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Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|5817|Cambridge, England

Macbeth wrote:

You guys are acting like they raped his daughters.

Rich guy blatantly breaking international law gets his home raided. Just breaks my heart.
Except he wasn't and the whole case is going to end up getting thrown out due to US misconduct.

The US have made the case that file copying is illegal because it is the same as stealing physical objects. They then copied the megaupload servers and stated this wasnt against the law because the physical evidence was returned and taking a copy is not the same as taking the physical evidence.

"potential sale" is an even bigger load of shite than piracy = free speech.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4670

BVC wrote:

Blatantly breaking international law?  Pull the other one Macbeth.  If KDC & co were breaking copyright laws, then using the same logic you should conclude that your local council is guilty of speeding, purely by virtue of having supplied the roads on which speeding takes place.

The only reason he has been arrested is because the NZ government has the collective dicks of the US government & a bunch of American corps firmly in it's mouth.  (maybe thats why JK supports gay marriage )
I guess you are right. He didn't know his service was being used to facilitate the breaking of copyright laws. It is not like he set up the company in Hong Kong and had multiple sites dedicated to sharing files. Nope he was just an innocent man who had no idea he was helping violate the wishes of media producers. Damn America, stomping all over people's right to movies and music.

Last edited by Macbeth (2012-08-09 08:23:47)

Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4670

The US have made the case that file copying is illegal because it is the same as stealing physical objects.
Google "moral equivalence".
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,926|5716|949

Macbeth wrote:

BVC wrote:

Blatantly breaking international law?  Pull the other one Macbeth.  If KDC & co were breaking copyright laws, then using the same logic you should conclude that your local council is guilty of speeding, purely by virtue of having supplied the roads on which speeding takes place.

The only reason he has been arrested is because the NZ government has the collective dicks of the US government & a bunch of American corps firmly in it's mouth.  (maybe thats why JK supports gay marriage )
I guess you are right. He didn't know his service was being used to facilitate the breaking of copyright laws. It is not like he set up the company in Hong Kong and had multiple sites dedicated to sharing files. Nope he was just an innocent man who had no idea he was helping violate the wishes of media producers. Damn America, stomping all over people's right to movies and music.
Let's not forget he was making money off subscriptions and advertising and not paying the copyright owners for this.  It's more complex than just "piracy isn't stealing".
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5237|what

So? You can provide torrents of open source materials and non copyright material. I've downloaded a few of these.

How was he to know that the subscribers were doing illegal things on what he thought were legal traffic?

Plausible deniability.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|5823|Toronto | Canada

i want to see the raid on the postmasters house for allowing people to mail counterfeit dvds from china
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|5774|Tampa Bay Florida

Macbeth wrote:

You guys are acting like they raped his daughters.

Rich guy blatantly breaking international law gets his home raided. Just breaks my heart.
Everyone knows his business model is shady shit and that at best he's just exploiting a loophole to get rich.
BVC
Member
+325|5780

Macbeth wrote:

BVC wrote:

Blatantly breaking international law?  Pull the other one Macbeth.  If KDC & co were breaking copyright laws, then using the same logic you should conclude that your local council is guilty of speeding, purely by virtue of having supplied the roads on which speeding takes place.

The only reason he has been arrested is because the NZ government has the collective dicks of the US government & a bunch of American corps firmly in it's mouth.  (maybe thats why JK supports gay marriage )
I guess you are right. He didn't know his service was being used to facilitate the breaking of copyright laws. It is not like he set up the company in Hong Kong and had multiple sites dedicated to sharing files. Nope he was just an innocent man who had no idea he was helping violate the wishes of media producers. Damn America, stomping all over people's right to movies and music.
I never said he didn't know his service was being used for that, so don't try to imply that I did.  In fact, he even gave the studios the ability to delete stuff instantly, if they thought it broke their copyrights.

What does HK busines reg have to do with anything?  Plenty of respectable multinational corps do that.  They also set up multiple companies for various purposes - to create a false sense of competition, to sell specific products, to ensure greater accountability across business units...hell, my employer has set up another company for an inhouse product which I'm helping with - does that make me a criminal?

And on the US involvement, you seem to be implying that my criticism was directed at the US government.  If you could actually read and understand the english language, you'd realise that it was directed mostly at my own government.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,926|5716|949

AussieReaper wrote:

So? You can provide torrents of open source materials and non copyright material. I've downloaded a few of these.

How was he to know that the subscribers were doing illegal things on what he thought were legal traffic?

Plausible deniability.
he has an obligation to monitor the info on his site.  If he can demonstrate that he has done this consistently then he has a better case.  If not, then no.

Do you think people should be allowed to download whatever they want whenever they want to?  Since everyone uses poor analogies to defend piracy, do you think grocery stores should just open their doors and let people just take stuff for free?  I'm amazed that what I thought were intelligent people on this website sound so fucking retarded when trying to defend the fact they are too cheap/lazy to buy music/dvds/software
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,926|5716|949

Winston_Churchill wrote:

i want to see the raid on the postmasters house for allowing people to mail counterfeit dvds from china
postmasters constantly check their transactions for illegal contraband.  They are not knowingly allowing people to traffic illegal goods - and they can demonstrate this.  The law is on their side because they are being proactive about sniffing out illegal activity.
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|5823|Toronto | Canada

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

i want to see the raid on the postmasters house for allowing people to mail counterfeit dvds from china
postmasters constantly check their transactions for illegal contraband.  They are not knowingly allowing people to traffic illegal goods - and they can demonstrate this.  The law is on their side because they are being proactive about sniffing out illegal activity.
and, by US law, all he has to do is take it down when its requested by the content creator (DCMA safe harbour, like youtube). which, iirc, they were doing.  i dont even particularly care about megaupload to be honest - ive actually probably used it 99% of the time for completely legal things like ROMs, kernels, sending files to friends, etc.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|5774|Tampa Bay Florida

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Do you think people should be allowed to download whatever they want whenever they want to?
People are using the "evil corporations" excuse to justify illegal activity.  We live in a world where anything not in the interest of multinational corporations is in the interest of the people, and vice versa.  There's no middle ground.  Good luck making the argument that multimedia companies are corrupt and profit-driven arms of a quasi-fascist censorship regime while simultaneously saying that this guy is a crook and was not obeying the law (he wasn't afaik).  It's too much for people to wrap their heads around.  They need a hero figure, even if he's the media industry equivalent of an international arms dealer.

Winston_Churchill wrote:

which, iirc, they were doing.
They weren't.

Last edited by Spearhead (2012-08-09 16:28:25)

Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|5823|Toronto | Canada

Spearhead wrote:

Winston_Churchill wrote:

which, iirc, they were doing.
They weren't.
It looks like they were, just in a sneakier way than other file hosts http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2012/01/ … ell-games/

I dont think anyone is looking at him as a hero, I've never known anyone to like him
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|4558|Ventura, California
I think a lot of misinformed people think he was a hero for the exact reason spearhead mentioned. They view him as a Robin Hood type hero of sorts.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|5817|Cambridge, England

Macbeth wrote:

The US have made the case that file copying is illegal because it is the same as stealing physical objects.
Google "moral equivalence".
If we both have an apple and we swap apples, we still each have 1 apple. If we both have an idea and swap ideas, we both now have 2 ideas.

Regardless I was highlighting the hypocrisy in their interpretation of the law.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4670

When you download a movie you are nor swapping anything. You are just taking something that the original owner doesn't want to give away.

Stupid analogy.

Downloading something and taking something out of a car are the moral equivalent not because of the physicality of the objects being transferred but because of the violation of the will of the original/rightful owner for the gain of the second party.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|5774|Tampa Bay Florida
Who's being punished when you pirate a movie?  The people who are already rich and will pump more millions into the next production to get you to go to the theater or the struggling independent artist who already can't compete but now will be seen as too much of a risk by producers? Same applies to music.

It'd be interesting to see a study on digital age piracy and it's effect on the actual content of media.
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|5408|Graz, Austria

Spearhead wrote:

It'd be interesting to see a study on digital age piracy and it's effect on the actual content of media.
Hmm...
Looking back the past decade, I have a feeling that Web 2.0 and the rise of all the social networks killed the music industry.

In the past, people listened to the billboard charts and watched MTV to see what's hip and new to go and buy, bundled with tons of advertisements in those media.

Later, all this was transferred to the internet with new media like MySpace, YouTube and Facebook, were you (semi-)actively look what hip and new.
Only this time, with much, much less advertisement opportunities for big companies to force-feed you the newest hip stuff.
(Personally, I haven't seen any advertisements at all since 2006 and AdBlock for Firefox.)
The old marketing schemes simply don't work on the internet anymore. (Or quite differently and much more difficult to prospect.)

The most important thing though, is, that people broadened their interests, they found much more variety, thus the market shares of the big companies started to drastically spread all around.

Piracy is only a minor factor in this calculation, although one that you can relatively easy sue with ridiculous law suits.
It's much harder to sue YouTube and Facebook for becoming the new hip thing.
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|5817|Cambridge, England
Finnish band Älymystö are furious at local anti-piracy groups after their action forced The Pirate Bay to become blocked by several of the country’s largest Internet providers. The band, which has been around for more than a decade, views BitTorrent sites as a valuable form of promotion. To counter the blockades, Älymystö are now showing their fans how easy it is to circumvent the censorship attempt.
“We don’t want the courts to mess with our Pirate Bay based promotion,” Älymystö’s Janos Honkonen tells TorrentFreak. “We’ve embraced the Internet since the beginning. Our stuff is on sale in most of the web stores, but it’s also been up for grabs as a torrent and a direct download.”

Because of the blockade, potential fans can no longer download their work, but luckily the band has a solution.

In an article on their website Älymystö shows that it’s not that hard to get around the block. They link to the piraattilahti.org website and also mention a list of other proxies that allow fans to bypass the blockade. In addition, the band mentions that VPNs are a good option to access The Pirate Bay.
Thats odd considering it is the artists that suffer from "piracy"

Actually talking about how artists are the people that suffer:

Earlier this year the sentences against the Pirate Bay defendants were made final. Aside from prison sentences, they will have to pay damages to the entertainment industries, including €550,000 to several major music labels. The court awarded the damages to compensate artists and rightsholders for their losses.

“There is an agreement that any recovered funds will be paid to IFPI Sweden and IFPI London for use in future anti-piracy activities,” IFPI writes.
Wait, the artists that are €550,000 out of pocket because of the pirate bay are not going to see any of the compensation? I see.

https://torrentfreak.com/images/riaa-chart.jpg

Source: NPD Digital Music Study December 2010-11

Hmm wonder why this is marked as confidential as it clearly shows that 65% of music is "stolen"

On Wednesday, Warner Bros. announced third quarter profits (not revenue) of $822 million, representing a 57% increase on last year. Revenues were $7.07 billion, 11% higher than last year. The company sent out an email to employees talking about how it was "another record" quarter for the company. Then, very soon after that email went out, another email went out, telling employees about how difficult life was at Warner Bros. these days due to the scourge of "content theft," and urging people to support the astroturfing group CreativeAmerica.
Right...

TBH im not a huge downloader, the only thing I pirated all year has been Far Cry 2 because I have upgraded my pc "too many times" since I bought the the disc and so I can no longer install it.

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