Three telcos are on board, to stop the NBN now would require renegotiating contracts worth tens of billions of dollars with infrastructure having already commenced roll out two years ago. It's already well into the phase of operation so to turn around now is just stupid. Our economy is strong and will continue to be so for quite some time. The LNP's plan is just a half arsed attempt that will cost more money in the long run.
Companies are involved. it just makes it quicker to roll out when it's done by the gov. What about the high speed rail plan then? It's essentially building a travel luxury isn't it?Jay wrote:
If it was actually going to be profitable, they would've had no problem lining up private investors.Cybargs wrote:
I don't think you know how the NBN payment plan is going to work. NBN co is going to build the lines, then sell the lines to telcos and then NBN co will take all revenue and give it back to the government.Jay wrote:
He just understands the difference between 'need' and 'want' and questions why your government is asked to pay for peoples 'wants'.The government already started the NBN project and they're not going to shut it down. pointless having a debate about it tbh.NBN Co's corporate plan estimates it will require A$27.5 billion in Government equity and raise an estimated A$13.4 billion in debt funding without government support, a total funding requirement of A$40.9 billion up to FY2021. Financial forecasts for NBN Co assuming a 7% Internal Rate of Return (IRR) expect the Government and Debt equity will be fully repaid including accrued interest by FY2040
Yes, and it's a giant waste of money. California's high speed rail will never turn a profit.Cybargs wrote:
Companies are involved. it just makes it quicker to roll out when it's done by the gov. What about the high speed rail plan then? It's essentially building a travel luxury isn't it?Jay wrote:
If it was actually going to be profitable, they would've had no problem lining up private investors.Cybargs wrote:
I don't think you know how the NBN payment plan is going to work. NBN co is going to build the lines, then sell the lines to telcos and then NBN co will take all revenue and give it back to the government.Jay wrote:
He just understands the difference between 'need' and 'want' and questions why your government is asked to pay for peoples 'wants'.
The government already started the NBN project and they're not going to shut it down. pointless having a debate about it tbh.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Too bad california. they're building one in Aus and will pretty much destroy the airmarket for sydney/melbourne-canberra. I'm sure the Japanese and people in Taiwan didn't complain much about their high speed rail system.Jay wrote:
Yes, and it's a giant waste of money. California's high speed rail will never turn a profit.Cybargs wrote:
Companies are involved. it just makes it quicker to roll out when it's done by the gov. What about the high speed rail plan then? It's essentially building a travel luxury isn't it?Jay wrote:
If it was actually going to be profitable, they would've had no problem lining up private investors.
Yeah? Because there are tens of thousands of people that travel between sydney, melbourne and canberra every single day?Cybargs wrote:
Too bad california. they're building one in Aus and will pretty much destroy the airmarket for sydney/melbourne-canberra. I'm sure the Japanese and people in Taiwan didn't complain much about their high speed rail system.Jay wrote:
Yes, and it's a giant waste of money. California's high speed rail will never turn a profit.Cybargs wrote:
Companies are involved. it just makes it quicker to roll out when it's done by the gov. What about the high speed rail plan then? It's essentially building a travel luxury isn't it?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
and that's just sydney-melbourne. there's also huge travel between sydney-canberra and melbourne-canberra.
Well I'll be damned. Why on earth are so many people travelling between those two cities?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Because they're the two largest cities in Australia? Ton's of uni kids from sydney go on break to melbourne and vice versa. lots of business travel too.Jay wrote:
Well I'll be damned. Why on earth are so many people travelling between those two cities?
Edit: just did the numbers its around 18k daily.
Last edited by Cybargs (2013-04-11 08:25:33)
gold coast/brisbane to sydney is around 6 million as well.
You're still making the assumption that most of those passengers will take the train instead. Guess we'll see.Cybargs wrote:
Because they're the two largest cities in Australia? Ton's of uni kids from sydney go on break to melbourne and vice versa. lots of business travel too.Jay wrote:
Well I'll be damned. Why on earth are so many people travelling between those two cities?
Edit: just did the numbers its around 18k daily.
Personally, except for novelty, I don't see much advantage in taking the train vs flying. You still have limited baggage and have to rent a car or take a taxi when you arrive. Unless the train fare is subsidized in perpetuity it won't differ all that much from air fare either, and if it is subsidized, that takes away almost all of the benefit...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Well how long does it take to check into a flight? You got all this security screening that's happened due to 9/11, boarding and take off takes ages. wait for baggage etc etc.Jay wrote:
You're still making the assumption that most of those passengers will take the train instead. Guess we'll see.Cybargs wrote:
Because they're the two largest cities in Australia? Ton's of uni kids from sydney go on break to melbourne and vice versa. lots of business travel too.Jay wrote:
Well I'll be damned. Why on earth are so many people travelling between those two cities?
Edit: just did the numbers its around 18k daily.
Personally, except for novelty, I don't see much advantage in taking the train vs flying. You still have limited baggage and have to rent a car or take a taxi when you arrive. Unless the train fare is subsidized in perpetuity it won't differ all that much from air fare either, and if it is subsidized, that takes away almost all of the benefit...
The cities of melbourne and sydney have good public transportation, no need to rent a car really.
The estimates is that it's going to completely take 100% of the sydney-canberra route (55 minutes flight, but you have to account for the 1 hour preboard check in, so that's an extra hour just waiting). It'll roughly take half of the sydney-melbourne and sydney-brisbane/gold coast air routes as well.
As an aside: partly due to awesome location, but since in Sydney I have barely driven my car. It's not moved in over a fortnight, and then it was only for a job interview. In Brisbane I lived right near a bus route and even closer to the city (around 3.5km) and still drove my car almost every single day.Cybargs wrote:
The cities of melbourne and sydney have good public transportation, no need to rent a car really.
I bet your loving the nearby restaurants and shops + close to a train station as well xD
Anyway, I'm not sold on the high speed rail idea. It's a massive outlay. Difference between this and the NBN is the NBN benefits something like 99.7% of the country, whereas high speed rail benefits those travelling the east coast. I'm not totally against the idea, just not convinced.
Yeah there's a lot of options that's for sure. My bus (M20) is two blocks away and drops me off at work in Surry Hills near Central, two blocks from workCybargs wrote:
I bet your loving the nearby restaurants and shops + close to a train station as well xD
Those flight numbers will be significantly inflated due to a lot if international flights going in and out of Sydney going via Melbourne for some odd reason.
Don't make me laugh, Sydney has abysmal public transport. It goes no where you want it to, it's slow expensive and always late and melbournes not much better.Cybargs wrote:
The cities of melbourne and sydney have good public transportation, no need to rent a car really.
Yeah but thats because you live in Manly. If you live near a rail link your life is good. Aussies just love to whinge about things, jesus it's not that bad. At least you're not getting packed like sardines on the trains in sydney.
The Coalition are retarded.
Coalition to bring in the drones against asylum boats
/sarcasm
Coalition to bring in the drones against asylum boats
Yeah, I can't see any problems arising from this. And it's such an efficient use of taxpayer's moneyUnmanned aerial drone surveillance will form part of a Coalition government's measures to halt the flow of asylum seeker boats, defence spokesman Senator David Johnston has said.
He also suggested officers on Customs and Navy boats in remote international waters would be given the job of deciding whether asylum seekers were genuine.
Senator Johnston said on Thursday that the opposition would spend $1.5 billion on seven drones and aim to have them patrolling Australia's waters and international waters within four to five years.
/sarcasm
They don't even have missiles!? The US would be ashamed.
that's not that far from 99.7% of the country tbhJaekus wrote:
Anyway, I'm not sold on the high speed rail idea. It's a massive outlay. Difference between this and the NBN is the NBN benefits something like 99.7% of the country, whereas high speed rail benefits those travelling the east coast. I'm not totally against the idea, just not convinced.
i'm not entirely sold on it either but our infrastructure is becoming very, very overcrowded - especially our airports - so i could be convinced. even so, a second sydney airport is a way way way way higher priority than this.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Drones patrolling Australia's coast in 4-5 years? But Tony, you said you'd solve the asylum seeker problem within your first few months.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
What a open minded society
no one evens knows australia exist. i'm not joking. cuba, mexico, south america, the middle east, europe, africa, india, china, russia, south africa, japan and even the phillipines get a mention in our news before someone utters the word 'australia' only to recognize that they meant "austria."
lol