DAST Chat

2012-04-11 19:53:06

#5651

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5808|London, England

my degree says 'pimp'

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-04-11 19:59:31

#5652

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|6036

Spark wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yet again macbeth isn't listening to people with legal educations because oh-he's-been-in-a-psych ward.

we're not debating whether or not the guy is nuts. he's nuts alright. but he could think rationally and clearly enough during his episode to condemn him.
even i don't have a legal education and it seems pretty obvious to me

Very obvious. The legal systems of the U.K., Aus, 50 U.S. states and Norway must be interchangeable.

2012-04-11 20:00:27

#5653

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5709|foggy bottom

more or less. common law

Tu Stultus Es

2012-04-11 20:09:26

#5654

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6947

where's the mental health thread? i never thought the death of anyone would bust me up this bad, but

2012-04-11 20:14:35

#5655

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6921

Macbeth wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yet again macbeth isn't listening to people with legal educations because oh-he's-been-in-a-psych ward.
A few prelaw classes count as a legal education and cover the entire span of criminal and civil law.

i did 2 years of pretty heavy law. i had an interest in it. one thing for sure that you know is european definitions of criminal defenses - especially for homicide. insanity isn't one i'd forget. not saying i could advise you on your divorce or go work for a corporation tomorrow as an attorney but i know what constitutes the defense of insanity.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-11 20:14:45)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2012-04-11 20:22:35

#5656

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|6036

Uzique wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yet again macbeth isn't listening to people with legal educations because oh-he's-been-in-a-psych ward.
A few prelaw classes count as a legal education and cover the entire span of criminal and civil law.
i did 2 years of pretty heavy law. i had an interest in it. one thing for sure that you know is european definitions of criminal defenses - especially for homicide. insanity isn't one i'd forget. not saying i could advise you on your divorce or go work for a corporation tomorrow as an attorney but i know what constitutes the defense of insanity.

As I conceded a few pages back, our federal laws regarding the insanity defense changed back in the 80's. Before that I would be right. Now not so much.

It's pretty complicated how federal and state criminal law works here. I don't think any of us have enough of a legal background to understand the nuances of Norwegian criminal law..

That said, I think my more broad interpretation of criminal insanity is preferable to the more narrow U.S. federal guidelines.

2012-04-11 20:24:11

#5657

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7166

Macbeth wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yet again macbeth isn't listening to people with legal educations because oh-he's-been-in-a-psych ward.
A few prelaw classes count as a legal education and cover the entire span of criminal and civil law.

No such thing as "Pre-Law" in a British tertiary system. as you can get a bachelor of Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Laws

So yeah Uzique was actually taking real law classes, not this shitty pre-law shit you americans have.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2012-04-11 20:25:54

#5658

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5709|foggy bottom

suck my dick

Tu Stultus Es

2012-04-11 20:28:53

#5659

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7166

eleven bravo wrote:
suck my dick

you got those MUN bitches to do that for you

2012-04-11 20:29:19

#5660

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6921

Macbeth wrote:
Uzique wrote:
Macbeth wrote:

A few prelaw classes count as a legal education and cover the entire span of criminal and civil law.
i did 2 years of pretty heavy law. i had an interest in it. one thing for sure that you know is european definitions of criminal defenses - especially for homicide. insanity isn't one i'd forget. not saying i could advise you on your divorce or go work for a corporation tomorrow as an attorney but i know what constitutes the defense of insanity.
As I conceded a few pages back, our federal laws regarding the insanity defense changed back in the 80's. Before that I would be right. Now not so much.

It's pretty complicated how federal and state criminal law works here. I don't think any of us have enough of a legal background to understand the nuances of Norwegian criminal law..

That said, I think my more broad interpretation of criminal insanity is preferable to the more narrow U.S. federal guidelines.

why is it preferable? this guy killed like 70+ people, most of which were kids. i think it's preferable that the dude is not declared insane so he can spend the rest of his life in a cushty mental hospital.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2012-04-11 20:31:55

#5661

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|6036

Mental hospitals are not cushy. Criminal mental hospitals are still prisons. I think putting someone who is in need of intense mental health care in a standard prison is on the cruel side.

2012-04-11 20:32:38

#5662

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5709|foggy bottom

Cybargs wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
suck my dick
you got those MUN bitches to do that for you

same texts for an L1, same course work, same exercises, same library. taught by phd/jd's.

Tu Stultus Es

2012-04-11 20:33:57

#5663

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|6036

Hell, you think he is crazy now, send him into a max security prison and see where he ends up mentally. He will never end up in a state of mind to comprehend his actions.

2012-04-11 20:34:16

#5664

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6921

Macbeth wrote:
Mental hospitals are not cushy. Criminal mental hospitals are still prisons. I think putting someone who is in need of intense mental health care in a standard prison is on the cruel side.

you haven't been to scandinavia.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2012-04-12 02:20:40

#5665

rdx-fx: ...; +955|7041

To me, a prison system exists to separate the threats to society from the productive members of society.

You get caught with a bag of weed? Meh.. Pay your fine, have a nice day. Just like a speeding ticket.
Petty offenses that don't harm or threaten others should be handled by deterrent fines.

You rob a store and threaten to kill someone with a firearm in the process?
Yeah.. Prison.

Rape, murder, or such - prison.

Don't care what derangement or excuse someone has, if they are a violent threat to society, put them away.

Primary focus of a prison shouldn't be rehabilitation, or punishment. It should be to protect society from the broken, damaged, and criminally violent.
If, as a secondary effort, they want to try and rehabilitate.. Fine.
But, until they can prove they are no longer a threat, keep them in prison.

We just had a drunk driver here, on his Nth DUI, crash into oncoming traffic.
Drunk driver is fine.
A talented neurologist is in critical condition, his wife isn't much better.
A couple that played by the rules, lived a responsible life, contributed to society - wrecked by a useless idiot with no self control.
Because society didn't have the balls to put him away the previous times he recklessly endangered others...

What's next?
Make the school system coddle the kids that don't care, that are brain dead, or that are just mentally deficient.
And hold back the smart kids to the level of the dumbest kids.
So we don't hurt the dumb kids feelings, we make the smart kids miserable.
Oh... Right... We already do that!
"No Child Left Behind" bullshit. It's really "every child held back"

Coddle the broken, abuse the capable.
And we wonder why we're in decline as a country...

/end rant

2012-04-12 02:53:35

#5666

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,824|6556|eXtreme to the maX

I disagree

Deal with stuff by fines? Thats a charter for the rich to commit as many 'minor' crimes as they like - unless its proportional to salary in which case the system punishes the hardworking and benefits the slackers.

The likelihood of getting caught and then properly punished is what deters people, nailing them for minor infringements early on will deter them from crime in the future - a slap on the wrist or a small fine they don't typically pay will make getting caught and being punished seem like a joke - to be repeated for lulz.

Proper deterrents - real community work, loss of privileges, prison - and a real likelihood of getting caught are whats needed.

Fuck Israel

2012-04-12 03:33:18

#5667

rdx-fx: ...; +955|7041

If the band wants to smoke a trash bag full of weed after their sold-out concert, I don't really care if that's the 100th time they've paid a fine.

First time a meth head threatens someone to get a high, though, throw him in a hole.

Protect society from harm, first.
Rehabilitate the truly dangerous criminals, a distant second.

And, regarding the "above the law" rich..
Someone like Bernie Madoff, that willfully destroyed so many people's lives.. Same hole as the strung out meth head

It's not about revenge, nor justice, nor rehab, nor fairness.
It's about protecting the peaceful productive members of society from predation.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2012-04-12 03:36:13)

2012-04-12 03:40:20

#5668

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,824|6556|eXtreme to the maX

Laws should be enforced or not, either legalise it or decriminalise it, or enforce the law.

Giving kids the message that its OK to break the law when they feel like it is what leads eventually to angry crackheads robbing people.

Better to nip it in the bud than lock up substance abusing grown-up toddlers after they've already killed people.
The same with kids, spare the rod spoil the child.

Fuck Israel

2012-04-12 04:15:57

#5669

rdx-fx: ...; +955|7041

There should be fines for fixable mistakes, prison for being a danger to society.

No need to imprison people who aren't a threat to society.

2012-04-12 05:34:10

#5670

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7125|Canberra, AUS

speaking of which, can someone explain what the no child left behind policy really is? i've heard about it a fair few times, read about it a bit and disliked almost everything i heard. but i still don't know enough to feel comfortable making a judgement on it.

Last edited by Spark (2012-04-12 05:34:19)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2012-04-12 05:38:24

#5671

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5808|London, England

Bush's plan to force teacher accountability. Teachers and school districts are graded based on how their students perform on standardized tests. Schools that do not improve face budget cuts and/or closure. This has led teachers to teach directly to what is on the test rather than having the leeway to deviate into areas the teacher may find interesting, but are off beam (DT reference there).

Semi-ok idea if you believe that teachers are heroic human beings that can will students to pay attention in class and do homework, except they're not

edit - however, take the criticism you read with a grain of salt. teachers bitch about everything.

Last edited by Jay (2012-04-12 05:43:34)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-04-12 05:43:36

#5672

rdx-fx: ...; +955|7041

"Bush plan for education"

That should adequately explain it for the majority of the non-US readers here

2012-04-12 05:46:35

#5673

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|7182|St. Andrews / Oslo

The whole standardized test thing is complete crap.

It was such a big thing in the school I went to in the US, which resulted in an extremely narrow education more about solving problems on the upcoming test than on, you know, learning. There was never any pleasure in the teaching/learning experience - all we did was learn how to best answer test-styled problems to get a maximum score.

It was ridiculous, worst system I've ever been under.

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png

2012-04-12 05:46:40

#5674

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,824|6556|eXtreme to the maX

NCLB expanded the federal role in public education through annual testing, annual academic progress, report cards, teacher qualifications, and funding changes.

GOP small govt wins every time.

Fuck Israel

2012-04-12 05:48:31

#5675

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5808|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
NCLB expanded the federal role in public education through annual testing, annual academic progress, report cards, teacher qualifications, and funding changes.
GOP small govt wins every time.

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone that actually likes NCLB. Dunno who you're arguing with.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

BF2S Forums DAST Chat

Spark wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

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