The_Mob_Returns
Member
+72|6961|Indianapolis, IN
Unfortunately my Internet was not working so I could not post an article about Americans and not necessarily their stupidness but at least their ignorance.

Continental Drifter -- The Arrogance of Ignorance
Wednesday, January 18, 2006
Industryweek.com
by: Mark Gottlieb

Your livelihood and your future are both in peril.

The threat you face derives not from any external factors that may affect your company.  Instead, it comes from your own employees.

The deadliest business hazard of our time is the result of a sea change in the American approach to education that occurred early in the 1970s.  Across the United States, conventional education standards were tossed out the window, replaced with feel-good theories like "whole-language learning" that emphasized personal fulfillment over the accumulation of hard knowledge.  As a result, we now have two generations of men and women who expect gold stars not for succeeding, but simply for trying.

And, sometimes, merely for showing up.

In Great Britain, even primary school students can name all the monarchs of England.  How many American children can name the capital of their own state?

In India, the study of mathematics is practically a religion.  In the United States, how many retail clerks can make change without relying on a calculator?

In Germany, vocational education is a rigorous and honorable pursuit, producing highly qualified workers and tradesmen.  In the U.S.A., people actually boast about their inability to deal with anything mechanical.

But sheer stupidity is not the greatest danger presented by the current crop of blank slates.  It is the arrogance bred of ignorance that constitutes an unparalleled descent into goofiness.

In the long-dead past, incompetents generally recognized their own incapacity and behaved accordingly.  Today, every jackass sees himself as a genius, and every fool fancies herself a philosopher.

Once, a young colleague at a major firm accosted me in tones of confusion and desperation.

"Mark! Mark!" she called as I walked past her office door. "When was World War II?"

I thought at first that she was joking, but, alas, she was not.  The deadliest global conflict in human history had somehow escaped her notice.  Yet if I had asked if she honestly believed she deserved her B.A. and felt qualified to perform her job, she would have been gravely insulted and likely kicked me until I was dead.

Like the pod people of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the arrogantly ignorant appear at first glance as normal as you or me.  But beware.

The most profound risk they represent springs not from their cluelessness, but from their inability to recognize their own limitations.  Such blind hubris can lead to monumental errors of judgment, grotesque mistakes, and the refusal to accept -- despite a mountain of evidence -- that the strategy they are pursuing may be leading your organization off a cliff.  When people like that are in you employ, it is you, not they, who suffer the consequences.

These days, the arrogance of ignorance is so pervasive that I feel confident in making a small wager: Ten bucks says that the worst offenders will read these words and wonder, "Who is this joker talking about?"

If characters like that work for your company -- brother, you're in for a world of hurt.

-----------------------------------------------

I have been looking for this article to post, but alas the thread was closed.
This is meant as an honest post about the arrogance and ignorance of workers in the US.

What do you think of the article?
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6933|San Francisco
It's like a modern day version of Alexis de Tocqueville!
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6871|949

yes, that darned de Tocqueville and his warnings of individualism.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6975|Salt Lake City

There is a lot of that.  I'm probably going to get lambasted for this, and have even drawn criticism from co-workers, but I've thought for quite some time that the US needed to standardize core curriculum subjects at the federal level.  Where I'm at that would never fly because every wannabe with political aspirations want to control whatever domain he/she can.  They claim they don't want cookie cutter education, and they know how to best teach whatever subject is in question.

I'm not saying everything has to be standardized, but for math, English, and science, I'm for standardizing.  History, social studies, and similar subjects, I'm not so sure about.  Other curriculum can be run however that districts board sees fit.
The_Mob_Returns
Member
+72|6961|Indianapolis, IN
I kind of agree with you there.  If we all learn from a standard everyone will be a little bit more prepared for college when they expect you to know certain things.  (+1 for you Bomb)
Indiana University did a study nationwide and found that 24% of students entereing college from high school were unprepared acedemically.  That is a staggering stat.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6801
In Aus it's standardised at the state level, but curriculums are similar, and as such scores can easily be converted into another state's system.  At primary school there tends to be more curriculum on a local level (e.g. Victorians learn about the Eureka stockade) moving on to late primary school/early high school looking at things on a more national level, and a global level towards the end.
SineNomine
Panzerblitz
+37|6962|SPARTA
          +1 for you for being right! even in our society: it's not the survival of the best, it is the survival of the best adapted. you don't have to be clever when you have other "qualities" ,whatever they may be, which overweight the cleverness of other people.
i can feel with you, it's the same here in germany on the universities: dumb as hell but hte assistent of the professor.             
           
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6954|US
I agree.  I have seen people who claim to be experts in a topic miss basic facts about it.  A guy I know was talking about WWII aircraft.  (He claimed to know a lot about them, and I claim the same thing.)  He made an awful statement about one aircraft.  My other friend and I both called BS immediately.  I get so angry when people are so full of themselves that they cannot admit that they do not know something about everything.

Knowing when to say, "I don't really know" is a valuable skill.

As for giving credit for effort, that goes both ways.  People do need to be held to basic standards, but sometimes grading for effort is needed.  Take P.E. class for example, I would give much more credit to an asthmatic who runs their heart out than an athlete who barely tries...even if the athlete runs faster.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

OP:

While this is a valid issue, I think the writer took a bit of a dismal view of America. Not everyone has been brainwashed into stubborn stupidity by public education.

I wonder if said writer, if confronted, could name all the presidents of the United States.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-05-23 22:49:20)

4_Phucsache
Property of BF2s©
+112|6822|Brisbane Australia
My personal feelings on the aforementioned article are such that if we looked closely at any country we would find a 'similar' situation.
Bubbalo is perfectly correct in his statement of the Australian school system and having been a RAAF brat all my life before entering the Army myself I was schooled in many places throughout Australia as well as Penang and Los Angeles.
I personally found that the American system of schooling was below the Australian standard in core subjects (maths, English Sciences etc) however the American schooling system tends to lean more towards internal history creating a great deal of patriotism within that country. This I fear is something that until recent times has been sadly lacking in much of Australia's youth culture.

I'm sure if we sat down and had an in depth look into the schooling systems of many other countries we would find similar inadequacies and strengths.

I often find myself wondering if it is more of a question of what all of our schools are teaching today and a question of Political Correctness gone wrong.
In todays school environment (based on what I see in Australia) a child/student is not given what I consider to be a measurable grade they are simply marked 'satisfactory' or 'not satisfactory', this system was introduced to stop students from feeling "undue pressure due to competitiveness for grades". Honestly WTF is that about. How does one measure ones performance and gains or losses in their work?
Also in todays schools students have a tendency to come and go as they please whilst teachers and schools state that there is nothing they can do to make students attend school. Now I'm only 32 years old but if I tried to pull that crap at school my parents would be contacted for a "please explain" and i would have had my ass handed to me in a sling.

I know I'm slightly off topic here but i don't think it is a question of any one particular country being arrogant or ignorant. If we all have a serious look we all have the same problems looming.
The_Mob_Returns
Member
+72|6961|Indianapolis, IN
Ramius:
I see your point about P.E. and agree with you.  Such as in our keyboarding class, it used to be that you must attain a certain speed (but once people started losing Valedictorian over an A- in keyboarding it stopped), but now the teacher has you type once and then everytime you are tested after that you must raise your speed by 5wpm.  I think I started at 50wpm and now am up to 75wpm. 

Scud:
I agree with you, I think the author was pointing out an obvious flaw in some public eductaion, and because the international eye seems always to be on us, it was easy to apply the flaw to the US school systems when in reality it can be placed on many countires to different degrees.
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6998|MA, USA
The problem with cirricula in this country is that everyone has a political agenda they want to cram down kids' throats, to ensure they learn the 'right' information.  Obviously this isn't as big a problem with Math and Science, but it's killer in English and History. 

I have spoken with my Cousin's kids, and they haven't even been taught about the Revolutionary war and the founding fathers; but they can tell you more about Martin Luther King Jr. than you ever wanted to know.  That's fine and dandy, but I don't think it should replace the fundamental political history of the country!  Clearly someone is hijacking the system for their own purposes.

If we formulate a standard cirriculum, we have to ensure two things:  1) Keep politics out of it.  2)  Keep the teachers unions out of it (or is that redundant?).

While I'll be the first to admit that many of todays young people can't find their ass with both hands when it comes to topics in English, History, and Geography...some CAN.  Is it, then, just a question of motivation?  Where did the one's who aren't woefully uninformed learn what they know?

Last edited by whittsend (2006-05-24 12:59:00)

The_Mob_Returns
Member
+72|6961|Indianapolis, IN
Whittsend, and others:
I agree that a lot of it is motivation.  I know the only way I keep a near 4.0 GPA is from motivation.  But I think some of that motivation comes from your parents or guardians.  If they do not hold you accountable for your actions, then you have no outside motivation and if you do not care about your grades then you have no motivation to succeed.  I know many kids in my school could be 4.0 students if they applied themselves and tried, but they do not.
Bottom line: Parents do affect your motivation.  Yes I know some my force it on you, so you would rebel but for the most part a little incentive is always a good thing.  My incentive is to do the best I can for the glory of God.  I really do not need any other motivation.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6954|US
Whittsend, I have to admit that I learned most of my history through either the History Channel or books.  However, I learned quite a bit of geography in school.  English is split between parents and school.  I would say that public education can give you a fair amount of knowledge, if you care to learn.  Unfortunately, a lot of students do not care.  I am in favor of federalized standards, but NCLB is just screwing over schools.  NCLB may sound good on paper, but, in reality, it only causes problems. (sorry, that is a little off-topic)
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|7011|Atlanta, GA USA

The_Mob_Returns wrote:

Bottom line: Parents do affect your motivation.  Yes I know some my force it on you, so you would rebel but for the most part a little incentive is always a good thing.  My incentive is to do the best I can for the glory of God.  I really do not need any other motivation.
I totally agree with this.  I think parents are the most important factor in how well a kid does in school.  If the parents don't give a shit whether their son does well in school and actually learns shit, he more than likely won't either.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6975|Salt Lake City

whittsend wrote:

The problem with cirricula in this country is that everyone has a political agenda they want to cram down kids' throats, to ensure they learn the 'right' information.  Obviously this isn't as big a problem with Math and Science, but it's killer in English and History. 

I have spoken with my Cousin's kids, and they haven't even been taught about the Revolutionary war and the founding fathers; but they can tell you more about Martin Luther King Jr. than you ever wanted to know.  That's fine and dandy, but I don't think it should replace the fundamental political history of the country!  Clearly someone is hijacking the system for their own purposes.

If we formulate a standard cirriculum, we have to ensure two things:  1) Keep politics out of it.  2)  Keep the teachers unions out of it (or is that redundant?).

While I'll be the first to admit that many of todays young people can't find their ass with both hands when it comes to topics in English, History, and Geography...some CAN.  Is it, then, just a question of motivation?  Where did the one's who aren't woefully uninformed learn what they know?
I agree, except they are trying to do it to science too.  All the "Intelligent Design" people want it taught in science classes.

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