I use claymores only for self defence , no rash to enemy spawns etc
Last edited by Longbow (2006-05-24 23:55:16)
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- Nerf the f'ing claymores!!!!
Poll
Should they nerf claymores?
| Yes | 37% | 37% - 192 | ||||
| No I'm a filthy claywhore who cant get points with guns | 62% | 62% - 314 | ||||
| Total: 506 | ||||||
i wish u could jus blow up a claymore by chucking a c4 on it and detonating the c4.
coz i usually use up all of my grenades jus after i spawn and i only have c4 left.
coz i usually use up all of my grenades jus after i spawn and i only have c4 left.
The best way to deal with clay's : make one shot from each weapon detonates claymore . Then people will start thinking , how to place clay so victim wouldnt see it ...
NERFING FTW!!
Bring back the Goldeneye days of N64 - Slappers only!!!
Kidding, quit whining about everything that kills you and get better at the damn game so you DON'T get killed by it!
All i usually do if i REALLY need to go the route blocked by the clay is stop and pretend to be doing my shoelace or sommat and let someone else too stupid to look run up that alley!
You should expect 3 things on karkand - Medics who won't heal you but wait for you to die to revive you,
- people who spam the clays
- armour whores who own the map
Quit whining and find another server, another game and/or another forum to bitch on
Love you all
Buckles
Bring back the Goldeneye days of N64 - Slappers only!!!
Kidding, quit whining about everything that kills you and get better at the damn game so you DON'T get killed by it!
All i usually do if i REALLY need to go the route blocked by the clay is stop and pretend to be doing my shoelace or sommat and let someone else too stupid to look run up that alley!
You should expect 3 things on karkand - Medics who won't heal you but wait for you to die to revive you,
- people who spam the clays
- armour whores who own the map
Quit whining and find another server, another game and/or another forum to bitch on
Love you all
Buckles
I'm not even going to post your stupid, childish 'Poll'
Stop playing on "FF off" servers you whinging bastards and go play on a 'real' server
Stop playing on "FF off" servers you whinging bastards and go play on a 'real' server
I just wish for them to be detonatable by grenade like they use to be as others have stated. Mines also. Throwing(yes throwing=jump+toss) a mine next to a tank and tossing a grenade at the mine was my favorite tactic early on. Good times, made the game a bit more fun.
I agree claymores/mines shouldn't be nerfed against enemies, in fact claymore should do more damage to light vehicles. Furthermore, the nerfing against friendlies should be pretty much removed, they should damage friendlies as well. It's not a toy we're talking about, they are supposed to kill.
Though I'd like to add that TKing for planes is ultimately a problem of unbalanced jet power (won't go into detail about that in this thread). Instead of nerfing M95, mines, runway and whatnot the core of the problem should be attacked.
As you said it's the punish that get players kicked, not the TK as such. With disabled punish (after some time) no one can step on the claymore just to get players kicked. Death by claymore/mine should also count as a suicide (-2).Psycho wrote:
uh, no. With FF on you still get the TK and the -4. Punishing is only used as an automated method to kick people from the server. That is the reason FF can now be turned off for claymores and mines. To many friendlies were mindlessly getting themselves killed by stupidly not minding the red skull and crossbones.voltage wrote:
FF on, punish off.
Yes. Punish should be on for the first 5-15 seconds and then disabled.bigp66 wrote:
good idea but then a lot of people would start tken for planes, choppers, etc.
Though I'd like to add that TKing for planes is ultimately a problem of unbalanced jet power (won't go into detail about that in this thread). Instead of nerfing M95, mines, runway and whatnot the core of the problem should be attacked.
Ok, so you guys all love the guy who just runs around the spawn placing Claymores? That is fair?
People's mistake is even trying for the flag at the Hotel on Karkand.. grenades, claymores, mines.. its a death trap. The whole area needs to be marked off as a no-walk zone and you should attack the flanks.
People's mistake is even trying for the flag at the Hotel on Karkand.. grenades, claymores, mines.. its a death trap. The whole area needs to be marked off as a no-walk zone and you should attack the flanks.
I play agressively and mostly sf so I do get killed by clays quite often. I don't mind them as such, but they're detection radius seems bugged to me, when ff is on u can actually walk around friendly clays, or you used to be able to, as long as you didn't stand directly on it it was ok.
When they are enemy claymores it doesnt seem possible to run around a corner, see one and stop in time, like posted above the radious is like 10-15 feet in game. I always see the clay that kills me, but just as i spot it and want to press back it detonates. If they are placed on stairs you can get quite close because you are 'below' the level of the mine. I've seen people manage to prone right over clays, but I never managed it myself.
They shouldn't be made ineffective, but they are used alot in game, by changing the radious, or allowing them to be destructable this would be helped. But forcing FF on would help too, yes clay users would hate their team mates stupidly walking over them time and again, but it would stop them being used too much.
When they are enemy claymores it doesnt seem possible to run around a corner, see one and stop in time, like posted above the radious is like 10-15 feet in game. I always see the clay that kills me, but just as i spot it and want to press back it detonates. If they are placed on stairs you can get quite close because you are 'below' the level of the mine. I've seen people manage to prone right over clays, but I never managed it myself.
They shouldn't be made ineffective, but they are used alot in game, by changing the radious, or allowing them to be destructable this would be helped. But forcing FF on would help too, yes clay users would hate their team mates stupidly walking over them time and again, but it would stop them being used too much.
fuck these "objective" polls. make a yes or no.
+1voltage wrote:
FF on, punish off.
Just a couple of observations.
First off BF2 (and the series for that matter) has always been base off team oriented game play.
Second there is a med kit available
put the two together and claymores wont be an issue.
I have a headache from all all the whining.
First off BF2 (and the series for that matter) has always been base off team oriented game play.
Second there is a med kit available
put the two together and claymores wont be an issue.
I have a headache from all all the whining.
Last edited by KounterKill (2006-05-25 11:21:45)
Where's the third option: a simple no without the commentary?
I use claymores a lot since I pretty much do nothing but snipe these days and as they stand I think they should have IFF as they do normally (post 1.2?) since they're next to useless in the game without this... if you're sniping from a hide and using one to cover the approach it denies the area to anyone else on your team. But I do think it's silly that you can't get rid of them with grenades or another kind of explosive ordinance: if you're lucky/careful enough to spot one you should be able to get rid of it (ditto with C4 and mines).
A tweak to the system I think would be good, and would help separate the needless whining - ooh I got killed by a clay, waaaah - from more legitimate complaints about their misplacement or overuse would be to have them set off by a tripline which would have to be set, meaning a two-part placement that would take a moment. That way a sniper couldn't just drop one instantly while evading trouble or running into a room full of enemies (one of my favourite cheapie tactics ) plus it gives a skillful player a chance to avoid it. This would be coupled with them being dangerous to friendlies too - the red skull-and-crossbones would help anyone on your team with half a brain see where it's placed and jump over the tripline.
I use claymores a lot since I pretty much do nothing but snipe these days and as they stand I think they should have IFF as they do normally (post 1.2?) since they're next to useless in the game without this... if you're sniping from a hide and using one to cover the approach it denies the area to anyone else on your team. But I do think it's silly that you can't get rid of them with grenades or another kind of explosive ordinance: if you're lucky/careful enough to spot one you should be able to get rid of it (ditto with C4 and mines).
A tweak to the system I think would be good, and would help separate the needless whining - ooh I got killed by a clay, waaaah - from more legitimate complaints about their misplacement or overuse would be to have them set off by a tripline which would have to be set, meaning a two-part placement that would take a moment. That way a sniper couldn't just drop one instantly while evading trouble or running into a room full of enemies (one of my favourite cheapie tactics ) plus it gives a skillful player a chance to avoid it. This would be coupled with them being dangerous to friendlies too - the red skull-and-crossbones would help anyone on your team with half a brain see where it's placed and jump over the tripline.
heres my 2 cents, they should give the sniper 4 clays, but he can only place 2 of them, he gets 2 clays that go off automatically when somone trips them, but they take a few seoncds to set up(in real life it would be more like a few minutes ) or he can set up 2 claymores that you have to blow by hand(like C4) and make it so automtic ones wont go off in fields and such only in spaces where you would actually be able to set a tripwire
either way i doubt there too lazy to code this
either way i doubt there too lazy to code this
The only thing they need to nerf on them is the range, I step within 10m of one and my body flies into pieces.
What annoeys me is ytou can't destory them any more, which is retarded. Now you guys scream about how engineers can disarm on if they get behind it, but this requires 2 very important and often not had conditions: A) You are playing an engineer kit while ground pounding and B) You can get behind the claymore without dying.
Reson why A is not practical: DO you honestly think you allways what to go into combat as an engineer just in case you see a claymore? Heck do you even go into combat as an engineer if you don't plan on using or supporting some type of vehicle? Mostly the answer is no to both qeustions. SO you guys basically believe that making it so only one kit can fight against a single type of enemy and I destroy this enemy they have to unequip and defense they have and crawl up to the mine and crank at it a bit? You are retarded if you think that is fair and makes 2 shits worth or sense especailly when a sniper can just run up and drop more in a jiffy.
Reson B: This is the main reason clay are retarded now. If a spawn point happens to be in a bunker (Wake beach spawn) or if the level is a series of halls (Iron Gator) many times you see a clay in the door, facing you, and you have no other way to get around it (or sometimes you do, but would have to increase travel time by a hundred fold and possibly march through enemy territory. So in this case you are stopped by a single claymore that is in the open due to the fact that unless someone runs into it ans triggers it there is no other way to destroy it.
As you can tell the complaints against the claymore stem fro mthe fact you can no longer destroy them with a gernade, which it this was put back in it would only serve to balance the game. Think about it, you can only destory a claymore that you see, so hidding a claymore is a must and beyond that claymores are not nerfed in any other way. So it is plain to see that is the right path to take.
Restore the ability to destroy clays with gernades and you balance clays out.
Reson why A is not practical: DO you honestly think you allways what to go into combat as an engineer just in case you see a claymore? Heck do you even go into combat as an engineer if you don't plan on using or supporting some type of vehicle? Mostly the answer is no to both qeustions. SO you guys basically believe that making it so only one kit can fight against a single type of enemy and I destroy this enemy they have to unequip and defense they have and crawl up to the mine and crank at it a bit? You are retarded if you think that is fair and makes 2 shits worth or sense especailly when a sniper can just run up and drop more in a jiffy.
Reson B: This is the main reason clay are retarded now. If a spawn point happens to be in a bunker (Wake beach spawn) or if the level is a series of halls (Iron Gator) many times you see a clay in the door, facing you, and you have no other way to get around it (or sometimes you do, but would have to increase travel time by a hundred fold and possibly march through enemy territory. So in this case you are stopped by a single claymore that is in the open due to the fact that unless someone runs into it ans triggers it there is no other way to destroy it.
As you can tell the complaints against the claymore stem fro mthe fact you can no longer destroy them with a gernade, which it this was put back in it would only serve to balance the game. Think about it, you can only destory a claymore that you see, so hidding a claymore is a must and beyond that claymores are not nerfed in any other way. So it is plain to see that is the right path to take.
Restore the ability to destroy clays with gernades and you balance clays out.
99% of the time you are killed by a claymore it is because:
A: You're going to mindnumbingly obvious spots likes the alleyway in Karkand or a hole in a fence
OR
B: You're just not watching where you're going.
Snipers can only have 2 claymores planted at a time so therefore it makes sense to put them in the most heavily traveled areas. If you're one of those people that rush into the hotel alleyway at Karkand as soon as the round starts, you're just begging to be killed.
Ways to avoid claymores:
A: ask yourself "if I was on the other team, would I put a claymore there?" If the answer is yes, DON'T go there. Find another way around. Better yet, attack the other flags that you know won't be covered in claymores.
B: let the dumbasses go first. Why die when that mindless idiot behind you is perfectly willing to sacrifice his own life for the team? Its better to get a flag assist for 1 point than to get killed because you were rushing for the 2 points from capping the flag first.
C: Teamwork! Get on VOIP or Teamspeak and let your friends know if you spot a claymore.
D: If there is absolutely not other way around it, such as the TV station on Sharqi, send in the kamikaze claymore disposal unit with a medic ready to revive.
A: You're going to mindnumbingly obvious spots likes the alleyway in Karkand or a hole in a fence
OR
B: You're just not watching where you're going.
Snipers can only have 2 claymores planted at a time so therefore it makes sense to put them in the most heavily traveled areas. If you're one of those people that rush into the hotel alleyway at Karkand as soon as the round starts, you're just begging to be killed.
Ways to avoid claymores:
A: ask yourself "if I was on the other team, would I put a claymore there?" If the answer is yes, DON'T go there. Find another way around. Better yet, attack the other flags that you know won't be covered in claymores.
B: let the dumbasses go first. Why die when that mindless idiot behind you is perfectly willing to sacrifice his own life for the team? Its better to get a flag assist for 1 point than to get killed because you were rushing for the 2 points from capping the flag first.
C: Teamwork! Get on VOIP or Teamspeak and let your friends know if you spot a claymore.
D: If there is absolutely not other way around it, such as the TV station on Sharqi, send in the kamikaze claymore disposal unit with a medic ready to revive.
Last edited by ~Solar~Fire~ (2006-05-25 15:56:22)
I swear you guys CRY whenever your precious weapons are nerfed for being overpowered
"WTF IM SUPPOSED TO FIGHT FROM AFAR WITH SNIPERS! WHY CAN'T I JUST SPAM MY NO PENALTY CLAYMORES"
Also your reasons are retarded
"Don't go where they could be in obvious spots"
Oh you mean like anywhere with a wall? I just put them against walls and someone dies.
Also its imposssible to tell if a server has Mine FF on or off, not to mention I don't think it affects AT mines, which DO need the FF off.
"WTF IM SUPPOSED TO FIGHT FROM AFAR WITH SNIPERS! WHY CAN'T I JUST SPAM MY NO PENALTY CLAYMORES"
Also your reasons are retarded
"Don't go where they could be in obvious spots"
Oh you mean like anywhere with a wall? I just put them against walls and someone dies.
Also its imposssible to tell if a server has Mine FF on or off, not to mention I don't think it affects AT mines, which DO need the FF off.
replace that with tank cannon, artillery strike, bomb, helicopter missle, sniper rifle, grenade....TheEvilCubivore wrote:
I just put them against walls and someone dies.
"If in doubt, ASK"TheEvilCubivore wrote:
Also its imposssible to tell if a server has Mine FF on or off, not to mention I don't think it affects AT mines, which DO need the FF off.
You have to accept the fact that you are going to get killed in the game. It happens to everyone. It may not be your direct actions that caused it and sometimes it may even be unavoidable, but it happens. Deal with it.
If i get blown up by a claymore then either I am a dumb ass for not watching my step, or the sniper planted it in a well hidden spot so and got the best of me. However, if I am watching my step, and i see a claymore planted out in the open, then I should have the ability to disable it and keep going, then the sniper is the dumb ass or not hiding it well. The one thing i really hate about claymores is when you are chasing a sniper on foot and he can just drop a claymore in front of you and your dead.
I am in favor of 2 thing:
1. Anything entering the radius of the claymore should detonate it (grenade, vehicle, rocket, supply crate, etc) Gunfire should not detonate it, anyone needing to detonate a claymore should have to waste a grenade, rocket, or something in order to do so.
2. Claymores should have a set up time of 3-4 seconds. This would eliminate a lot of spamming, a sniper will not want to stand in an open area for a 3-4 seconds per claymore and risk getting a bullet in the head. Face it, real world claymores can not just be dropped on the ground, they require time to set them up. This would not interfere with snipers using them for their intended purpose, you find a place to snipe, plant your claymores to cover your back and take up position.
That's my 2 cents!
I am in favor of 2 thing:
1. Anything entering the radius of the claymore should detonate it (grenade, vehicle, rocket, supply crate, etc) Gunfire should not detonate it, anyone needing to detonate a claymore should have to waste a grenade, rocket, or something in order to do so.
2. Claymores should have a set up time of 3-4 seconds. This would eliminate a lot of spamming, a sniper will not want to stand in an open area for a 3-4 seconds per claymore and risk getting a bullet in the head. Face it, real world claymores can not just be dropped on the ground, they require time to set them up. This would not interfere with snipers using them for their intended purpose, you find a place to snipe, plant your claymores to cover your back and take up position.
That's my 2 cents!
NO MORE NERFING,please.
I have a couple of suggestions for Clay tweaking. Most (if not all) are the same as other people have mentioned in the past, and also this thread, but rarely together.
Claymore # = 5 per sniper. This number is NOT unrealistic.
Claymore TK's count as suicides for your teammates, not kills to you.
However, if your clays contribute to x amount of teammates suicides, you are tempbanned for 'reckless endangerment' Read as stop placing/throwing your clays like a complete fucktard. Maybe an option for the 'suicidee' to alleviate Clay user of all blame would be helpful, certain deaths are unavoidable and acceptable.
Clays CAN be dislodged/scattered by grenades/rockets. Read as place the fuckers strategically. I don't suggest that explosives destroy them outright, but a 33% (for example) chance that there is a secondary detonation once dislodged, this could kill you, or your teammates, or anyone hiding behind/round the corner from the clays original position.
As other suggestions, the whole flinging AT mines and clays around always makes me laugh, so how about:
a: crouched placement being a requirement for mine placement.
b: as in games like CS, have a 'timer' so placement is not instant, this would cause mines to be used more strategically.
c: if crouch is not a requirement, have a 50% chance that when you throw your mine (at or clay), it lands in a position that renders it useless.
I find the whole 'waaaa waaaa waaaaa, you've got to nerf/remove clays entirely ea waaa waaa waaa' point of view to be endlessly whiny, if you don't want to have a chance of dying, play the Adventures of Barney. It's a team based game, either be a clay sweeper and deal with the fact you die in the hope your teammates get through, or run with a medic on your squad who knows to hang back far enough not to get caught in the blast.
But, I do find it amusing that for a game that people prefer due to it not being 'futuristic' or 'stupidly unrealistic' people will happily accept that throwing a box with 4 small legs at a flat surface means it lands on those thin little legs consistantly.
EDIT: as an added peeve, why do fucktards always whine that mines kill their teammates?
You accept that your bullets don't have little brains that say 'no, this is a friend, I must not hit them' easily.
Why do you expect Claymores and AT mines to have IFF systems to decide if they should detonate or not?
And please, spare me the 'well Fox, it's an accepted method of detonation for the sniper to manually detonate with a remote or wired device.....' Yeah, no shit, but unless you have a right click option to manually detonate the fuckers, you can't, can you? (without running in front of it)
Don't wanna risk killing your buddies with a mine? Don't lay them./Lay them sensibly and hope you aren't teamed with a mongoloid.
Claymore # = 5 per sniper. This number is NOT unrealistic.
Claymore TK's count as suicides for your teammates, not kills to you.
However, if your clays contribute to x amount of teammates suicides, you are tempbanned for 'reckless endangerment' Read as stop placing/throwing your clays like a complete fucktard. Maybe an option for the 'suicidee' to alleviate Clay user of all blame would be helpful, certain deaths are unavoidable and acceptable.
Clays CAN be dislodged/scattered by grenades/rockets. Read as place the fuckers strategically. I don't suggest that explosives destroy them outright, but a 33% (for example) chance that there is a secondary detonation once dislodged, this could kill you, or your teammates, or anyone hiding behind/round the corner from the clays original position.
As other suggestions, the whole flinging AT mines and clays around always makes me laugh, so how about:
a: crouched placement being a requirement for mine placement.
b: as in games like CS, have a 'timer' so placement is not instant, this would cause mines to be used more strategically.
c: if crouch is not a requirement, have a 50% chance that when you throw your mine (at or clay), it lands in a position that renders it useless.
I find the whole 'waaaa waaaa waaaaa, you've got to nerf/remove clays entirely ea waaa waaa waaa' point of view to be endlessly whiny, if you don't want to have a chance of dying, play the Adventures of Barney. It's a team based game, either be a clay sweeper and deal with the fact you die in the hope your teammates get through, or run with a medic on your squad who knows to hang back far enough not to get caught in the blast.
But, I do find it amusing that for a game that people prefer due to it not being 'futuristic' or 'stupidly unrealistic' people will happily accept that throwing a box with 4 small legs at a flat surface means it lands on those thin little legs consistantly.
EDIT: as an added peeve, why do fucktards always whine that mines kill their teammates?
You accept that your bullets don't have little brains that say 'no, this is a friend, I must not hit them' easily.
Why do you expect Claymores and AT mines to have IFF systems to decide if they should detonate or not?
And please, spare me the 'well Fox, it's an accepted method of detonation for the sniper to manually detonate with a remote or wired device.....' Yeah, no shit, but unless you have a right click option to manually detonate the fuckers, you can't, can you? (without running in front of it)
Don't wanna risk killing your buddies with a mine? Don't lay them./Lay them sensibly and hope you aren't teamed with a mongoloid.
Last edited by Foxhoundmgw (2006-05-26 01:56:59)
I always thought nades should destroy claymores.
the options u have are very vague, alot of people i see use claymores tactically, not "noobish" way. If a player can use the claymore with tactics, then he should be able to do what he wants. if a player just chucks a claymore for the sake of it, thats just stupid
Plastic case, metal balls, c4. Yeah, Anything explosive or particularly 'melty' should detonate/destroy/cookoff and then destroy it. But, for the sake of those being faced with 'nerf nerf nerf' by the people who will still bitch when we are down to beating each other with sticks, if yours has thorns on, dislodge/scatter is effective enough I'd suggest.fas.org wrote:
The M18 antipersonnel mine comes in two versions--with or without a peep-sight; otherwise, both versions are identical. The mine is a curved, rectangular, plastic case and contains a layer of composition C3 explosive. It has a fragmentation face of rectangular steel fragments.
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- Nerf the f'ing claymores!!!!