skratch-x
Member
+25|6639|NY, USA

kr@cker wrote:

Hooray for socialized medicine!!! Rectal exams for everyone!!!! This still doesn't explain how it's ok for people to receive something for nothing off the blood, sweat, and tears of the people that work their asses off, or what about the countless failures of socialized medicine like cancer patients dying while waiting in queue for treatments and sometimes being just plain denied treatment b/c it's too expensive, while teenage girls are getting breast implants to improve their self esteem.
This is not "receiving something for nothing"; how hard you work is not directly linked to how much money you make.  When I was in high school I lucked out with a job that payed $100 for 9 hours of work a week.  I had friends who worked much harder than me and either made marginally more or not even as much every week.  Just because someone's making more money than someone else doesn't mean that the former is working themselves to the bones while the latter is lolly-gagging around.  I'm sure there are cases where this is true,  but in the big picture, I don't buy it.  Have you ever heard of the social contract?  It's the idea that you agree with what your government deems are mutual expectations as far as the people and the administration are concerned.  If you do not agree with this implicit relationship, you can try to change it or leave.  As far as boob jobs taking precidence over terminal illness?  I'm not sure where you came up with that one, but give me a situation where it really happened and we'll talk about it.

kr@cker wrote:

As well as the fact that many of these countries have the highest unemployment rates in the industrialized world, generally in the double digits, while last I heard ours was only 4.2% ( for perspective i beleive that Bill's average was somewhere around 5.4%), how often do amazing breakthroughs in...well just about anything come from one of these countries. I keep hearing arguments like how the average life expectancy of a chinese male is so much higher than ours, without putting any perspective on the issue like how the average chinese male doesn't go out and bungee jump or race atv's in their spare time (I still have an impression of that tree branch in my thigh).
Unemployment rates are marginally higher in many European countries, but most are in the single digits, a percent or two higher than that of the US.  Poland is one notable exception, but remember that this nation got fucked really hard by Soviet rule.  I'm no expert on European economics but I'm willing to bet there are explanations that have nothing to do with their social welfare system.  Or how about we look at the gap between rich and poor in the US as compared to much of Europe?

kr@cker wrote:

And yes minimum wage is less than $6.00 an hour, but guess what, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT A FAMILY OFF MINIMUM WAGE!!! It's designed to ensure that people just entering the workplace for the first time (i.e. high school students) don't get dry raped on payday. If you are over 20 (some people are fortunate enough to be in circumstances allowing them to concentrate on school rather than a job) and you are still on minimum wage you should be sterilized and not allowed to breed. The standard of living for american citizens living below the poverty line is still higher than most of europe's middle class.
Actually I'm pretty sure the reason minimum wage was created was to stop the exploitation of labor-intensive workers in the early 20th century.  However, it's probably not fair to say it still serves the same purpose, but to an extent it still does.  If you're under... what is it, 14?  You don't get paid minimum wage.  Or is it 16?  I don't remember.  I'm not sure where you're pulling that out about Europe's middle class having a LOWER standard of living than our SUB-POVERTY population??  Talk to some people who live below the poverty line and I'm sure they'll tell you how much happier they are than a European middle class citizen.

kr@cker wrote:

And no that wasn't an act of charity on my part, he required money, I required a service. Charity is when I stop to help someone change a tire. Charity is abused and wasted on people who are victims of their own poor judgement, rather than people who actually need it like the children of fallen soldiers.
Correct it isn't charity.  I worded my thoughts poorly.  Maybe there just isn't a word for what I want to call it... it was very good of you to allow him to perform a service for you and pay him when you could have probably done it yourself or gotten someone under sallary to do it.
-F8-Scotch
Member
+43|6571

sktach-x wrote:

This is not "receiving something for nothing"; how hard you work is not directly linked to how much money you make.  When I was in high school I lucked out with a job that payed $100 for 9 hours of work a week.  I had friends who worked much harder than me and either made marginally more or not even as much every week.  Just because someone's making more money than someone else doesn't mean that the former is working themselves to the bones while the latter is lolly-gagging around.  I'm sure there are cases where this is true,  but in the big picture, I don't buy it.  Have you ever heard of the social contract?  It's the idea that you agree with what your government deems are mutual expectations as far as the people and the administration are concerned.  If you do not agree with this implicit relationship, you can try to change it or leave.  As far as boob jobs taking precidence over terminal illness?  I'm not sure where you came up with that one, but give me a situation where it really happened and we'll talk about it.
Complete agreement with this statement. There are alot of folks out there working thier butts off trying to get ahead, support a family or buy a house/car. Many of these people are below the college education level yet provide invaluable services to our community. What tickles my toaster is when I hear of a oil exec. recieving a $400,000,000 retirement package while some of thier employees might have to work two or three jobs to survive. I'm all in favor of fair compensation yet somehow I doubt that a 25+year project assitant or mid level engineer is going to recieve even a small fraction of $400,000,000 dollars for retirement. Thus depending on a broken social security system which for all intents and purposes was designed to provide for those who aren't raking in the extra bucks or who worked jobs which are generally unheralded by our society.


skrtach-x wrote:

Actually I'm pretty sure the reason minimum wage was created was to stop the exploitation of labor-intensive workers in the early 20th century.  However, it's probably not fair to say it still serves the same purpose, but to an extent it still does.  If you're under... what is it, 14?  You don't get paid minimum wage.  Or is it 16?  I don't remember.  I'm not sure where you're pulling that out about Europe's middle class having a LOWER standard of living than our SUB-POVERTY population??  Talk to some people who live below the poverty line and I'm sure they'll tell you how much happier they are than a European middle class citizen.
Of course minimum wage is to protect labor-intensive workers. It was supposed to provide the bare "minimum" for people to survive, fluctuating with market values on cost of living and so forth. Entry level positions pay close to minimum wage to allow for advancement without allowing corporations to burn and turn over thier employees. However if minimum wage doesn't increase with cost of living, current gas inflation as an example, the employees are still stuck with the extra cost with little hope for compensation. Because much of the capitolist economy has become run by shareholders and boards the little guy get's the pinch. Lower wages are less cost for the corps, therefore why should they change? Exploitation never went away, it just got sneakier and smarter.

kr@cker wrote:

And no that wasn't an act of charity on my part, he required money, I required a service. Charity is when I stop to help someone change a tire. Charity is abused and wasted on people who are victims of their own poor judgement, rather than people who actually need it like the children of fallen soldiers.
What in your opinion is a viable charity besides the "children of fallen soldiers"? I would expect our government to provide subsitance to the families of soldiers killed in action, in fact I know there are death benefits and ongoing support from the military community as well as government assistance. Should we nix that from our "socialist anarchal" programs? Charity isn't supposed to be a hand out, most charitable agencies have goals be it assiting the community, ie-united way, or simply providing meals for those who can't afford to eat. One of the greatest gifts we can give is our time, money or skills without request for repayment. It's up to us to either be enablers of those who have made past mistakes or providers of a second chance. I'd rather consider my assistance to the handicapped, homless, mentally ill and infirm to be beneficial rather than simply payment for services rendered.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563

IRONxWyvern wrote:

There are a myriad of reason why someone can't get a job, Chief among them is that they won't.
Despite the fact that this is wrong, what I said was people who can't get a job *that pays above minimum wage*

IRONxWyvern wrote:

Many Americans won't work because they don't have to.  Not all, but a decent number.
But those are typically the ones born into (relative) wealth, not the poor.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6653|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

IRONxWyvern wrote:

There are a myriad of reason why someone can't get a job, Chief among them is that they won't.
Despite the fact that this is wrong, what I said was people who can't get a job *that pays above minimum wage*

IRONxWyvern wrote:

Many Americans won't work because they don't have to.  Not all, but a decent number.
But those are typically the ones born into (relative) wealth, not the poor.
Ah yes, the ole......"I'm holding out for a managers postion" ploy
IRONxWyvern
Member
+14|6843|Atlanta, GA

lowing wrote:

Ah yes, the ole......"I'm holding out for a managers postion" ploy
Brilliant Lowing....+1 for you
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563

lowing wrote:

Ah yes, the ole......"I'm holding out for a managers postion" ploy
No, the ole "I don't have enough money to pay for a house and food for my children but I can't afford to quit and find a better paying job" ploy.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6653|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ah yes, the ole......"I'm holding out for a managers postion" ploy
No, the ole "I don't have enough money to pay for a house and food for my children but I can't afford to quit and find a better paying job" ploy.
and just exactly who's fault might that be??...........Don't tell me!!........Bush's right??

couple things wrong wit hthat........If you can't afford a house, or food for your kids, whatcha doin' havin' any??
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563

lowing wrote:

and just exactly who's fault might that be??...........Don't tell me!!........Bush's right??
No, more a long-term flaw in America (and most Western nations)

lowing wrote:

couple things wrong wit hthat........If you can't afford a house, or food for your kids, whatcha doin' havin' any??
So now only the rich can have kids?  Well that's *totally* fair.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6653|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

and just exactly who's fault might that be??...........Don't tell me!!........Bush's right??
No, more a long-term flaw in America (and most Western nations)

lowing wrote:

couple things wrong wit hthat........If you can't afford a house, or food for your kids, whatcha doin' havin' any??
So now only the rich can have kids?  Well that's *totally* fair.
No of course not, what is fair is let everyone else take care of your fucked up disfunctional family!!
.........are you suggesting that being a responsible parent and ACTUALLY take care of your family should NOT be required ????????? THis has to be the most rediculously fucked up statement you have made to date.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563

lowing wrote:

No of course not, what is fair is let everyone else take care of your fucked up disfunctional family!!
So being poor is fucked up and dysfunctional now?

lowing wrote:

.........are you suggesting that being a responsible parent and ACTUALLY take care of your family should NOT be required ?????????
No, I'm saying that they should be given the oppurtunity to make enough money to do so.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6653|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

No of course not, what is fair is let everyone else take care of your fucked up disfunctional family!!
So being poor is fucked up and dysfunctional now?

lowing wrote:

.........are you suggesting that being a responsible parent and ACTUALLY take care of your family should NOT be required ?????????
No, I'm saying that they should be given the oppurtunity to make enough money to do so.
Yes, bubbalo, if you can't take care of your kids, for whatever reason, it is dysfunctional.

They are given the opportunity to make money, you are given all the freedom America has to offer, to make as much or as little as you choose. Give up on this one.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563
You are among the most blinkered people I have ever spoken to.  Do you think people choose to live on the street?  Do you think people choose to not be able to pay for life-saving surgery for them or their kids?  Do you think people choose to have to either not eat or not get electricity?  Why don't you pull you head out of your ass for just a second, and take a look around.  Then maybe you'll realise that wealth is 10% effort and 90% luck of birth.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6653|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

You are among the most blinkered people I have ever spoken to.  Do you think people choose to live on the street?  Do you think people choose to not be able to pay for life-saving surgery for them or their kids?  Do you think people choose to have to either not eat or not get electricity?  Why don't you pull you head out of your ass for just a second, and take a look around.  Then maybe you'll realise that wealth is 10% effort and 90% luck of birth.
Sorry dipshit, the govt. has a ton of social services and college loans and grants for people that need help, when you lose your job there is unemployment to help you out. Hell, you can even get a damn house build for ya through habitat for humanity. you are saying that if these people WON'T take advantage of these programs that are already in place, then we should pay their way through life. Nope ain't gunna happen.

Ifthey choose NOT to get in school, ( cuz if they don't have a job then they have time to go to school right) or better themselves, then they will be left behind, and rightfully so.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6657|United States of America

Bubbalo wrote:

You are among the most blinkered people I have ever spoken to.  Do you think people choose to live on the street?  Do you think people choose to not be able to pay for life-saving surgery for them or their kids?  Do you think people choose to have to either not eat or not get electricity?  Why don't you pull you head out of your ass for just a second, and take a look around.  Then maybe you'll realise that wealth is 10% effort and 90% luck of birth.
I have lived on streets most my life, but also have been lucky enough to live on Avenues and the Blvd things too.  Street are the same as Avenues so I don't know why one would not like to be on a Street.  I think Seaseme Street kinda gave Streets a bad name with all those minority Muppets that lived their.

If you don't have electricity you probably couldn't microwave your dinner anyways, therefore I would always go for electricity especially if I had Cable T.V. or it was football season.  As far as only 90% luck of birth I would have to say that anyone faced with Electricity vs. Eatting are automatically in the 90% that are lucky enough to be born. 

Its a good thing I speak Ignorant Dumbass also, because people like Lowing can't even understand what your talking about.

Lowing is obviously blinkered.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6653|USA

Major_Spittle wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

You are among the most blinkered people I have ever spoken to.  Do you think people choose to live on the street?  Do you think people choose to not be able to pay for life-saving surgery for them or their kids?  Do you think people choose to have to either not eat or not get electricity?  Why don't you pull you head out of your ass for just a second, and take a look around.  Then maybe you'll realise that wealth is 10% effort and 90% luck of birth.
I have lived on streets most my life, but also have been lucky enough to live on Avenues and the Blvd things too.  Street are the same as Avenues so I don't know why one would not like to be on a Street.  I think Seaseme Street kinda gave Streets a bad name with all those minority Muppets that lived their.

If you don't have electricity you probably couldn't microwave your dinner anyways, therefore I would always go for electricity especially if I had Cable T.V. or it was football season.  As far as only 90% luck of birth I would have to say that anyone faced with Electricity vs. Eatting are automatically in the 90% that are lucky enough to be born. 

Its a good thing I speak Ignorant Dumbass also, because people like Lowing can't even understand what your talking about.

Lowing is obviously blinkered.
I am starting to realize, that HE doesn't even believe his BS. he is just havin' fun
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6657|United States of America

lowing wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

You are among the most blinkered people I have ever spoken to.  Do you think people choose to live on the street?  Do you think people choose to not be able to pay for life-saving surgery for them or their kids?  Do you think people choose to have to either not eat or not get electricity?  Why don't you pull you head out of your ass for just a second, and take a look around.  Then maybe you'll realise that wealth is 10% effort and 90% luck of birth.
I have lived on streets most my life, but also have been lucky enough to live on Avenues and the Blvd things too.  Street are the same as Avenues so I don't know why one would not like to be on a Street.  I think Seaseme Street kinda gave Streets a bad name with all those minority Muppets that lived their.

If you don't have electricity you probably couldn't microwave your dinner anyways, therefore I would always go for electricity especially if I had Cable T.V. or it was football season.  As far as only 90% luck of birth I would have to say that anyone faced with Electricity vs. Eatting are automatically in the 90% that are lucky enough to be born. 

Its a good thing I speak Ignorant Dumbass also, because people like Lowing can't even understand what your talking about.

Lowing is obviously blinkered.
I am starting to realize, that HE doesn't even believe his BS. he is just havin' fun
I got -1 karma for being racist toward "minority Muppets". lol

Damn those green Muppets can play Basket Ball, but from what I hear they aren't too smart compared to the Yellow ones.......  Yeah I'm a Muppet racist. 

They just call him Big Bird because he is Yellow, and you all know how them Yellow Muppets are hung.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6653|USA

Major_Spittle wrote:

lowing wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:


I have lived on streets most my life, but also have been lucky enough to live on Avenues and the Blvd things too.  Street are the same as Avenues so I don't know why one would not like to be on a Street.  I think Seaseme Street kinda gave Streets a bad name with all those minority Muppets that lived their.

If you don't have electricity you probably couldn't microwave your dinner anyways, therefore I would always go for electricity especially if I had Cable T.V. or it was football season.  As far as only 90% luck of birth I would have to say that anyone faced with Electricity vs. Eatting are automatically in the 90% that are lucky enough to be born. 

Its a good thing I speak Ignorant Dumbass also, because people like Lowing can't even understand what your talking about.

Lowing is obviously blinkered.
I am starting to realize, that HE doesn't even believe his BS. he is just havin' fun
I got -1 karma for being racist toward "minority Muppets". lol

Damn those green Muppets can play Basket Ball, but from what I hear they aren't too smart compared to the Yellow ones.......  Yeah I'm a Muppet racist. 

They just call him Big Bird because he is Yellow, and you all know how them Yellow Muppets are hung.
for being a facist pig dog with a small dick and even smaller brain. <-----here is my latest - karma lol. I am thinking, definately, democrat.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6657|United States of America
Here is my last few Karma comments:

Que tu solo abres el hocico para decir pendejadas ? 
Es la pendejada mas grande que he oido 
minority Muppets????? 4 bein a KKK member 
Hijo de tu puta madre 
Ve y chinga a tu madre pendejo 
Fuck you 
Ann Coulter is an ugly whore

I wish I could understand Spanish to know what they are saying, but I never took spanish in high school because the only people I heard speaking spanish were doing unimportant jobs that I am not willing to do, so I figured I will never need to speak to them because they would never have anything important to say.

The only other time I wish I knew spanish was during that taco bell commercials with the dog.  I swear he was telling the Mexicans to run across our boarder or something in spanish, but who knows????
LordDragonclaw
RPK-74 Whore
+26|6584
Liberals need to get over themselves with their bullshit. They have no solution to anything to they critisize the president in everything he does but they cant do crap on their own. You retarded commie liberals want to destroy america but you just cant seem to do anything right. I swear if we had a democrat president we would be all fuckin nuked by the terrorists because hed pull us out of the middle east and let them threaten us and bomb us until we all died.
skratch-x
Member
+25|6639|NY, USA
Hey I don't have an actual response to anything anyone said, so I'm just going to make blanket statements and vomit textbook conservative rhetoric at everyone!
lolz zogm teh teririoris!1t!  teh luibrerals aer h8ing @USA!!  safe us from teh treror!
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6770

LordDragonclaw wrote:

Liberals need to get over themselves with their bullshit. They have no solution to anything to they critisize the president in everything he does but they cant do crap on their own. You retarded commie liberals want to destroy america but you just cant seem to do anything right. I swear if we had a democrat president we would be all fuckin nuked by the terrorists because hed pull us out of the middle east and let them threaten us and bomb us until we all died.
Cut the generalised anti-Liberal spew, its getting boring and it makes you look like a knob head.
Vampira_NB
Trying is the first step to failing
+76|6676|Canada Eh?
I'm liberalish, I have liberal morals but the liberal political parties in Canada are too conservative for my taste, I'm more of a Socialist and believe that Marx was a genius, TAKE THAT YOU COMMIE BASHERS!

and as for Liberals being racists? LMAO What kinda bullshit was that? There's bound to be some, but don't generalise unless you are truly informed and are not an ignorant conservative pushing your views.

Last edited by Vampira_NB (2006-05-25 19:02:59)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6551|Southeastern USA

Bubbalo wrote:

Oh yes.  Because those who can't get a job that pays more than minimum wage don't deserve medical care.  Totally.
If you have a job that pays minimum wage or anything close, you should be listed as a dependent of your parents, and covered by their insurance. Totally.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6563
And if they die?  Or, shock horror, can't affored insurance?

For a single male in zip code 10021 (New York), monthly insurance costs $365.50 (according to eHealth.  Minimum wage is $5.15 an hour (according to US Department of Labor.  That means that, assuming an 8 hour work day 5 days a week, you end up with $824.  That means that you spend 45% of your monthly earnings on health insurance.  If we assume $5 a day for food (which I think is *much* less than needed), that takes $140.  That leaves you with $318.50.  With this you must:  Find somewhere to live, buy clothes, pay electricity/water/etc., and have enough left over to actually be able to enjoy life.  Oh yeah, that's an easy existence.  How I wish I lived like that.

I short, you're all either blinkered or dumber than I thought.

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-05-26 08:16:04)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6551|Southeastern USA

Vampira_NB wrote:

I'm liberalish, I have liberal morals but the liberal political parties in Canada are too conservative for my taste, I'm more of a Socialist and believe that Marx was a genius, TAKE THAT YOU COMMIE BASHERS!

and as for Liberals being racists? LMAO What kinda bullshit was that? There's bound to be some, but don't generalise unless you are truly informed and are not an ignorant conservative pushing your views.
It was democratic governors that locked blacks out of schools, Strom Thurmonds presidential campaign was based on segregation, Robert "sheets" Byrd  Senator of West Virginia (i think) is a member of the kkk, Ray Nagin vowed to rebuild New Orleans as a "chocolate city", when GWB nominated Alberto Gonzales to the court DNC e-mails were leaked stating that "he is a successful hispanic and would not be beneficial to our agenda", the DNC tried to install another white Landreau (sp?) as in Mary Landreau the gov of La. as mayor of N.O. b/c they thought they didnt have enough white voters in the city, Howard Dean stated "The RNC couldn't get this many minorities in a convention room unless it was the hotel staff", maybe not all libs are racists, just the ones in power.

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