BF2S Forums Operation Fast and Furious and Subsequent Coverup.

Pissing on dead bodies is not a minor scandal. Its the tip of a big icerberg, and indicative of a general attitude.

A govt department breaking the law in an effort to manipulate the laws passed by the govt? I'd say thats also a big deal.

That one agent happened to be killed by a gun which happened to be involved in a sting, when many times that number are being freely traded - meh.

Spearhead wrote:

Here's another perspective.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2 … ous-truth/

So.. let me get this straight.  The DOJ could have prosecuted, but they didn't, in order to funnel guns into Mexico, so they could later get even tougher laws?  So, in other words, they should have enforced gun laws, but they didn't, because there was a conspiracy to get tougher gun laws?

Meet Agent Agent John Dodson.
They got their orders from somewhere.

Spearhead wrote:

I guess what my point is, is that these guns which did "walk" make up a miniscule fraction of the guns which cross the border every year.  The same amount, its estimated, that cross the border DAILY.  I just find it hard to believe that this is some kind of earth shattering, historically significant scandal.  Sure, one agent died, and the guns did "walk", but the alternative would have been to arrest thousands of people on gun charges.  The very same people who are fueling this scandal (NRA) have a direct monetary incentive to ensure that this kind of trafficking continues... and they have a history of being rabidly against the ATF since it was created.

Miniscule fraction?  So no biggie then right? 

You're missing the point and have marginalized the life of a Federal Agent, who was attempting to make the border safe.  That's sad.  The NRA does not endorse this type of gun sales.  And you know it.  Moreover, how is the NRA fueling this scandal?  I have a feeling that most would want the ATF to enforce the laws on the books instead of making them up as they go along.  Yea, the atf takes the guns from good/bad us citizens, but forcing shop owners to sell to those they would have turned away, with the knowledge that bad people were going to get and use these guns?  I'll tell you that's an aggressive and risky agenda for a career government employee.  There was more to this, even upper management had specific instruction.   Those agents that spoke out were reassigned. To those that carried the water and held the line, reward.

Spearhead wrote:

I just don't buy into it.  Is it a minor scandal, like marines pissing on dead bodies, sure.  Is it Watergate?  Do you guys really think this is the equivalent of fucking wiretapping and sabotaging the GOP convention, and then paying a million dollars out of pocket to cover it up?   

^^ 13rin.  So Obama plotted to have his own agents killed, BY NOT ENFORCING THE VERY LAWS YOU ARE SAYING HE IS CONSPIRING TO ENFORCE?  I see a lot of foaming at the mouth in this thread.  Maybe that's why it's only 3 pages long.

This is not a minor scandal.  This isn't even in the same ballpark of marines pissing on the enemy they've killed.   

I'd argue why this thread is only 3 pages long is for it has been briefly touched upon by the mainstream media let alone buy this left of center group here.  I forgot...  How many people died in Watergate?  Million dollar coverup?  I suspect a lot more TAXPAYER money has been spent on this one.  Nixon resigned for having a portion of a recorded conversation go missing.  I'll be the first to say this is no watergate.  This is worse.  The Feds were supplying the bad guys with the guns that kill your brethren and an uncountable amount of Mexican citizens.  This wasn't a cartel sting.  There were other motivations.

Of course ATF agents didn't want to see anyone die.   Of course, I want to believe that the administration didn't want to see any Americans hurt.  And if that were truly the case the obvious is reinforced, the DOJ is incompetent at minimum.  But seeing how as the DOJ has stalled/mislead on all information requests, that really raises the likelihood that this was a back door maneuver to shift and enact a radical public policy.   But I seriously doubt holder/bam gave it any thought (loss of life).  I'll even go as far as to speculate that if they did (consider loss) it would only bolster their mission statement.  

But lets assume the good guys are really the good guys... What would be the excuse for the DOJ not to prosecute?  They were going after the cartels?  That would be news to the Mexican government.

Further, why would holder deny any knowledge, and make several false statements as to the operations origin (he blamed bush, too)?  Why would the DOJ stall on releasing information and documents?  He's stalled/misled congress to the point of forcing a contempt vote.  He even ran to the bamster for 'executive privileged'.  What does the bamster have to gain by using it to protect his boy?  

Foaming at the mouth?  Bullshit.  Holding the government accountable?  Like I could do that.   At this point, I do believe that holder either green lit this tragedy or it was his brain child.  I also believe that the bamster knew about it... Hell, he may have even had a hand in its conception.  I also think that this was going to be used to enact tighter gun sales laws and/or bans.  How long had hillary been claiming the US leaking guns into mexico?

CONTEMPT.

About 100 Dems decided to go play outside, while the rest of the House did their job...great example of leadership!  You would think as the duly elected representatives of the public, they would at least vote.

Between 300 and 600 Mexicans died as a result of F&F and one good border patrol agent, that we know about.

Whomever is responsible should face a firing squad.

mtb0minime wrote:

I don't always like Congress, but man do I love this.

Guy needs to be removed from any position of authority.  Remember this is the same guy who wanted to hand CIA operatives (and WH administrations) over to international tribunals.   The same guy who ignored the black panther party voter intimidation case.  This is the loon that also wanted to try that terrorist fuck in a Manhattan Federal Court, affording him in essence the rights of a US citizen.  Shortly thereafter he justifies killing actual US citizens via drone strikes without due process...  What the fuck type of rational is used there?   How anyone who has a shred of common sense and isn't outraged by this kind of shit is beyond belief to me. 

RAIMIUS wrote:

About 100 Dems decided to go play outside, while the rest of the House did their job...great example of leadership!  You would think as the duly elected representatives of the public, they would at least vote.

I would hope too... but Meh...  R's have done it too.  But it isn't like they fled the state to avoid a session. Nah, they've circled the wagons on this on and for stupid reasons.  I'm not saying that a one side or the other could do a better job, but damn... When there's a guy like this running around, it's time to talk a step back.

Reciprocity wrote:

aluminum foil helmets: check.

Tinfoil hat? Hahahahaha.  You must have an monocle for a bellybutton to see it then.  Push hard, then watch.  He even goes as far as to use the term "brainwash".  This guy is about as anti 2nd amendment as it comes.  It's sad too as he was a fucking US district attorney.  Wow holder, way to support and uphold the constitution, dick.

Yea, I couldn't ever see him trying to pull some shit like f&f. :eyeroll:

oh wait...

Here he is in 2009 talking about banning "assault weapons" cause cartels are getting them. 
Video for the challenged:


Yea, it's just a giant fucking coincidence.  Dude didn't know about any of this shit going on though..... 

Thanks for playing.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Raimius wrote:

Also, the NRA-ILA (political organization) does not benefit from gun smuggling.

It does indirectly, as its trade members sell more guns.

That's a stretch.

The WH says Holder will not be prosecuted.  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- … -contempt/
Looks like a massive conflict of interest to me.

Dilbert_X wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

ILA stands for "Institute of Legislative Action."  It is not a trade organization.  That would be something more like the NSSF.
You are awarded no points.  Would you like to play again?

Wiki wrote:

The Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the lobbying arm of the National Rifle Association of America.[

Bloomberg wrote:

From 2004 to 2010, the group's revenue from fundraising - including gifts from gun makers who benefit from its political activism - grew twice as fast as its income from members' dues, according to NRA tax returns.

Hush now

GTFO with your straw man argument here.  It's lame and off topic.

But hell, start an NRA vs. Asshats like you thread, and I'd be happy to indulge.

** carve that grip!

Last edited by 13rin (2012-06-30 22:20:38)

13rin, you seem to know exactly what the fuck you're talking about. I agree with ATG as well though, the corrupt dipshits of this country need to face a firing squad. Can't fucking believe these people sleep at night.

imagine that, a dipshit swiss teenager who lies to the marines agrees with yall.  hope that helps reinforce your points

yes, dilbert, stay on topic.  the real issue here is that barack hussein obama personally handed guns to mexican cartels in hopes of causing the extra havoc (that only an extra two thousand guns amongst hundreds of thousands or millions could cause) necessary to make american citizens amiable towards new or renewed gun regulations.

the theory is nearly ironclad, except for one problem:  americans don't give a shit about dead mexicans.  we don't care about one dead mexican or an entire fucking mountain of dead mexicans, no matter who killed them with what weapons.

eleven bravo wrote:

imagine that, a dipshit swiss teenager who lies to the marines agrees with yall.  hope that helps reinforce your points

thatsracist.gif