Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England
Open your notebooks and sharpen your pencils. School for thousands of public school students is about to get quite a bit longer.

Five states were to announce Monday that they will add at least 300 hours of learning time to the calendar in some schools starting in 2013. Colorado, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York and Tennessee will take part in the initiative, which is intended to boost student achievement and make U.S. schools more competitive on a global level.

The three-year pilot program will affect almost 20,000 students in 40 schools, with long-term hopes of expanding the program to include additional schools – especially those that serve low-income communities. Schools, working in concert with districts, parents and teachers, will decide whether to make the school day longer, add more days to the school year or both.

A mix of federal, state and district funds will cover the costs of expanded learning time, with the Ford Foundation and the National Center on Time & Learning also chipping in resources. In Massachusetts, the program builds on the state's existing expanded-learning program. In Connecticut, Gov. Dannel Malloy is hailing it as a natural outgrowth of an education reform law the state passed in May that included about $100 million in new funding, much of it to help the neediest schools.

Spending more time in the classroom, education officials said, will give students access to a more well-rounded curriculum that includes arts and music, individualized help for students who fall behind and opportunities to reinforce critical math and science skills.

"Whether educators have more time to enrich instruction or students have more time to learn how to play an instrument and write computer code, adding meaningful in-school hours is a critical investment that better prepares children to be successful in the 21st century," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a statement.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/0 … 29411.html

I don't get it, honestly. Do kids really need to spend an extra two hours a day or an extra two months in school every year? Is that really the problem? Seems like a really good way to increase the dropout rate to me.

Maybe the real problem is saturation? Too many largely useless topics shoved into a typical day of school? I'm sorry, but much of my junior year was wasted memorizing trigonometric proofs that I never ever used in my heavily math oriented degree. Is it utterly important that kids learn about ancient Egypt or can history class realistically be rolled into English classes? The problem isn't with the time spent at school, it's the structure in which it is taught. There's honestly no reason in the world that kids can't learn Calculus beginning in 9th grade. It just means cutting out the needless BS that currently fills school curriculums.

Have kids take two or three subjects at a time instead of trying to cram in seven. Spend less time doing remedial shit at the beginning of every school year/semester. There's a million ways to fix the system without resorting to turning school into another 13 years of 9-5 grinding. Isn't the future 47 years of that enough? Let kids be kids, jesus.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

The three-year pilot program will affect almost 20,000 students in 40 schools, with long-term hopes of expanding the program to include additional schools – especially those that serve low-income communities.
especially those that serve low-income communities.
In the case of those students less time on the streets would be for the best.
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|6956|Riva, MD
Public schooling is just teenage babysitting anyway.  So glad I graduated and never have to put up with a bunch of new large changes like that anymore.

Btw, they don't usually cram everything in a single day anymore.  I had four classes a day when I went to high school but my brother who's 11.5 years older was telling me about the old days when they had an insane amount of little 45-minute to an hour long classes in a day

Last edited by _j5689_ (2012-12-02 21:14:46)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England
My classes were 50 minutes each if I remember correctly.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England
My college classes were usually 1hr15mins each
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

The problem isn't in the amount of time spent AT school. The problem is the amount of time spent IN class. I bet a teenager could learn more sitting in a math class for two six-hour sessions than he could in ten fifty-minute sessions. Kids spend the first and last ten-to-fifteen minutes of their class time phasing into focus or phasing out of it. Immersion should be the focus, and a full day devoted to one subject would give them a ton of consecutive minutes where they're at the height of their attentive capacity.
BVC
Member
+325|6935
Out of curiosity, how many hours a day does a kid spend in high school in your area?

At mine it was 5x 1hr periods and a half hour for "family form" at the start of the day, plus morning/afternoon tea and lunch.  More choice of subjects the longer you stayed on too.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955

BVC wrote:

Out of curiosity, how many hours a day does a kid spend in high school in your area?
In asia it's 7am get to school, classes start at 7:30am ends at 5pm and kids go to cram school till 9pm, then do homework til god knows when. And the government is scratching their heads to why kids are killing themselves over stress and are in poor physical condition.

GG asians.

In my high school we had 90 minute "blocks," 4 blocks a day with English class everyday coz our school is retarded. And we only get 1 credit for english instead of double when that time could have been used for other classes.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX
And they end up as adults unable to go outdoors in the sun without almost closing up their eyes - GG asians.

Pretty much my whole education I studied 10 subjects simultaneously - except A-level which had subjects within subjects so I dunno.

Quality is much more important than quantity, if those extra 300 hrs are spent writing essays discussing how protons feel when they meet their first electron then it would be wasted.
I don't even know what kids study, it doesn't seem to equip them for a whole lot.
Fuck Israel
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

BVC wrote:

Out of curiosity, how many hours a day does a kid spend in high school in your area?
In asia it's 7am get to school, classes start at 7:30am ends at 5pm and kids go to cram school till 9pm, then do homework til god knows when. And the government is scratching their heads to why kids are killing themselves over stress and are in poor physical condition.

GG asians.

In my high school we had 90 minute "blocks," 4 blocks a day with English class everyday coz our school is retarded. And we only get 1 credit for english instead of double when that time could have been used for other classes.
7:30-2:45 pm if I recall correctly. 7hrs 15 mins total
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955
my high school was 8am-3:35 so around half an hour more.
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Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6971|St. Andrews / Oslo

Do you still do the pledge of allegiance? Cutting that would give you some hours.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

Jenspm wrote:

Do you still do the pledge of allegiance? Cutting that would give you some hours.
I dunno. It was every day in elementary school for me though National anthem every morning through eighth grade
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6978|Toronto | Canada

sounds good to me.  they definitely need to do that here and make the curriculum tougher.  ontario's high school system is notoriously weak and they make it easier all the time
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5782|Toronto

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

The problem isn't in the amount of time spent AT school. The problem is the amount of time spent IN class. I bet a teenager could learn more sitting in a math class for two six-hour sessions than he could in ten fifty-minute sessions. Kids spend the first and last ten-to-fifteen minutes of their class time phasing into focus or phasing out of it. Immersion should be the focus, and a full day devoted to one subject would give them a ton of consecutive minutes where they're at the height of their attentive capacity.
I think this is pretty accurate. Maybe not radically longer sessions, but instead moving from 1 hour to near 2 would provide a lot more value for the time spent in school. Of course, the issue becomes burn-out, but this can be alleviated with the tiered system we have here in Canada.

At the least there are 3 tiers: essential (designed for trade-school students), applied (for technical college students), and academic (for university bound students). There is also the opportunity for AP courses beyond this, which is obviously for the best students intending to attend university. It prevents burn-out by keeping classes at a similar level and with a similar set of goals. Sure, we divide the student population, but this happens naturally in cliques and clubs anyways. The students get to choose their stream.

A typical class session is 1hr 40min if IIRC here in Canada. The system isn't perfect.

I don't think that teaching kids STEM subjects all day with hints of English courses is the answer to our problems.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

Pochsy wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

The problem isn't in the amount of time spent AT school. The problem is the amount of time spent IN class. I bet a teenager could learn more sitting in a math class for two six-hour sessions than he could in ten fifty-minute sessions. Kids spend the first and last ten-to-fifteen minutes of their class time phasing into focus or phasing out of it. Immersion should be the focus, and a full day devoted to one subject would give them a ton of consecutive minutes where they're at the height of their attentive capacity.
I think this is pretty accurate. Maybe not radically longer sessions, but instead moving from 1 hour to near 2 would provide a lot more value for the time spent in school. Of course, the issue becomes burn-out, but this can be alleviated with the tiered system we have here in Canada.

At the least there are 3 tiers: essential (designed for trade-school students), applied (for technical college students), and academic (for university bound students). There is also the opportunity for AP courses beyond this, which is obviously for the best students intending to attend university. It prevents burn-out by keeping classes at a similar level and with a similar set of goals. Sure, we divide the student population, but this happens naturally in cliques and clubs anyways. The students get to choose their stream.

A typical class session is 1hr 40min if IIRC here in Canada. The system isn't perfect.

I don't think that teaching kids STEM subjects all day with hints of English courses is the answer to our problems.
Burn-out is seriously my biggest fear. Or, imagine being the unpopular kid in school that gets picked on and having to look forward to an extra two months of torture every year now
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6929|Tampa Bay Florida
meh, no one farms anymore.  Who cares.  It'd be more efficient to have multiple 2-3 week vacations interspersed throughout the year, rather than having 2 months of absolutely nothing whatsoever.

also, what newbie said.  The ideal system would be to dedicate each day to only 1 or 2 classes in middle/high school.  So much time is spent wasted going from class to class, 6 or 7 times a day.  It's mind numbing and eats away at probably 40 percent of the time kids are actually at school.

Last edited by Spearhead (2012-12-03 07:14:33)

DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6920|Disaster Free Zone

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

The problem isn't in the amount of time spent AT school. The problem is the amount of time spent IN class. I bet a teenager could learn more sitting in a math class for two six-hour sessions than he could in ten fifty-minute sessions. Kids spend the first and last ten-to-fifteen minutes of their class time phasing into focus or phasing out of it. Immersion should be the focus, and a full day devoted to one subject would give them a ton of consecutive minutes where they're at the height of their attentive capacity.
You've got to be kidding. Anything over about 1.5-2 hours of one subject and you lose all focus and motivation. We had 6, 53min periods at high school, and they were definitely long enough.
Mutantbear
Semi Constructive Criticism
+1,431|6204|London, England

All kids should be homeschooled and we'll use the money we dont spend on schools to buy jetskis
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ https://i.imgur.com/Xj4f2.png
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955

DrunkFace wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

The problem isn't in the amount of time spent AT school. The problem is the amount of time spent IN class. I bet a teenager could learn more sitting in a math class for two six-hour sessions than he could in ten fifty-minute sessions. Kids spend the first and last ten-to-fifteen minutes of their class time phasing into focus or phasing out of it. Immersion should be the focus, and a full day devoted to one subject would give them a ton of consecutive minutes where they're at the height of their attentive capacity.
You've got to be kidding. Anything over about 1.5-2 hours of one subject and you lose all focus and motivation. We had 6, 53min periods at high school, and they were definitely long enough.
That's why you teach for 45 minutes, and let them do assignments/coursework for 45 minutes and the ones they don't finish will be homework. That's how they did it at my high school and it worked pretty well, especially for maths because if you had problems you can find the teacher during class time for help as well.
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DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6920|Disaster Free Zone
yeh, where I went is was more like.

Teacher explain a concept/goes through an example or 2  (10-15mins)
Students do questions based on previous concept (15-20mins)
Teacher explains new concept/examples (usually expanded on previous one) (5-15mins)
Students do more questions till period ends.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5597|London, England

Cybargs wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

The problem isn't in the amount of time spent AT school. The problem is the amount of time spent IN class. I bet a teenager could learn more sitting in a math class for two six-hour sessions than he could in ten fifty-minute sessions. Kids spend the first and last ten-to-fifteen minutes of their class time phasing into focus or phasing out of it. Immersion should be the focus, and a full day devoted to one subject would give them a ton of consecutive minutes where they're at the height of their attentive capacity.
You've got to be kidding. Anything over about 1.5-2 hours of one subject and you lose all focus and motivation. We had 6, 53min periods at high school, and they were definitely long enough.
That's why you teach for 45 minutes, and let them do assignments/coursework for 45 minutes and the ones they don't finish will be homework. That's how they did it at my high school and it worked pretty well, especially for maths because if you had problems you can find the teacher during class time for help as well.
That's not a bad setup. Listening to a lecture beyond the one hour mark is a great way to have people tune out.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
PrivateVendetta
I DEMAND XMAS THEME
+704|6430|Roma
Attention span on average is something like 20-40mins. Good luck with a 6 hour lesson.
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Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5418|Sydney
6 hour lesson?? Riiiiiiiight....
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

DrunkFace wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

The problem isn't in the amount of time spent AT school. The problem is the amount of time spent IN class. I bet a teenager could learn more sitting in a math class for two six-hour sessions than he could in ten fifty-minute sessions. Kids spend the first and last ten-to-fifteen minutes of their class time phasing into focus or phasing out of it. Immersion should be the focus, and a full day devoted to one subject would give them a ton of consecutive minutes where they're at the height of their attentive capacity.
You've got to be kidding. Anything over about 1.5-2 hours of one subject and you lose all focus and motivation. We had 6, 53min periods at high school, and they were definitely long enough.
I'm not kidding and you're wrong. Right now, you've got several classes per day. As mentioned, so much fucking time is wasted getting your shit, getting to class, sitting down, spreading your shit out then getting focused....only to get unfocused towards the end of class, thinking about getting out of class, how you're going to get your shit together and what shit you need to get for your next class. Then you've gotta hit the hallways more times than would be necessary if classes were simply longer and deal with whatever crap you come across there. Nosy staff, bored asshole kids, take your pick.

Short-assed classes are a HORRENDOUS timesink, and personal experienced with immersion-instruction proves to me that it generates greater focus and interest among students.

PrivateVendetta wrote:

Attention span on average is something like 20-40mins. Good luck with a 6 hour lesson.

Jaekus wrote:

6 hour lesson?? Riiiiiiiight....
Guys, to clarify, there ARE lunches and breaks spread out around that "six hour day." Thing is, when you come back, your brain will still be on the same material.

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