Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

that one percent science budget has really been detrimental to the american economy.
Yes, in the grand scheme of the American budget, it's peanuts, but that doesn't mean taxpayer money should be squandered giving grants out to things like:

Coburn features the nearly $3 million in taxpayer money that went to researchers at the University of California at Irvine so they can play video games such as World of Warcraft. The research is designed to help "organizations collaborate and compete more effectively in the global marketplace," the report says.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities … X7eqqt36Yk
That's not even a scientific research. scientific methods used sure, but it doesnt qualify as "science." social science is not science. period.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

Cybargs wrote:

they should just cut the whole science budget. those pesky scientists might something that'll make god angry like that stem cell stuff.
Oh shit we might do stuff like grow bones, flesh and organs that God intended to be lost.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

they should just cut the whole science budget. those pesky scientists might something that'll make god angry like that stem cell stuff.
Science research funding is actually required by our Constitution.
yeah and lets politicize the whole process by picking winners and losers by setting a retarded "criteria." hurr you must produce xyz result or research xyz subject.
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Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

they should just cut the whole science budget. those pesky scientists might something that'll make god angry like that stem cell stuff.
Science research funding is actually required by our Constitution.
Wait wat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

they should just cut the whole science budget. those pesky scientists might something that'll make god angry like that stem cell stuff.
Science research funding is actually required by our Constitution.
Wait wat
“To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.” (Article I, Section 8, Clause 8).

That's patents, the weights and measures clause actually requires money be spent to maintain scientific accuracy in units.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
technically that clause you just cited completely invalidates your idea that all research produced by publicly-funded academics should be public property. that's the sort of clause that would be used in setting a precedent for 'intellectual property' or 'rights', which are basically the immaterial forms of patents. kinda strange you interpret that as a constitutional mandate to "fund research", when really it's more like a property-derived conception of science/art, whereby the 'author' or 'inventor' figure gets the rights to their 'product'.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause
That is a liberal and not at all common or accepted reading of the text. That is like saying the requirement of a post office in the constitution also means we have to fund the internet because of email purposes.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause
That is a liberal and not at all common or accepted reading of the text. That is like saying the requirement of a post office in the constitution also means we have to fund the internet because of email purposes.
It's tenuous, yeah, but I've read interpretations that lean that way. Jefferson originally wanted a national institute for sciences built in.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

Reason.com constitutional interpretations really don't count for much.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/0 … itics?lite

obama: science funding shouldn't be subject to politics.

dun dun dunnn.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6462|Escea

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

they should just cut the whole science budget. those pesky scientists might something that'll make god angry like that stem cell stuff.
Oh shit we might do stuff like grow bones, flesh and organs that God intended to be lost.
Or a trachea

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/30/scien … ;_r=1&

I actually thought they'd done this before, but this might be the first one made entirely from organic material. I think the last one was more of an artificial framework.

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2013-04-30 08:18:58)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6914|Canberra, AUS
people have been doing that around the world for years, it's nothing new. whether you think it's wise, it's a fairly important part of fighting a virus which mutates so rapidly.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

Creating new, deadlier viruses faster than they can evolve on their own in facilities with a less-than-stellar track record for safety is a really great way to fight illness. Maybe they can find ways to increase its resistance to extreme environments all over the planet and make it communicable by every imaginable vector. Anything to cure the common cold!
Nyte
Legendary BF2S Veteran
+535|6991|Toronto, ON
Why are religious/republican/conservative people opposed to stem cell research?  I don't understand.  Did these fucktards grow up in the backwards-barn or funny-farm?
Alpha as fuck.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
i think even some progressives/liberals are wary about the fringes of bio-tech. not stem cell research per se, but generally the whole frontier of biology, where there is very little in the way of a normative value system or established ethics. some of the stuff is so far beyond any sort of previous medicine/pharma use that literally no philosophical or ethical standards exist. it's a big 'in' thing right now, giving a lot of moral philosophers something to talk about (that and global warming / humans-in-nature / humans-as-animals type stuff).
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6978|Toronto | Canada

Far too much of the biotech fear comes from people who havent even taken basic, first year biology.  The fear of any alteration to what is "normal", "natural", or "what has always been done" is simply from lack of education.  Even just bringing up that tomatoes as we know them didnt exist until recently through artificial selection usually makes people rethink their opinions.

Also: I wish I was in the US to get in on this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ant … electricit
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

"requires addition of luciferin"

Devil's work!
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493

Winston_Churchill wrote:

Far too much of the biotech fear comes from people who havent even taken basic, first year biology.  The fear of any alteration to what is "normal", "natural", or "what has always been done" is simply from lack of education.  Even just bringing up that tomatoes as we know them didnt exist until recently through artificial selection usually makes people rethink their opinions.

Also: I wish I was in the US to get in on this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ant … electricit
well that first line doesn't really work against senior philosophers and people with medical degrees who are working in the fields of ethics. i can understand the 'lay person's' distrust of biotech, but the philosopher? really? trans-humanism is a huge field at the moment, and it's criss-crossed with both theoretical and quite practical issues. it's interesting. i'm not anti-biotech, by any means... but i am broadly in line with much 20th century philosophy that is skeptical and pessimistic about rationalism, i.e. the dialectic of enlightenment. i just hold a healthy cynicism that some of these 'advances' could actually bring us closer to forms of barbarism. but that's very high-falutin, and is based in lots of abstruse neo-hegelian ideas. on the more mundane level - the practical everyday - i have no problems with biotech, or how it could enrich our lives.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-05-03 21:33:26)

Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6978|Toronto | Canada

I'm not talking about altering humanity or anything like that, but the basic principle of altering a plant at its genetic level is really not a principle that many educated people consider unethical on any level.  The act of artificial genetic selection is, at its core, a highly accelerated method of artificial manual selection (like what we've done with breeding) which is again, quite similar to natural selection.  We're really only speeding up the process of evolution, a concept that is hammered into the head of every student in a first year EEB course.

Obviously, this technique becomes a little more complicated when you're splicing genes from species that would never interact or breed, but the principle holds in general.  My first point was obviously not targeted towards senior philosophers or people with medical degrees who have knowledge of the subject.  I was clearly talking about the general populace that feels like anything GMO or "unnatural" is wrong and will lead to zombies, vampires, locusts, etc.  I wasn't targeting high-level philosophical arguments but just the uneducated opinion of far too many that needs to change.
Nyte
Legendary BF2S Veteran
+535|6991|Toronto, ON
I would make a reasonable assumption and say these are the same types of people who opposed the Large Hadron Collider.
Alpha as fuck.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

It would still be nice if we could use our WAAARRR money to build some of these facilities in space and conduct experiments that have even an insignificant chance for disaster out there rather than on the only planet with humans.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

It would still be nice if we could use our WAAARRR money to build some of these facilities in space and conduct experiments that have even an insignificant chance for disaster out there rather than on the only planet with humans.
Staph watching alien movies
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

Winston_Churchill wrote:

Far too much of the biotech fear comes from people who havent even taken basic, first year biology.  The fear of any alteration to what is "normal", "natural", or "what has always been done" is simply from lack of education.  Even just bringing up that tomatoes as we know them didnt exist until recently through artificial selection usually makes people rethink their opinions.

Also: I wish I was in the US to get in on this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ant … electricit
This.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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