this guy hereAussieReaper wrote:
Not like Jay.
He took government welfare and made a man of himself. Now he can argue that people on welfare are lazy.
yay
yay
I guess we're circling back around to where everyone spends their time making attacks on me again. The mob is almost all here. Guess I should stop speaking the truth and instead turn to flattery. A bunch of people too stupid to actually debate me, instead out to lynch me. I don't even know why I bother.
Last edited by Jay (2012-12-29 19:23:53)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Why didn't you just take a loan to pay for college?Jay wrote:
I took government welfare? News to me. Even if I had, did I improve myself when I had the chance or did I take the easy route out in life? Was it the easy path to sacrifice almost five years of my life doing what I hated?
Fuck Israel
Because I wasn't sure what I wanted to study yet and didn't want to carry a bunch of debt needlessly. I'm debt averse. I don't even have a credit card. As it was, I wasted two years on a business degree after I got out of the military before I decided that engineering was the right path for me. All told I spent six years in college (one year before I joined the army studying computer science) That's a lot of debt to carry around with you. Anyway, yes, I could've worked other jobs while I was in school but I didn't feel like I had any skills to offer that would've given me an opportunity outside of minimum wage. Whatever, what's done is done and I have no regrets.Dilbert_X wrote:
Why didn't you just take a loan to pay for college?Jay wrote:
I took government welfare? News to me. Even if I had, did I improve myself when I had the chance or did I take the easy route out in life? Was it the easy path to sacrifice almost five years of my life doing what I hated?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Sounds like pure laziness to me. Just a leech on society.Jay wrote:
Anyway, yes, I could've worked other jobs while I was in school but I didn't feel like I had any skills to offer that would've given me an opportunity outside of minimum wage.
If you have skills and are marketable you will always have a job.
Yawn. Yes, it's pure laziness to serve five years in the military and spend a year in Baghdad fighting a war you didn't believe in. It's laziness to join the military in order to use it for the training it offered. There are probably quite a few ways to get by in life that are lazy, serving in the military isn't one of them. Try again reddit warrior.AussieReaper wrote:
Sounds like pure laziness to me. Just a leech on society.Jay wrote:
Anyway, yes, I could've worked other jobs while I was in school but I didn't feel like I had any skills to offer that would've given me an opportunity outside of minimum wage.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
If you're willing to hustle, yes. I could've gone into construction if I wanted to. I could've sold cars. I could've done a lot of things. It just takes courage to put yourself out there and try until you succeed. What holds most people back is fear. Fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear of not being good enough. I had the courage to try to change my stars. What are you doing besides taking the easy path in life?Macbeth wrote:
If you have skills and are marketable you will always have a job.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I'm 22 and am finishing school what am I supposed to be doing that will make me a true life success story like you jay? Drive a jeep around in the sand for a few years?
You took the easy path through college and now I expect you to again take the easy path and try to become a professor. Never to touch the real world, never to have anything to worry about once you attain tenure. It's the easy path to a lazy lifestyle. I'm sure uzi will chime in with all the research expectations and all the publishing requirements yadda yadda yadda but people do the same shit in the real world, except they will be fired for generating trash or not producing. Whatever.Macbeth wrote:
I'm 22 and am finishing school what am I supposed to be doing that will make me a true life success story like you jay? Drive a jeep around in the sand for a few years?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Called it.Macbeth wrote:
this guy hereAussieReaper wrote:
Not like Jay.
He took government welfare and made a man of himself. Now he can argue that people on welfare are lazy.
yay
Well, you didn't sign up with the intention of fighting because yu loved your country, and taking a govt job with a ton of benefits laid on doesn't exactly fit with your supposed free-market self-reliant philosophy.Jay wrote:
Yawn. Yes, it's pure laziness to serve five years in the military and spend a year in Baghdad fighting a war you didn't believe in. It's laziness to join the military in order to use it for the training it offered. There are probably quite a few ways to get by in life that are lazy, serving in the military isn't one of them. Try again reddit warrior.
I was lucky enough to know what I wanted to do and live in a society which put me through college for 'free' ie paid through taxation and available to all.
Fuck Israel
In a country that has debt at 1000% of GDP. Sustainable.Dilbert_X wrote:
Well, you didn't sign up with the intention of fighting because yu loved your country, and taking a govt job with a ton of benefits laid on doesn't exactly fit with your supposed free-market self-reliant philosophy.Jay wrote:
Yawn. Yes, it's pure laziness to serve five years in the military and spend a year in Baghdad fighting a war you didn't believe in. It's laziness to join the military in order to use it for the training it offered. There are probably quite a few ways to get by in life that are lazy, serving in the military isn't one of them. Try again reddit warrior.
I was lucky enough to know what I wanted to do and live in a society which put me through college for 'free' ie paid through taxation and available to all.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
When you say 1000% I guess you mean 87%, which is lower than America at 106%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … ublic_debt
I guess funding college through military service isn't so efficient?
And when I did my degree debt was ~30% of GDP and only the top 10% of students were funded through uni - so there.
That was an entirely sustainable system - I easily repaid my tuition through taxes, just as you claim to have done by running around polishing stuff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … ublic_debt
I guess funding college through military service isn't so efficient?
And when I did my degree debt was ~30% of GDP and only the top 10% of students were funded through uni - so there.
That was an entirely sustainable system - I easily repaid my tuition through taxes, just as you claim to have done by running around polishing stuff
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-12-29 20:58:50)
Fuck Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … ernal_debt
External debt is far more important than internal debt.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
Ahh, it's only at 508%, what I had remembered was Ireland. Still impressive, and unsustainable.
External debt is far more important than internal debt.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
Ahh, it's only at 508%, what I had remembered was Ireland. Still impressive, and unsustainable.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
So what?
So a higher proportion of national debt in Britain is held abroad than it is in other countries. Big deal.
According to your theory doing trade with foreign countries was a good thing, I thought.
So in other words without other information its a meaningless figure, well done.
In terms of total debt/GDP America is in a worse situation than the UK - despite the NHS and student funding.
So a higher proportion of national debt in Britain is held abroad than it is in other countries. Big deal.
According to your theory doing trade with foreign countries was a good thing, I thought.
For example Luxembourg has an on-paper external debt of 3400% of GDP, and yet is a net creditor.Note that while a country may have a relatively large external debt (either in absolute or per capita terms), it could be a "net international creditor" if its external debt is less than the total of the external debt of other countries held by it. For example, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and China are net international creditors.
So in other words without other information its a meaningless figure, well done.
In terms of total debt/GDP America is in a worse situation than the UK - despite the NHS and student funding.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-12-29 21:07:08)
Fuck Israel
I'd say it's comparable. Our own debt is certainly unsustainable. I've never argued that it was. Watching the fiscal cliff fiasco play out would be good entertainment if the consequences weren't so dire down the road when all of these people are out of office. They'll strike a deal, pretend the problem is solved, and go back to spending money on pet projects, buying votes, and printing money just as they've done for the past hundred years. None of the countries that have adopted socialism are on a sustainable course except for the ones that have outsized national resources compared to their population size that they are able to export. In a way, it's sort of funny that socialism only works in countries with low population densities when it was envisioned to be the opposite.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
That's awfully rich considering you just got done calling me a jackass.Jay wrote:
I guess we're circling back around to where everyone spends their time making attacks on me again. The mob is almost all here. Guess I should stop speaking the truth and instead turn to flattery. A bunch of people too stupid to actually debate me, instead out to lynch me. I don't even know why I bother.
liberal gang of faggots
Debt/GDP is worth comparing, external debt/GDP is fairly meaningless.Jay wrote:
I'd say it's comparable. Our own debt is certainly unsustainable. I've never argued that it was. Watching the fiscal cliff fiasco play out would be good entertainment if the consequences weren't so dire down the road when all of these people are out of office. They'll strike a deal, pretend the problem is solved, and go back to spending money on pet projects, buying votes, and printing money just as they've done for the past hundred years. None of the countries that have adopted socialism are on a sustainable course except for the ones that have outsized national resources compared to their population size that they are able to export. In a way, it's sort of funny that socialism only works in countries with low population densities when it was envisioned to be the opposite.
And its nothing particular to do with socialism - Russian debt/GDP is 1/10th of capitalist America's, as far as I can see there isn't that much correlation between socialism and debt/GDP.
None of the countries that have adopted socialism capitalism are on a sustainable course except for the ones that have outsized national resources compared to their population size <- works both ways.
Its more about responsible government, which is in short supply these days.
Claiming socialism, universal healthcare, state funded tertiary education or any other pet hate copy-pastad from ronpaulsenileandbutthurt.com or any other tea-party blog are the root cause of state financial collapse is just lazy.
Over-borrowing and hoping to inflate yourself into the future doesn't work for any ideology, left or right.
Fuck Israel
academia is one of the hardest professions to get into. takes as many years training as medicine, yet with nowhere near as lucrative a salary or as many job places available. anything but the golden-ticket scholarship kids and there's no point you even trying. you'll float around in the post-doc pool on 6-month to 2-year placements for a decade or so, constantly moving around, not making much money, never with any job security. 'tenure' is for professors, and doesn't come until your late 30's or early 40's (at least), and is only for the obvious top-dogs. there are many, many middling PhD students that should realistically never be in academia, because the tacit acknowledgement is that, beyond their doctoral research (and whatever putative intrinsic merit that may have), they will never find a job in the institution/wider establishment. that's ok for most average or mediocre science researchers, where there is a booming private industry and plenty of cash to support their activity, but for a humanities-or-otherwise student, academia without superlative talent is a sure-fire way to fuck up your life and become laden with a decade of debt and lost time. 'easiest path' through life? either you're gifted in your field, in which case it's a life of extremely competitive fighting for job placements (particularly at top/worthy institutions), more competitive and network-intensive than even law, or it's a life with a 6-year qualification that was a waste of your time (and immense debt, in many cases). "easiest path through life"? a confusing statement, to say the least.Jay wrote:
You took the easy path through college and now I expect you to again take the easy path and try to become a professor. Never to touch the real world, never to have anything to worry about once you attain tenure. It's the easy path to a lazy lifestyle. I'm sure uzi will chime in with all the research expectations and all the publishing requirements yadda yadda yadda but people do the same shit in the real world, except they will be fired for generating trash or not producing. Whatever.Macbeth wrote:
I'm 22 and am finishing school what am I supposed to be doing that will make me a true life success story like you jay? Drive a jeep around in the sand for a few years?
it's also weird how you rhetorically twist going into the army to get everything paid for you as "pushing yourself out" and "eking out the hardest path". no. you just said yourself that you're too ill-suited or too much of a pussy to graft through a degree whilst supporting yourself financially (i.e. through employment). so you got on the government-welfare gravytrain, taking pure advantage and fighting in a war you didn't believe in - ethically bankrupt, purely mercenary - so that you'd have the easiest time financially in college. most people take 20 years of employment to pay off their student debts. you enrolled as a pog to reap the rewards of a conflict of misery you didn't even believe in, principally. all the while touting all that ayn rand objectivist bullshit to make yourself feel better. i'd say the student flipping one or two part-time jobs whilst also studying for their finals is taking a much tougher path than the guy that spent the better part of a decade, mostly on other people's dime, trying to 'find his path' in life. you may be one of the first from your family to go to university, jay, but you're not quite a fuckin' mensch. you are deluded.
Last edited by aynrandroolz (2012-12-30 07:23:47)
Uzique, you know where many of those mediocre PhD candidates go?
Tenured professors at crappy colleges, teaching core curriculum classes (rather, having TA's teach the class while they sleep in their office).
You're right in your assessment of the difference between being mediocre in a field (Academia, in your example), and being an All-Star top performer.
You're wrong in your assessment of the military, for exactly the same reason you're right in the paragraph above.
Military, you can be a pogue private doing just enough to barely get by for 4 years - or you can be a stand-out performer, top of your field all-star.
I know SF medic sergeants with at least as much education as civilian medical doctors, and infinitely more real-world trauma expertise.
Ever seen a SF medic run a full-service hospital in the middle of a shithole warzone that the Red Cross is afraid to go to?
Patch up a kid that picked up an IED in the morning, help a woman give birth in the afternoon, patch up some local Federales hit by narco-gangs in the evening...
(That was a paraphrase of a section of that particular SF medic's award letter.)
But, y'know, we're just the evil infidel invader asshole mercenaries.
We never do any good guy work in places like Kosovo, Korea, Kurdistan, South America, or Afghanistan.
All about swingin' that big 'Murrican dick, $3.00/gallon gasoline for our SUVs, and shoving Jesus' own baked McApple Pie down the rest of the world's throat.
Nope -
never run any SF field hospitals in South America,
never set up emergency food aid in Somalia,
never do any disaster relief anywhere after any floods or earthquakes,
never quietly go kick the shit out of narco-trafficers (ask Pablo Escobar),
never get between warring factions so the UN can dither-dick and putter about diplomatic solutions for years on end.
Uzique, you want to call Jay a "4 and out" pogue private, that's between you two.
You want to paint everyone in the military as being on the "government-welfare gravytrain, [...]ethically bankrupt, purely mercenary", you're wrong.
That's about like saying everyone in Academia is "Hiding from the real world" or "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach".
A bunch of Academics from CERN just discovered the Higgs Boson, and (in science and engineering) there is a revolving door between Academia and cutting edge research in commercial industry (Lockheed, Intel, etc)
Edit: Or was it bobble head Jesus swingin' on our SUV's dash, $3.00 McApple Pies, and shovin' 'Murrican dick down the rest of the world's throat?
Tenured professors at crappy colleges, teaching core curriculum classes (rather, having TA's teach the class while they sleep in their office).
You're right in your assessment of the difference between being mediocre in a field (Academia, in your example), and being an All-Star top performer.
You're wrong in your assessment of the military, for exactly the same reason you're right in the paragraph above.
Military, you can be a pogue private doing just enough to barely get by for 4 years - or you can be a stand-out performer, top of your field all-star.
I know SF medic sergeants with at least as much education as civilian medical doctors, and infinitely more real-world trauma expertise.
Ever seen a SF medic run a full-service hospital in the middle of a shithole warzone that the Red Cross is afraid to go to?
Patch up a kid that picked up an IED in the morning, help a woman give birth in the afternoon, patch up some local Federales hit by narco-gangs in the evening...
(That was a paraphrase of a section of that particular SF medic's award letter.)
But, y'know, we're just the evil infidel invader asshole mercenaries.
We never do any good guy work in places like Kosovo, Korea, Kurdistan, South America, or Afghanistan.
All about swingin' that big 'Murrican dick, $3.00/gallon gasoline for our SUVs, and shoving Jesus' own baked McApple Pie down the rest of the world's throat.
Nope -
never run any SF field hospitals in South America,
never set up emergency food aid in Somalia,
never do any disaster relief anywhere after any floods or earthquakes,
never quietly go kick the shit out of narco-trafficers (ask Pablo Escobar),
never get between warring factions so the UN can dither-dick and putter about diplomatic solutions for years on end.
Uzique, you want to call Jay a "4 and out" pogue private, that's between you two.
You want to paint everyone in the military as being on the "government-welfare gravytrain, [...]ethically bankrupt, purely mercenary", you're wrong.
That's about like saying everyone in Academia is "Hiding from the real world" or "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach".
A bunch of Academics from CERN just discovered the Higgs Boson, and (in science and engineering) there is a revolving door between Academia and cutting edge research in commercial industry (Lockheed, Intel, etc)
Edit: Or was it bobble head Jesus swingin' on our SUV's dash, $3.00 McApple Pies, and shovin' 'Murrican dick down the rest of the world's throat?
Last edited by rdx-fx (2012-12-30 08:11:08)
why are you picking on my comments which are specifically directed at jay? he said he joined up for no other reason than the benefits. he didn't believe in the war. he didn't want to fight the war. he wanted the government credit and college help. where am i insulting american servicemen? nowhere. i'm talking about jay specifically. saying academia is the "easy path" because of "instant tenure" is like saying "engineering degrees are the easy path to running your own consultancy". tenureship is the ENDPOINT of the career. it's far from an "easy path" to get there.
and america probably has too many colleges with too many failed professors, sure. but that's specific to your country and its rampant over-emphasis on college education as a prerequisite for adult life. you create the jobs for these useless academics by having colleges with 80%+ acceptance rates. why even keep them open?
and america probably has too many colleges with too many failed professors, sure. but that's specific to your country and its rampant over-emphasis on college education as a prerequisite for adult life. you create the jobs for these useless academics by having colleges with 80%+ acceptance rates. why even keep them open?
Filling in detail where you seemed to be painting background with an overwide brush.aynrandroolz wrote:
why are you picking on my comments which are specifically directed at jay?
You and Jay want to go a few more rounds, I'm not going to step into that.
I enlisted in September, 2000, two days less than one year prior to 9/11 occurring. I joined for many reasons, I was aimless and without a trade and had a girlfriend that I had dated for four years that I thought I might marry one day. I was depressed because I was stuck at home commuting to college via bus while my friends were all away at four year colleges. If any job had presented an offer to pay for four years of college I would've taken it. It just so happened that the military was offering such a deal. I'd really like to know how working a low paying job with the threat of danger constantly hanging over your head is somehow akin to being on the welfare gravytrain. Actually, no I don't. I'll leave you with this quote instead:aynrandroolz wrote:
it's also weird how you rhetorically twist going into the army to get everything paid for you as "pushing yourself out" and "eking out the hardest path". no. you just said yourself that you're too ill-suited or too much of a pussy to graft through a degree whilst supporting yourself financially (i.e. through employment). so you got on the government-welfare gravytrain, taking pure advantage and fighting in a war you didn't believe in - ethically bankrupt, purely mercenary - so that you'd have the easiest time financially in college. most people take 20 years of employment to pay off their student debts. you enrolled as a pog to reap the rewards of a conflict of misery you didn't even believe in, principally. all the while touting all that ayn rand objectivist bullshit to make yourself feel better. i'd say the student flipping one or two part-time jobs whilst also studying for their finals is taking a much tougher path than the guy that spent the better part of a decade, mostly on other people's dime, trying to 'find his path' in life. you may be one of the first from your family to go to university, jay, but you're not quite a fuckin' mensch. you are deluded.
"Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been at sea."
-Dr. Samuel Johnson
I remind myself of that quote every time one of the cowards on this forum that never served likens military service to welfare.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat