The money being put into the hands of the poor isn't "new." They aren't printing new money just so they can give it to the poor. The money is just money that would be spent on luxury goods by those who can afford to spare the money. If anything there will be an increase in consumption from the increase in funds available to the lower classes, which serves to expand the economy. I really don't see where the inflation comes from...Jay wrote:
Nope. Government transfers actually increase poverty.Narupug wrote:
You can reduce poverty, probably can't eliminate it, but you can certainly reduce it. Most government transfer payments do that to some extent. If we didn't have unemployment benefits or social security, I think most people would agree more people would be in poverty.Jay wrote:
That's nice, now explain to the class how the government can, in any way shape or form, pull people out of poverty. Hint: it can't.
Say you have a spread of ten workers making different wages from 1 to 10 coins per hour. The people at the very bottom, their life sucks. They barely make enough money to pay their rent and they more than likely have to work multiple jobs just to get by. The people above them making 2 coins per hour have life slightly better. Life is still hard but they're making twice what the people on the bottom do per hour so perhaps they only have to work one job to scrape by. Well, some do-gooder comes along, completely disconnected from reality but sensing an injustice, and they decide to set the poverty line at anything income below 2 coins per hour. They raise the minimum wage to 2 coins per hour and shower those below with money in order to alleviate their suffering. Awesome, right? Well, now that you've dumped a bunch of new money into the hands of people that were formerly working their ass off, they spend it. This in turn causes prices to rise, rent to rise etc. Merchants realize they can charge more money now for products than they used to because there is more money available. Your poverty line now has to move because not only are the people who formerly made only 1 coin per hour poor and suffering again, you've added the guy that was making 2 coins per hour to the rolls of the poor. The cycle repeats when you move the bar up to 3 coins per hour. Wealth transfers do nothing but cause inflation. They don't make peoples lives better.
And yes, that goes for PELL grants too. They're the primary driver in the skyrocketing cost of college educations today. Every time the government raises the subsidy, colleges raise their tuition.
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Because when you have more people competing for the same goods, prices go up. For example, if people can suddenly afford to move out of the projects, housing in their price range will become scarcer and prices will rise. When people have more money, merchants raise prices because they can. It balances supply and demand, even if it's not a concious decision.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
People living on the poverty line aren't going out and buying houses, that's the point. They tend to spend everything they have from paycheck to paycheck (same for welfare recipients). What made the GFC worse was mega rich people and corporations putting their vast capital into savings and not back into the economy. Population growth increases house prices much more so than poor people not being quite so poor, lol.
I was talking about rent, not home prices. And mega rich people do not park their money in a vault, they park it in a bank account or an investment portfolio. That money is lent out if in a bank, or funds things like corporate expansion if it's in a portfolio. The money moves around constantly. It does not sit around collecting dust. If the money actually left the market and sat in a vault it would cause deflation, not inflation.Jaekus wrote:
People living on the poverty line aren't going out and buying houses, that's the point. They tend to spend everything they have from paycheck to paycheck (same for welfare recipients). What made the GFC worse was mega rich people and corporations putting their vast capital into savings and not back into the economy. Population growth increases house prices much more so than poor people not being quite so poor, lol.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
The NHS has worked fine for half a century, its not the reason the UK is in the shit. Its still more cost effective than private insurance - which people can buy too and still have cheaper and better healthcare than the US.Jay wrote:
Jenspm wrote:
I pointed out in the chat thread that it would require a tripling of current income tax rates to balance the budget right now, and that budget increases every year as more and more people get enrolled in programs like food stamps, more old people retire, etc. Hell, look at the country you live in. The NHS by itself had the countries budget on the ropes before the recession. The bank bailouts just sped up the process.
Tax is too low and spending is to high, especially social spending, just like 'Murica.
Thats the kind of govt an education system which spits out too many unproductive hipsters gives you.
Fuck Israel
blaming europe's troubles on the nhs is new, i must admit
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Mindset on education vs omg poverty is causing low test scores!.Macbeth wrote:
I do not understand the point of this post.Cybargs wrote:
1 in 8 Australians live in poverty too. Yet it's the second best place to be born in the world. You see the issue with those numbers?Macbeth wrote:
The problem with our schools is the amount of poverty we have. 25% of American children live in poverty.
How is it that dirt poor vietnamese, chinese, indian, bangladeshi and other immigrants can do MUCH better than everyone else despite being in the same social class? It's the value of education their parents hold. You change parenting attitude towards education, you'll see higher test scores.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_poverty
???
Yellow power or something?
I used Asian immigrants because they're the stereotype of "succesful hardworking immigrants."
African migrants are exactly the same as Asian immigrants when it comes to education: that it's fucking important if you want to have a good life.
What part of culture of poverty don't you understand?
Last edited by Macbeth (2012-12-05 05:38:33)
BS. The millions of illegals we have disprove that BS culture of poverty notion. They (South Americans) come here, work their asses off, and send money home so there families can have a better life. Unlike the lazy ass shits here who'd rather stay in welfare/entitlement, thinking of only themselves, refusing to make sacrifices for the next generation/family.
community reinvestment act, forces banks to give out loans to usually unqualified borrowers from low income backgrounds to get housing loans.Jaekus wrote:
People living on the poverty line aren't going out and buying houses, that's the point.
Don't forget, their native countries are also low-intensity war zones.Ilocano wrote:
BS. The millions of illegals we have disprove that BS culture of poverty notion. They (South Americans) come here, work their asses off, and send money home so there families can have a better life. Unlike the lazy ass shits here who'd rather stay in welfare/entitlement, thinking of only themselves, refusing to make sacrifices for the next generation/family.
Last edited by Spearhead (2012-12-07 15:15:21)
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ … ap19m.htmlAfrican-American students whose primary language is English perform significantly worse in math and reading than black students who speak another language at home — typically immigrants or refugees — according to new numbers released by Seattle Public Schools.
District officials, who presented the finding at a recent community meeting at Rainier Beach High School, noted the results come with caveats, but called the potential trend troubling and pledged to study what might be causing it.
Michael Tolley, an executive director overseeing Southeast Seattle schools, said at the meeting that the data exposed a new achievement gap that is "extremely, extremely alarming."
The administration has for years analyzed test scores by race. It has never before broken down student-achievement data by specific home language or country of origin — it is rare for school districts to examine test scores at that level — but it is unlikely that the phenomenon the data suggest is actually new.
In fact, some national experts said the trend represented by the Seattle data is not surprising. They pointed to some studies about college attendance and achievement indicating that immigrant families from all backgrounds tend to put a larger emphasis on education than those families that have been in the country longer.
American poor people just have a fucked up culture. This example is of black people, but white trash are in the same boat.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
South America isn't 80's Colombia. The drug war is over reported. It is like claiming Michigan is a war zone because of Detroit.Spearhead wrote:
Don't forget, their native countries are also low-intensity war zones.Ilocano wrote:
BS. The millions of illegals we have disprove that BS culture of poverty notion. They (South Americans) come here, work their asses off, and send money home so there families can have a better life. Unlike the lazy ass shits here who'd rather stay in welfare/entitlement, thinking of only themselves, refusing to make sacrifices for the next generation/family.
U.N.'s human development index puts most of South American countries into the high-very high section. Quality of life is increasingly coming into line with the rest of the Western states.
no it doesn't, try again.Cybargs wrote:
community reinvestment act, forces banks to give out loans to usually unqualified borrowers from low income backgrounds to get housing loans.Jaekus wrote:
People living on the poverty line aren't going out and buying houses, that's the point.
Most of the Hispanic people I grew up with were from Nicaragua, El Salvador or Peru.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
That must be why illegal immigration rates have fallen... I was thinking of Mexico mainly though. What percentage of immigrants in the US are from which countries?Macbeth wrote:
South America isn't 80's Colombia. The drug war is over reported. It is like claiming Michigan is a war zone because of Detroit.Spearhead wrote:
Don't forget, their native countries are also low-intensity war zones.Ilocano wrote:
BS. The millions of illegals we have disprove that BS culture of poverty notion. They (South Americans) come here, work their asses off, and send money home so there families can have a better life. Unlike the lazy ass shits here who'd rather stay in welfare/entitlement, thinking of only themselves, refusing to make sacrifices for the next generation/family.
U.N.'s human development index puts most of South American countries into the high-very high section. Quality of life is increasingly coming into line with the rest of the Western states.
Illegal immigration has fallen because our economy is still pretty flat.
Illegal immigration percents
Mexico (57%)
Other Latin American Countries (24%)
Asia (9%)
Europe and Canada (6%)
Africa and Other (5%)
http://www.gcir.org/immigration/facts/statistics
Illegal immigration percents
Mexico (57%)
Other Latin American Countries (24%)
Asia (9%)
Europe and Canada (6%)
Africa and Other (5%)
http://www.gcir.org/immigration/facts/statistics
This was a really good article: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 … ise-mexicoSpearhead wrote:
That must be why illegal immigration rates have fallen... I was thinking of Mexico mainly though. What percentage of immigrants in the US are from which countries?
Immigration rates have fallen due to a combination of Mexico's booming economy and our own prolonged recession.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
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