Should Apple users demand better conditions for Chinese workers?!

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Should Apple users demand better conditions for Chinese workers?!

2012-10-14 15:18:51

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5593

Producing Apple products is a really tough job.

FLA auditors found that some employees worked more than seven days in a row without stopping, despite requirements that workers have at least a 24-hour break. More than 50 percent of workers at each of the factories audited exceeded the legal limit on overtime — 36 hours per month.

The auditors also found urgent health and safety issues, including the presence of aluminum dust, which caused a fatal explosion at a plant in Chengdu, China, in 2011.
...
Living conditions in Foxconn campus dormitories remain cramped, with 20 or 30 workers sharing three-bedroom flats, sleeping eight to a room in bunkbeds.

They are forbidden to use power-hungry electrical items such as kettles or laptops on pain of confiscation, says Sacom, which published the study to coincide with Foxconn's annual general meeting in Hong Kong on Thursday.

Where most assembly staff were previously forced to stand, stools have now been introduced for some workers. However, they are under instructions to sit on only a third of the seat, so that they remain "nimble" enough to do the work.

Working conidtions have led to suicides. Apple responded by putting up nets to prevent jumpers.

If we in America (the place that consumes the most Apple stuff) consider ourselves the world's moral authority on human rights shouldn't we be asking that the people who make the gadgets we use be treated better? Since they are humans and have rights and all. I don't think it is too much to ask that our conspicuous displays of wealth and toys are made by people who aren't driven to kissing pavement.

I also don't think making the lives of the workers a little better will bankrupt Apple or stop investors from making some sweet dividends. Considering how expensive Apple products are, and that the company has a market cap of $600 billion as well as $100 billion in the bank, Apple can afford to improve working conditions at the factories that make Apple products. At the very least they can take measures to make sure people don't breath aluminum dust.

I know what you are thinking. Yes I own foreign made products. I don't mind paying a bit more for my stuff if it means my toys aren't produced by slave labor. I'm sure my car would be cheaper if it was produced and assembled by Chinese workers instead of Japanese and American. I'm okay with it not being cheaper though.

I could be wrong though! Maybe we don't have any responsibility to the people who make our things. Maybe its is every man for himself in our free market societies. Maybe it is not our problem.

It doesn't matter what I think about Apple though. I haven't owned an Apple product since 2006 when my parents bought me an Ipod video. So there is no blood on my hands.

What do you think?

2012-10-14 15:45:10

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6724

Foxconn employees have a lower suicide rate than the average person in China. There's 400,000 employees in that company and sure working conditions are shit and yet people are still LINING UP to get jobs at foxconn because they're much much better than the alternatives.

You buy ANY computer products, foxconn has made parts for it - that's how big in the OEM process they are.

What you're forgetting is that Apple can no way influence what foxconn does, foxconn is a subcontractor and unless Apple finds a new one, they're fucked.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2012-10-14 15:57:05

-Whiteroom-: Pineapplewhat; +572|6666|BC, Canada

Cybargs wrote:
Foxconn employees have a lower suicide rate than the average person in China. There's 400,000 employees in that company and sure working conditions are shit and yet people are still LINING UP to get jobs at foxconn because they're much much better than the alternatives.

You buy ANY computer products, foxconn has made parts for it - that's how big in the OEM process they are.

What you're forgetting is that Apple can no way influence what foxconn does, foxconn is a subcontractor and unless Apple finds a new one, they're fucked.

Of course Apple could, A huge amount of money foxconn makes comes from apple, so apple has the power to make some changes.

2012-10-14 21:25:42

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6724

-Whiteroom- wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
Foxconn employees have a lower suicide rate than the average person in China. There's 400,000 employees in that company and sure working conditions are shit and yet people are still LINING UP to get jobs at foxconn because they're much much better than the alternatives.

You buy ANY computer products, foxconn has made parts for it - that's how big in the OEM process they are.

What you're forgetting is that Apple can no way influence what foxconn does, foxconn is a subcontractor and unless Apple finds a new one, they're fucked.
Of course Apple could, A huge amount of money foxconn makes comes from apple, so apple has the power to make some changes.

I doubt apple would try to enforce "better working conditions" Foxconn has other major customers too eg nokia, HP, Dell, intel, etc.

Either way suicide rates in foxconn is lower than Chinese national average.

Foxconn is already paying 15-26% more due to the suicides.

2012-10-14 21:27:29

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6505

Cybargs wrote:
Foxconn is already paying 15-26% more due to the suicides.

sounds like people are just dieing to work at foxxconn

2012-10-14 21:58:54

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6418|'Murka

Wait...I thought it was a Foxconn factory, not an Apple factory.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2012-10-14 22:03:17

-Whiteroom-: Pineapplewhat; +572|6666|BC, Canada

Cybargs wrote:
-Whiteroom- wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
Foxconn employees have a lower suicide rate than the average person in China. There's 400,000 employees in that company and sure working conditions are shit and yet people are still LINING UP to get jobs at foxconn because they're much much better than the alternatives.

You buy ANY computer products, foxconn has made parts for it - that's how big in the OEM process they are.

What you're forgetting is that Apple can no way influence what foxconn does, foxconn is a subcontractor and unless Apple finds a new one, they're fucked.
Of course Apple could, A huge amount of money foxconn makes comes from apple, so apple has the power to make some changes.
I doubt apple would try to enforce "better working conditions"

It's not if you think they would, but if they should. That was the question.

2012-10-14 22:16:51

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6724

Foxconn conditions and pay are already better than the local alternatives, so no.

2012-10-15 00:07:47

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5186|Sydney

The way I see it, they start out as kids making rugs for westerners and move up the ladder to iPhones. Seems legit.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
for the dense I'm clearly being facetious

2012-10-15 01:15:30

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6160|what

If Apple wanted safe and friendly work environments for its factory workers, they wouldn't have hired Chinese workers.

They wanted the cheapest and this is the result. Don't fool yourself that this is somehow weird that the conditions are bad, they're bad because Apple doesn't have to or want to pay for safety and decent wages.

2012-10-15 01:19:46

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5186|Sydney

Cybargs wrote:
Foxconn conditions and pay are already better than the local alternatives, so no.

Better than the local conditions does not mean they are good conditions, just not as bad.

Apple are a huge multi-billion dollar corporation. If they told Foxconn to improve conditions for workers or they'll find another contractor who will I'm sure Foxconn would do something.

Truth is Apple care more about selling products and making money than they do about the people assembling them in the first place.

2012-10-15 01:29:43

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6724

Jaekus wrote:
they'll find another contractor who will I'm sure Foxconn would do something.

Problem is you need foxconn's output capacity - a company of 800,000 employees.

Wages and living condition will increase naturally, most other tech companies in China aren't that much better anyway. What AR said is true, you don't produce in China because you care about human rights, you produce there because its cheap.

If apple really cared about the well being of assembly line employees, they would've hired factories in Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan or even South Korea to produce the phones.

2012-10-15 01:44:32

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5186|Sydney

Cybargs wrote:
Jaekus wrote:
they'll find another contractor who will I'm sure Foxconn would do something.
Problem is you need foxconn's output capacity - a company of 800,000 employees.

Yeah I had thought that to be an issue.

Cybargs wrote:
Wages and living condition will increase naturally, most other tech companies in China aren't that much better anyway. What AR said is true, you don't produce in China because you care about human rights, you produce there because its cheap.

If apple really cared about the well being of assembly line employees, they would've hired factories in Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan or even South Korea to produce the phones.

Wages in China have been increasing by around 20% a year for most of the past decade, or so I read a couple weeks ago in an article about Australia selling resrouces to China and how it has been slowing down due to rising costs.

2012-10-15 02:46:52

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6724

Depends on the industry though, for sweatshop work China is really expensive compared to vietnam, indonesia or laos but for "high tech work" like FAB manufacturing and electrical components China is still pretty cheap.

2012-10-15 05:27:57

jsnipy: ...; +3,276|6530|...

FEOS wrote:
Wait...I thought it was a Foxconn factory, not an Apple factory.

this

Also, I would guess there are 100's if not 1000's of western companies not as popular as apple with Asian suppliers/manufacturers who have work conditions that are not to western standards.

2012-10-15 09:40:18

lavadisk: I am a cat ¦ 3; +369|6837|Denver colorado

Yes. We Should.

2012-10-15 09:53:31

Uzique The Lesser: Banned; +382|4262

Jaekus wrote:
Truth is Apple care more about selling products and making money than they do about the people assembling them in the first place.

and this is different from any other fucking company in the world how, exactly?

i think some realism is needed in this debate. people just want to jump on apple's dick because it's apple. the only reason apple are used as an example is because of their huge size and value. but every single company does this. it's called 'capitalism'. have overheads and production costs as low as possible --> maximise profits. stop acting like apple are some immoral or evil corporate entity; corporations are mostly a-moral, no plus or negative about it. corporations seldom assume social responsibility in the US of A, so why the fuck would apple do it in china? this is the role that unions are supposed to occupy.

Last edited by aynrandroolz (2012-10-15 09:55:10)

2012-10-15 10:46:48

Frank Reynolds: Member; +65|4336

no. let the yuppies have their toys.

What are you looking at dicknose

2012-10-15 14:23:59

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5186|Sydney

aynrandroolz wrote:
Jaekus wrote:
Truth is Apple care more about selling products and making money than they do about the people assembling them in the first place.
and this is different from any other fucking company in the world how, exactly?

i think some realism is needed in this debate. people just want to jump on apple's dick because it's apple. the only reason apple are used as an example is because of their huge size and value. but every single company does this. it's called 'capitalism'. have overheads and production costs as low as possible --> maximise profits. stop acting like apple are some immoral or evil corporate entity; corporations are mostly a-moral, no plus or negative about it. corporations seldom assume social responsibility in the US of A, so why the fuck would apple do it in china? this is the role that unions are supposed to occupy.

You read a lot into things that wasn't there in the first place.

2012-10-15 17:35:56

BVC: Member; +325|6703

Its apple. Their prevention strategy will consist solely of trying to patent the idea of suicide, and then suing anybody who tries it.

Last edited by BVC (2012-10-15 17:36:12)

2012-10-16 00:19:19

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6113|eXtreme to the maX

Should Western companies demand better conditions for foreign workers producing their goods?

Should Western consumers demand better conditions for foreign workers producing their goods?

Should governments demand better conditions for foreign workers competing with their nations workers?

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2012-10-16 01:12:23

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6160|what

B.

But it'll never happen because $

2012-10-16 02:52:49

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6724

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19931639

lawl

Last edited by Cybargs (2012-10-16 02:53:01)

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