.

China could stimulate my economy.

Jay wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

lol, saying the LNP are great at running the economy. The QLD LNP government recently and very narrowly avoided a recession, nine months after taking office and after their first budget was handed down complete with job cuts. Abbott will be much worse. Labor might be fucking up their execution but they did navigate us through the GFC in a manner that makes the rest of the world envious.

So you are giving credit to your own government for China conducting massive stimulus to artificially pump up demand in their own country? Congrats, you sold iron to a country that needed it. Hardly something you can thank your politicians for.

Our banks were unusually sound tbf.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I don't see that Abbott is any better or worse than Rudd or Gillard at a personal level, Gillard is corrupt and ready to knife people to gain advantage, when she's a mediocre leader at best.

I know the imagery and the media spin that went along with Gillard taking over from Rudd just loved the notion that Gillard back-stabbed Rudd but I would like to remind you that Rudd actually stepped down. And why did he step down? Because it was made clear to him that he no longer had the support of his colleagues. You want to talk back-stabbed you should recognise that Tony Abbott actually forced a vote which he won against Malcolm Turnbull by one vote. And you've lost me on your claims of corruption. Are you referring to the marginal relation of Gillard to that Slater and Gordon nonsense? That one where she spent about two hours answering questions where nothing was ever brought against her? Or is it just enough that someone gets accused of corruption now? That's how Tony would have it given his calls to unconstitutionally 'fire' a sitting MP - although he doesn't extend that same hard line to himself and his currently brewing legal situation.

As far as policies go, Labor has had some reasonable policies ruined so badly by pisspoor implementation it would have been better if they'd never been thought of - Home Insulation, Carbon Tax, Mining Tax, 'Building the Education Revolution', the NBN for a few and no doubt the NDIS will be next.

I disagree with you on all counts aside from the Mining Tax, and mostly because Gillard compromised too much and let mining companies sell their sob stories. The result was ineffective legislation that hasn't brought in as much revenue as expected. Good that she got a mining tax through, bad that it didn't do what was hoped.

On the other counts though:
- Home insulation was a successful policy that fell down due to poor safety practices within industry. Good scheme, poor implementation by the energy sector. Could the Government have done more? Possibly, but talk to the energy industry and you'll understand that they still like the proposal and fully acknowledge where the blame lies for its failure.
- Carbon tax is so far proving effective, even in its early stages. What's more it hasn't crippled anyone or caused the destruction of any towns or indeed impacted any businesses. It has meant a few one-off costs for some sectors but with government funding to people and grants to projects that reduce carbon emissions and thereby making them exempt from paying any tax at all. What's more it is not responsible for anything Tony Abbott claims it is, though that's not to say his fierce fear campaign didn't do it's part to impact national business confidence.
- Building the Education Revolution was a success. There were some questions over why some projects were funded over others but that was always going to be the case. It bolstered the construction sector during a difficult time while improving school facilities. Even the Coalition has given up trying to pick holes in this.
- The NBN is supported by over three quarters of the population. It's why the Abbott Coalition moved from a stance of wanting to utterly destroy it to one of building their own patchwork version that will ultimately cost more and deliver less. The Government's NBN is also on track and on budget according to NBN Co.
- The only one dicking over the NDIS at the moment is Abbott by today all but saying he would only support the measures necessary to fund it until he's had the chance to repeal it and add it to his pile of uncosted policies which he expects the Government's general revenue stream to cover.

I'm not interested in voting for a party run by left-wing apparatchiks who have never worked in the private sector. Love or hate the coalition they do have some background in business, business is important for the economy, if you don't have an economy to pay for it you can't run social programs.

Speaking as someone from a country where people thought the exact same thing so elected a business-minded currency trader as Prime Minister I can't stress how wrong this opinion is. It certainly hasn't worked here.

But the key point of difference is that businesses exist to make a profit. Governments do not. It's a completely different model. Business experience helps you in relationships with business but it doesn't help you manage a country any better.

I know Abbott's big thing is complaining about the, (actually quite reasonable,) deficit and keeps saying he's return a surplus, (without explaining how.) What the fuck does it matter if Australia has a surplus if that money isn't going into anything worthwhile? Abbott gets to crow about being fiscally responsible. So the fuck what!? Is there a rating above AAA that Australia can obtain? Not saying that surpluses are without merit but I am saying that it is exceptionally poor governance to hamstring social services and public institutions for the sole purpose of one. And that's what Tony Abbott's saying he'll do.

Any economist will tell you that as far as Governments are concerned deficits are a good thing so long as the money is being put into investment. And that is what this ALP Government is doing. So long as there are moves to ensure a healthy revenue stream, and there are as long as Abbott doesn't hamstring those too, spending is very much a positive.

Borrowing from the future to fund nice-to-have programs which won't return anything is not what govt should be doing however socially reasonable it seems.

Christ's sake man, it is the Government's responsibility to pay for the things that shouldn't have to make a return. You never struck me as someone with much of a grasp of the purpose of government and politics but if you haven't grasped this point yet there really is little hope for you.

Looking at just the parties and not the leaders, they're both piss-poor but the coalition does have some kind of track record of succesfully running the country.

Now I know you're mental. I recommend you look at the actual track records for both and draw a conclusion from that. It might help you to take a look at the situation from a perspective that isn't clouded by current media bullshit.

Jay wrote:

Spark wrote:

Jay wrote:

So you are giving credit to your own government for China conducting massive stimulus to artificially pump up demand in their own country? Congrats, you sold iron to a country that needed it. Hardly something you can thank your politicians for.

Our banks were unusually sound tbf.

Are there a lot of Europeans buying vacation homes there? Vacation homes are what went bust in the US and Europe for the most part.

Mostly Chinese buying up all the property in Sydney.

In Australia we have laws that prevent non-citizens from purchasing property for investment purposes, so if you're not a legal resident you can't buy a house anyway. Ton's of immigrants have to sell their houses after their visa expires/cant renew. Lot's of Chinese get local Chinese/Taiwanese citizens to buy property for them under their name to dodge the whole non-citizen property restriction thing.

It's not exactly stopping them anyway...

We have a bit of a housing affordability crisis in the country, though, so that could be it. Though abolishing negative gearing would be a much better way of tackling.

Last edited by Spark (2013-05-01 20:38:44)

Cybargs wrote:

Jay wrote:

Why on earth are foreigners prevented from owning property? What a silly rule. Leaving property tax dollars on the table.

protectionist mechanism to prevent property prices from soaring so local Australians will be able to afford to buy homes. Taiwan has some retarded property prices vs income levels. 1 million USD+ for tons of apartments and people make on average 17k USD a year. guess where all the investment is coming in from. Kinda like the same reason why your government forced banks to give loans to underqualified people, it's to give people a chance of being home owners and shit.

edit: jay remember we have this huge anti-immigrant mentality in Australia

You have an entire continent though. Build more houses if there is a housing crunch

So build vertically?

Jay wrote:

So build vertically?

people want houses bro

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Jay wrote:

So build vertically?

people want houses bro

Then expect high housing costs. Not everyone can live in a house within walking distance of mass transit and have a five minute commute to work/play. That's some serious 'I want it all' crap.

You realize there are a ton of high-rise properties in Australia right? Apartments are pretty expensive here too.

Come on jay, you know economics and reservation price shit and choices that people make.

Macbeth wrote:

Dude most people can't afford a million dollar home. House prices get retarded in real estate bubbles.

You know how many multi-millionaires there are in China?

-Whiteroom- wrote:

Enough to bring up real estate value all through BCs lower-mainland.

i know that feel bro.

edit: i remember when i was younger how white trash were bitching about rich asians and thought the government gave them money to buy awesome houses and european cars. pretty lol.

Last edited by Cybargs (2013-05-01 20:58:13)

As a first time home owner, it fucking kills, I want a house with green space. And I'm in a town well away from Vancouver.

I'm looking to buy next year north of NYC. Going to be about an hour commute (one way) by train but I'll be able to get some acreage for a reasonable price ($600k for 2-4 acres or so up there).