when is the next vote anyway
Next year.
dragons!
Woo!
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
There's no reason he shouldn't be suspended, given the seriousness of what he's been accused of and the disruption its causing.Jaekus wrote:
Yeah true. Also I should've said "inquiry".AussieReaper wrote:
That removes the "innocent until proven guilty" thing though.Jaekus wrote:
It's this sort of thing that makes me hate politics.
Suspend the guy until the enquiry is done, go from there. In the meantime get the job done.
If this sort of shennanigans happened in the workplace heads would roll.
Point is though that there are far more important matters to attend to than Thomson. I'm not saying sweep in under the carpet at all, but surely it doesn't need 24/7 attention? I guess the media loves jumping onto these sorts of bandwagons.
In any other organisation he would have been fired about four years ago.
Fuck Israel
Has it been proven he's done anything wrong?
Depends what you mean by 'proven'.
An enquiry has concluded that he has. In the real world he would have been suspended on the spot and the enquiry would have taken a few days, maybe a week, and then he would have been fired.
This shit is ridiculous, that its still ongoing means the media can play with it 24/7 - thats not the fault of the media, they'll play with anything at the top of the news list until something else comes along.
Criticising the media for running a story which the govt should have dealt with years ago is bizarre.
An enquiry has concluded that he has. In the real world he would have been suspended on the spot and the enquiry would have taken a few days, maybe a week, and then he would have been fired.
This shit is ridiculous, that its still ongoing means the media can play with it 24/7 - thats not the fault of the media, they'll play with anything at the top of the news list until something else comes along.
Criticising the media for running a story which the govt should have dealt with years ago is bizarre.
Fuck Israel
No.Jaekus wrote:
Has it been proven he's done anything wrong?
The constitutional protections for MPs are there for a reason.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
The reason isn't to allow them to commit crimes though.
Fuck Israel
You're thinking about it wrong, the constitutional protections aren't in there for Thomson's sake, it's there to prevent democracy from being undermined.
Take Tony Abbott's self righteous bollocks that as PM he would refuse to accept Thomson's vote. It is not in the best interest of democracy to allow the PM or anyone to refuse a vote from a sitting MP. What's to say they couldn't refuse to accept a deciding vote on an issue because it went the way they didn't want it to?
Additionally, and more importantly in my opinion, standing Thomson down before any charges have been laid or anything has been proven opens the door for accusations alone being enough to unseat an elected official. It sets a very dangerous precedent to suggest this. Baseless accusations are frequent enough in politics as they are, I can imagine how popular they'd be if they alone were enough to strip an MP, (and an electorate,) of their political representation.
You're right to say that in a company if any executive was this deep in scandal they would probably be at least suspended, (with pay one hopes,) until it is sorted out. But it is different in Parliament and rightfully so, Thomson doesn't just represent himself, he is the MP for Dobell so he represents all of them too. Is it fair for them to go without any representation because of alleged indiscretions of their MP? Politicians may be guilty until proven innocent in the public eye but Parliament can't just throw an elected official aside because they're making them look bad.
Also Fair Work Australia's report is only one thing, it isn't enough to convict Thomson let alone charge him with anything. As the Department of Public Prosecutions said, there was no body of evidence; there wasn't enough for them to make a move. For all the allegations levelled at Thomson there is very little in the way of backing them up. He was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion, public opinion driven by the Coalition, Fairfax and News Limited. Hardly an impartial jury. I'm not saying Thomson is innocent, in fact I reckon he's just creepy enough to spend others' money on prostitutes and his own election campaign. But any truth in the matter isn't out yet, all we have is the accepted truth that, hey, he probably did it so let's throw the book at him and be done with the issue. Unfortunately for some this is not an option.
They've made a real cock of things and the Coalition is recognising this with their surprising Newspoll drop today - I think even Barnaby Joyce came out and said the way the Coalition handled the Thomson matter was poor.
Anyway it's a big topic. In short the media has fucked things up, there isn't enough to charge/convict Thomson so he stays until an investigation pulls something up. Or doesn't. Either way Thomson won't win his seat at the next election, even if he's innocent his political career is ruined. Until then the only way the matter will get raised in the house is if the Opposition brings it up again and if they do it'll just be because Tony Abbott's repertoire of things to talk about is shamefully small.
Take Tony Abbott's self righteous bollocks that as PM he would refuse to accept Thomson's vote. It is not in the best interest of democracy to allow the PM or anyone to refuse a vote from a sitting MP. What's to say they couldn't refuse to accept a deciding vote on an issue because it went the way they didn't want it to?
Additionally, and more importantly in my opinion, standing Thomson down before any charges have been laid or anything has been proven opens the door for accusations alone being enough to unseat an elected official. It sets a very dangerous precedent to suggest this. Baseless accusations are frequent enough in politics as they are, I can imagine how popular they'd be if they alone were enough to strip an MP, (and an electorate,) of their political representation.
You're right to say that in a company if any executive was this deep in scandal they would probably be at least suspended, (with pay one hopes,) until it is sorted out. But it is different in Parliament and rightfully so, Thomson doesn't just represent himself, he is the MP for Dobell so he represents all of them too. Is it fair for them to go without any representation because of alleged indiscretions of their MP? Politicians may be guilty until proven innocent in the public eye but Parliament can't just throw an elected official aside because they're making them look bad.
Also Fair Work Australia's report is only one thing, it isn't enough to convict Thomson let alone charge him with anything. As the Department of Public Prosecutions said, there was no body of evidence; there wasn't enough for them to make a move. For all the allegations levelled at Thomson there is very little in the way of backing them up. He was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion, public opinion driven by the Coalition, Fairfax and News Limited. Hardly an impartial jury. I'm not saying Thomson is innocent, in fact I reckon he's just creepy enough to spend others' money on prostitutes and his own election campaign. But any truth in the matter isn't out yet, all we have is the accepted truth that, hey, he probably did it so let's throw the book at him and be done with the issue. Unfortunately for some this is not an option.
They've made a real cock of things and the Coalition is recognising this with their surprising Newspoll drop today - I think even Barnaby Joyce came out and said the way the Coalition handled the Thomson matter was poor.
Anyway it's a big topic. In short the media has fucked things up, there isn't enough to charge/convict Thomson so he stays until an investigation pulls something up. Or doesn't. Either way Thomson won't win his seat at the next election, even if he's innocent his political career is ruined. Until then the only way the matter will get raised in the house is if the Opposition brings it up again and if they do it'll just be because Tony Abbott's repertoire of things to talk about is shamefully small.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
A seat in Parliament shouldn't be a free-ride for 3-4 years - Thomsons constituency is already unrepresented because he's blatantly corrupt and spending his time dicking around instead of working on their behalf.
There's more to this than a single accusation, and there's plenty of evidence to go with it. It should have been dealt with already.
There's more to this than a single accusation, and there's plenty of evidence to go with it. It should have been dealt with already.
Fuck Israel
The evidence is far from conclusive, what's more is that Thomson has been able to give any official defence save his speech in Parliament. The Fair Work Australia report contained no body of evidence so the Director of Public Prosecutions couldn't make a move - it was a weak report, especially given the time it took. What's more is that the Health Services Union is as crooked as a dog's hind leg with accusations and subterfuge going on in every direction. Not saying I believe him but I do see a possible scenario where someone would be trying to actively sabotage Thomson but either way he has a right to defend himself against allegations. Just not in Parliament where the whole issue is wasting everyone's time.
The reason everyone is so sick of the matter is that the Opposition has been trying to use it to gain power and attacking it like a stoner attacks a Big Mac. While it seems like Thomson is as guilty as sin given the coverage of this mess people are all too willing to call for the guy to be thrown out. But that opens a messy door that no-one wants open where a character assassination is enough to remove an elected official and MPs are forced to stand down at the first sign of controversy, not just from any portfolios they might have, (which is reasonable,) but from having any standing in the house at all.
Take this case out of the media, get it properly investigated, carry on as normal until there is something substantial, if there is then try it and throw Thomson out if he's guilty.
You're right though, it should have been dealt with already. The handling of the matter by all involved has been shit.
The reason everyone is so sick of the matter is that the Opposition has been trying to use it to gain power and attacking it like a stoner attacks a Big Mac. While it seems like Thomson is as guilty as sin given the coverage of this mess people are all too willing to call for the guy to be thrown out. But that opens a messy door that no-one wants open where a character assassination is enough to remove an elected official and MPs are forced to stand down at the first sign of controversy, not just from any portfolios they might have, (which is reasonable,) but from having any standing in the house at all.
Take this case out of the media, get it properly investigated, carry on as normal until there is something substantial, if there is then try it and throw Thomson out if he's guilty.
You're right though, it should have been dealt with already. The handling of the matter by all involved has been shit.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Anyone see the childish display before? Craig Thomson voted with the Coalition. Chris Pyne tried to leave the chamber to negate the vote but was forbidden by the Speaker who ordered the door be locked. Tony Abbott also tried to flee. How pitiful. Thomson suggested Abbott cross the floor and vote with Labor if he really wanted to negate his vote. He didn't.
This is only an issue because the Coalition wants it to be. It was a minor vote that the Coalition would have won regardless of what Thomson did but they wanted to hold there little "I'm not playing with him game".
This is only an issue because the Coalition wants it to be. It was a minor vote that the Coalition would have won regardless of what Thomson did but they wanted to hold there little "I'm not playing with him game".
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
links to a video? I haven't heard this.
Sorry to link to the Telegraph but this is hilarious - best video I could find for the time being.
Abbott claims the Government was pulling a stunt. Could be but it is also the custom of independents to vote down gag motions which was what Thomson was doing. Either way it's another example of how terribly the Coalition is showing themselves to be in this whole matter.
Abbott claims the Government was pulling a stunt. Could be but it is also the custom of independents to vote down gag motions which was what Thomson was doing. Either way it's another example of how terribly the Coalition is showing themselves to be in this whole matter.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
what a farce
dumbest shit ever. how can you not accept an MPs vote?
lolol
Political cartoonists will have a field day with this one.
Whoop de do, what did it take, a few seconds of parliamentary time?
In the meantime Thomson has undeservedly been collecting his pay and bogging down government for how long?
In the meantime Thomson has undeservedly been collecting his pay and bogging down government for how long?
Fuck Israel
Who's fault is it that Thomson has been bogging down Parliament's time though? Yesterday's display again seemed to suggest it's the Opposition's childish antics that have had the main impact.
Nothing has been proven in the Thomson case yet. I thought I had explained that. I also explained the ramifications of elected officials being thrown out of office on accusations alone.
Anyway, Labor Government gets 100 points taken off them for the groan-worthy and predictable quip "Abbott can run but he can't hide."
Nothing has been proven in the Thomson case yet. I thought I had explained that. I also explained the ramifications of elected officials being thrown out of office on accusations alone.
Anyway, Labor Government gets 100 points taken off them for the groan-worthy and predictable quip "Abbott can run but he can't hide."
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
this is what happens when you have a bunch of ex cons being MPs
TROLOLOLOLOLOL WE GREW UP IN PLAINS YOU GREW UP IN CHAINS
TROLOLOLOLOLOL WE GREW UP IN PLAINS YOU GREW UP IN CHAINS
And another 100 points off for Greg Combet trying to sing in Question Time.Ty wrote:
Who's fault is it that Thomson has been bogging down Parliament's time though? Yesterday's display again seemed to suggest it's the Opposition's childish antics that have had the main impact.
Nothing has been proven in the Thomson case yet. I thought I had explained that. I also explained the ramifications of elected officials being thrown out of office on accusations alone.
Anyway, Labor Government gets 100 points taken off them for the groan-worthy and predictable quip "Abbott can run but he can't hide."
That was... odd.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I wondered why First Dog tweeted "no greg #qt". As always it was on the TV at work but no sound, maybe they'll play excerpts from it tomorrow.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon