This shooting and the Ohio shooting were both done with stolen weapons. Gun safes and trigger locks were have stopped these shootings without stomping all over the 2nd amendment. Gun people still hate both of those though.
We have what? Twenty times your population, ergo I would expect these types of things to happen twenty times as often. We have something like 200,000,000 guns in the US. How do you propose they be taken out of the system?Spark wrote:
Again, this would work if I didn't see actual solutions in progress. Give me some actual evidence to demonstrate that the regimes in place do not have effect, otherwise I'll believe you. Otherwise this is just ideological talking points.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Yes, because they are A) expensive, and B) get in the way of people defending their homes in case of a break-in. Not very convenient to fumble with a trigger lock or to go into a safe when your life is in danger.Macbeth wrote:
This shooting and the Ohio shooting were both done with stolen weapons. Gun safes and trigger locks were have stopped these shootings without stomping all over the 2nd amendment. Gun people still hate both of those though.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Maybe it's the cheap and reliable part that's the problem.Extra Medium wrote:
It strikes true so you call me a troll because you have no counter to my argument. You honestly know in your heart most of the morons on this site that constantly say how horrible guns are would own several given that firearms were as cheap and readily available in their neck of the woods. YOU KNOW THEY WOULD, don't even shit me and say they wouldn't. We're on a website built upon a game built upon GUNS for fucks sake.Pochsy wrote:
This solidifies it. The whole account is a troll. Excellent feigned anger. Needs to rely a little less on such common arguments given your post history. Know your audience.Extra Medium wrote:
I love how all the foreigners look down on America from their supposed moral high horses, but if they had as easy of access to guns as we do they would all be gun owners.
7/10.
The people saying "god didn't stop it because god isn't allowed in schools" are arseholes. The stuff they're saying is just as bad as westboro baptist.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/80835 … ool-attack
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/80835 … ool-attack
Clearly, we need to ban knives.A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at schools and kindergartens.
...
What the fuck were they waiting for, a zombie apocalypse? What kind of situation do you expect to find yourself in to feel the need to use something like this?Jay wrote:
get in the way of people defending their homes in case of a break-in.
(note: this or something similar was widely reported as the gun the gunman used, if not then nvm)
I understand that you can't just take guns away from your citizens when they clearly don't trust their police force to protect them, but I'm sorry, I really don't buy the argument that an assault rifle like that is for 'self defence' and not gun-fetishism.
And re: Norway - Yeah, one example. How many gun-related deaths are there in America?
It seems perfectly logical to me that a higher proliferation of fire arms leads to a higher level of gun-related deaths and more deaths overall. Just look at yourself and Latin America in general.
I'm not saying guns always equals more crime, but it makes crime more deadly.
No one died in his stabbing spree. 30 died in the shooting. Pretty good argument for gun control actually.BVC wrote:
The people saying "god didn't stop it because god isn't allowed in schools" are arseholes. The stuff they're saying is just as bad as westboro baptist.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/80835 … ool-attackClearly, we need to ban knives.A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at schools and kindergartens.
...
BF2s is being moronic and not letting me post properly until now, but I'll just say that you've moved the goalposts here.Jay wrote:
We have what? Twenty times your population, ergo I would expect these types of things to happen twenty times as often. We have something like 200,000,000 guns in the US. How do you propose they be taken out of the system?Spark wrote:
Again, this would work if I didn't see actual solutions in progress. Give me some actual evidence to demonstrate that the regimes in place do not have effect, otherwise I'll believe you. Otherwise this is just ideological talking points.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Jay wrote:
We have what? Twenty times your population, ergo I would expect these types of things to happen twenty times as often. We have something like 200,000,000 guns in the US. How do you propose they be taken out of the system?Spark wrote:
Again, this would work if I didn't see actual solutions in progress. Give me some actual evidence to demonstrate that the regimes in place do not have effect, otherwise I'll believe you. Otherwise this is just ideological talking points.
Is your suggestion to do nothing?Dilbert_X wrote:
So whats your suggestion?
Let the free-market sort it out over a few centuries?
Sit back and do nothing until it directly affects you?
Because you have no suggestions or because doing nothing is the Libertarian solution to everything?
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-12-15 04:21:44)
Fuck Israel
Yes, my suggestion is to do nothing. So is yours apparently since you just deflected.Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
We have what? Twenty times your population, ergo I would expect these types of things to happen twenty times as often. We have something like 200,000,000 guns in the US. How do you propose they be taken out of the system?Spark wrote:
Again, this would work if I didn't see actual solutions in progress. Give me some actual evidence to demonstrate that the regimes in place do not have effect, otherwise I'll believe you. Otherwise this is just ideological talking points.Is your suggestion to do nothing?Dilbert_X wrote:
So whats your suggestion?
Let the free-market sort it out over a few centuries?
Sit back and do nothing until it directly affects you?
Because you have no suggestions or because doing nothing is the Libertarian solution to everything?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
and I'm betting you a lot of those 30 deaths (assuming you mean homicides and not accidental discharging as well) are crime-related. what shocks people about this is 1) the scale and timeframe. 20 kids killed in a matter of minutes. and 2) the senselessness of it. This wasn't a couple of gangbangers shooting over disputed turf, this wasn't a jilted lover shooting his wife's other gentleman, this wasn't even a 7-Eleven robbery gone bad. It was just a madman taking innocent lives for no reason.Macbeth wrote:
There are 30ish gun deaths in the U.S. every day. Almost all of them among the poor. No one cares.
30 people died today in one not poor place. International headlines.
He's pro gun control because he can't buy a gun legallyHurricane2k9 wrote:
and I'm betting you a lot of those 30 deaths (assuming you mean homicides and not accidental discharging as well) are crime-related. what shocks people about this is 1) the scale and timeframe. 20 kids killed in a matter of minutes. and 2) the senselessness of it. This wasn't a couple of gangbangers shooting over disputed turf, this wasn't a jilted lover shooting his wife's other gentleman, this wasn't even a 7-Eleven robbery gone bad. It was just a madman taking innocent lives for no reason.Macbeth wrote:
There are 30ish gun deaths in the U.S. every day. Almost all of them among the poor. No one cares.
30 people died today in one not poor place. International headlines.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Gun laws didn't stop Timothy McVeigh from killing 170 people. He just went straight for the jugular and used a car bomb.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
and I'm betting you a lot of those 30 deaths (assuming you mean homicides and not accidental discharging as well) are crime-related. what shocks people about this is 1) the scale and timeframe. 20 kids killed in a matter of minutes. and 2) the senselessness of it. This wasn't a couple of gangbangers shooting over disputed turf, this wasn't a jilted lover shooting his wife's other gentleman, this wasn't even a 7-Eleven robbery gone bad. It was just a madman taking innocent lives for no reason.Macbeth wrote:
There are 30ish gun deaths in the U.S. every day. Almost all of them among the poor. No one cares.
30 people died today in one not poor place. International headlines.
i literally said nothing about gun laws in that post, I was addressing his whole "oh it was a bunch of rich kids that's why people care" BSCybargs wrote:
Gun laws didn't stop Timothy McVeigh from killing 170 people. He just went straight for the jugular and used a car bomb.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
and I'm betting you a lot of those 30 deaths (assuming you mean homicides and not accidental discharging as well) are crime-related. what shocks people about this is 1) the scale and timeframe. 20 kids killed in a matter of minutes. and 2) the senselessness of it. This wasn't a couple of gangbangers shooting over disputed turf, this wasn't a jilted lover shooting his wife's other gentleman, this wasn't even a 7-Eleven robbery gone bad. It was just a madman taking innocent lives for no reason.Macbeth wrote:
There are 30ish gun deaths in the U.S. every day. Almost all of them among the poor. No one cares.
30 people died today in one not poor place. International headlines.
I don't think banning guns would be possible in the US. It works well in European countries because they haven't really had the gun culture of the US nor have they had the massive amount of weapons floating around that the US has. Congress could pass an amendment that basically cancels the 2nd Amendment tomorrow but it wouldn't do much because there would still be a shit ton of firearms on the now-black market.
If we really want to reduce gun violence in the US, we have to attack ALL of the factors that are part of it. It's easy to pick out the weapon and say "there's the problem!" but truth be told it goes beyond that. I think it was Romney who said that single-parent homes are a bigger contributor to gun violence than lack of gun control. Poorly-worded statement (and kinda bullshit, I know lots of kids raised by single parents who are fine folks) but I get what he was saying. The problem is it's a lot harder to point the finger at poverty or education.
Bullshit a good chunk of those deaths are children and innocent people. At least once a week an innocent child gets killed in a NYC shooting by accident. People don't care because it doesn't happen in Manhattan but instead in Harlem. Take 'my father abandoned me' Jay for instance. When Drunkface asked him about all the gun violence among blacks he pretty much wrote it off because "I don't go into their neighborhoods and they don't come into mine". And if your argument relies on the concentration of violence then I will point you to the fact that a few months back 50 people were shot in one weekend in Chicago. Neverheard about that on CNN. But when a bunch of college kids get shot, or a bunch of people going to see Batman, or kids in school suddenly everyone freaks out about how terrible gun violence is because suddenly the whole "it could have been me " kicks in. No one really gives a shit about gun deaths they just care about themselves. If mass murders stopped but the rate of inner city violence tripled no one would complain about gun violence.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
and I'm betting you a lot of those 30 deaths (assuming you mean homicides and not accidental discharging as well) are crime-related. what shocks people about this is 1) the scale and timeframe. 20 kids killed in a matter of minutes. and 2) the senselessness of it. This wasn't a couple of gangbangers shooting over disputed turf, this wasn't a jilted lover shooting his wife's other gentleman, this wasn't even a 7-Eleven robbery gone bad. It was just a madman taking innocent lives for no reason.Macbeth wrote:
There are 30ish gun deaths in the U.S. every day. Almost all of them among the poor. No one cares.
30 people died today in one not poor place. International headlines.
So I am not going to be a part of any of it. I am not going to treat mass shootings any differently than a bad liquor store robbery. If that makes me callous then fine. At least I rather be callous than a hypocrite.
Name one instance of a truck bombing in the U.S. in the last hundred years other Oklahoma city. I can name mass shootings all day. Bombs kill more people but mass shootings happen monthly while bombings never happen. Most be something about how hard on is to do over the other.Cybargs wrote:
Gun laws didn't stop Timothy McVeigh from killing 170 people. He just went straight for the jugular and used a car bomb.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
and I'm betting you a lot of those 30 deaths (assuming you mean homicides and not accidental discharging as well) are crime-related. what shocks people about this is 1) the scale and timeframe. 20 kids killed in a matter of minutes. and 2) the senselessness of it. This wasn't a couple of gangbangers shooting over disputed turf, this wasn't a jilted lover shooting his wife's other gentleman, this wasn't even a 7-Eleven robbery gone bad. It was just a madman taking innocent lives for no reason.Macbeth wrote:
There are 30ish gun deaths in the U.S. every day. Almost all of them among the poor. No one cares.
30 people died today in one not poor place. International headlines.
Macbeth, all you've done is bitch in this thread without offering up a single viable solution.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth wrote:
This shooting and the Ohio shooting were both done with stolen weapons. Gun safes and trigger locks were have stopped these shootings without stomping all over the 2nd amendment. Gun people still hate both of those though.
Are you going to have cops inspect everyones home to make sure they have a safe or a trigger lock? Are you going to have those cops check in every day to make sure the weapons are secure?
Last edited by Jay (2012-12-15 12:38:18)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Prosecute people if their guns were used in crimes. If the proper precautions are in place there shouldn't be any stolen guns used in killings. That is enough stick to make sure people start using safes and locks.
I could own a gun but it is not worth the hassle and I don't need it.
Prove that the proper precautions weren't taken. Car is stolen, secured gun in the glove box, are you going to charge them with a crime for having their car stolen? What if a house is robbed and a gun with a trigger lock was stolen? Are you going to charge them with a crime too? Trigger locks can be broken open, just like any other lock, given enough time.Macbeth wrote:
Prosecute people if their guns were used in crimes. If the proper precautions are in place there shouldn't be any stolen guns used in killings. That is enough stick to make sure people start using safes and locks.
Of course, we're only talking about registered weapons here, of which only a fraction currently in the system actually are. So no, your idea wouldn't really do anything besides annoy owners and force them to go to court to prove their innocence.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I don't believe in concealed carry so they shouldn't have a gun in their glove box.
How did they get to the gun if it was in a safe?
The majority of guns are registered.
Yawnface
How did they get to the gun if it was in a safe?
The majority of guns are registered.
Yawnface
Can they not regulate the manufacturers themselves? Why have the police picking up the scraps when you can just go right to the source.
???