Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|6961|FUCK UBISOFT

Jay wrote:

Miggle wrote:

Jay wrote:

I understand that it's necessary to test people on the things they've read,
how do you figure?
How would you determine whether someone read the material or not if you didn't test them in some way?
why do you need to?
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Miggle wrote:

Jay wrote:

Miggle wrote:


how do you figure?
How would you determine whether someone read the material or not if you didn't test them in some way?
why do you need to?
In order to give people grades? To make sure your time as the professor isn't wasted? I dunno, why do they give tests in any subject?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|6961|FUCK UBISOFT

Jay wrote:

Miggle wrote:

Jay wrote:


How would you determine whether someone read the material or not if you didn't test them in some way?
why do you need to?
In order to give people grades? To make sure your time as the professor isn't wasted? I dunno, why do they give tests in any subject?
well why do you need to give people grades?
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Miggle wrote:

Jay wrote:

Miggle wrote:


why do you need to?
In order to give people grades? To make sure your time as the professor isn't wasted? I dunno, why do they give tests in any subject?
well why do you need to give people grades?
I dunno. Why do you need to breathe?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Miggle
FUCK UBISOFT
+1,411|6961|FUCK UBISOFT

so being graded is as necessary as breathing?
https://i.imgur.com/86fodNE.png
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
No, that was a personal question. Why do you need to breathe?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689
Jay do you want to read an excerpt of one of my papers? I genuinely think you don't have a clue what proper humanities/arts departments get up to, nor what their degrees involve. You've taken a few minor elective classes and think everyone is doing close-reading and paraphrasing pop-psychology Freudianism. It's painful to read how in the dark you are.

I think a major problem is with the American education system, again. Your degree structure encourages this superficial engagement that really equips you with shit when it comes to understanding the 'breadth' of college-level enquiry. You just leave with this tokenistic impression that only serves to further cement your science-centric view that all other subjects are easy ("I got an A on an English paper that one time I took a course so the entire degree must be easy - fuck yeah, science!"). If anyone here had experience in a top US college taking English or somesuch then I'd probably listen to them. But, let's face it, right now it's a bunch of science-guys that are exclusively into science, and none of them have been exposed to an English/History/Humanities course in a real academic environment. Ergo: you're all shooting in the dark, and missing.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-05 19:07:48)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
I'm basing most of my opinion on the textbooks used in classes. Every English class I've taken, high school and college, involved a Norton's Anthology of some sort. When I think of English academic research I think of the people that took years out of their lives to write the damn footnotes for every poem/story/excerpt, and that seemed to make all my professors/teachers giddy with delight because they felt it gave them some special insight into the piece. Unless it was explained by the author (and that isn't even trustworthy), everything is an interpretation. Why do I need someone elses interpretation when I can read the work myself and come to my own conclusions? That's what annoyed me. With some teachers/professors, god help you if your opinion deviated from their own opinion on the work, or whatever was written in the teachers edition of the text.

These are my own issues and experiences, obviously, but I don't think I'm unique at all.

Last edited by Jay (2012-04-05 19:13:11)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689
Again, sounds like you took some shitty classes at a shitty school. I've used an anthology about 3 times in 4 years of study, and that's when I was too broke to buy the book. We're not working from a 'textbook' each week doing "close readings" of a selected poem in class. That's high-school. "So what does this poem mean?". High-school. "So what does the author mean by the use of this metaphor?" High-school. If you think the only level of English study higher than simply discussing 'what happens in a text / what the characters are like / what the author means' is the part where people fill-out footnotes and find obscure facts... lol. I'm literally facepalming right now.

By the way go read Finnegan's Wake and then give me your personal interpretation. I'm sure it'll be legit.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-05 19:13:13)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
I am talking about high school for the most part Uzique. We didn't have nearly enough time in a single semester in college to delve into stuff like that. College was mostly: read this, come to class with an opinion on the work, discuss the work. I liked that. High school is what turned me off and made me so adamantly opposed.

Last edited by Jay (2012-04-05 19:15:21)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689
I think the difference here is like night/day. If anyone here has been on an English course at a high-ranking US college, feel free to tell me about your experiences. Bearing in mind that the concensus in the UK is already that US degree study is easy and lacking rigour, I'm sure you'll at least be able to back me up with my experiences. Comparing community college level Humanities classes and extrapolating that to some generic 'this must be what it's like for all people studying this, everywhere' is really dumb. It's going nowhere.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6911
Yeah, most English or lit classes deal with works of literature (prose, poem, drama, etc.), not textbooks.

It's sort of the professor's job to be the textbook.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2012-04-05 19:16:43)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
Why are you arguing with everyone if you're going to dismiss their opinions as invalid? Why have you wasted days of your life getting to this point?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6325|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique wrote:

Oh and furthermore, would anyone have acted on anything you did for your theoretical science PhD?
They acted on my B.Eng thesis http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/mechatronicsinmedicine and my MSc thesis was industry funded and went straight into use so I'm guessing yes.
I'm guessing the answer is 'no'.
Keep guessing.
Fuck Israel
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6911
Why are boobs good? Why are rainbows nice?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Superior Mind wrote:

Yeah, most English or lit classes deal with works of literature (prose, poem, drama, etc.), not textbooks.

It's sort of the professor's job to be the textbook.
Do you not understand what an anthology is?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689

Jay wrote:

I am talking about high school for the most part Uzique. We didn't have nearly enough time in a single semester in college to delve into stuff like that. College was mostly: read this, come to class with an opinion on the work, discuss the work. I liked that. High school is what turned me off and made me so adamantly opposed.
Well I disliked Maths in school because every lesson we just got this dumb textbook out and did exercises for 2 hours. It was dumb, and easy. So unimaginative. Doing the same thing over and over for 30 minutes at a time. Getting it marked. Tick tick tick. Stupid stupid stupid. Maths in school was so dumb. I can't believe anyone would take that at college. It must just be working from textbooks all the time with the answers supplied in the back and revising and doing repetitive exercises over and over for exams. Dumb dumb dumb. Oh and not to mention all the pop-philosophy. Sheesh. Why would I want to do that at college when I can just use a calculator?

... See what your reasoning is like? Raising an eyebrow at English departments at proper academic institutions because of your experience of high-school English? Really? That's like me saying all those Maths guys at MIT are dumb, devoting 4 years of their lives to learning some bullshit by rote from a textbook.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6893|Canberra, AUS

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Oh and furthermore, would anyone have acted on anything you did for your theoretical science PhD?
They acted on my B.Eng thesis http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/mechatronicsinmedicine and my MSc thesis was industry funded and went straight into use so I'm guessing yes.
I'm guessing the answer is 'no'.
Keep guessing.
I highly doubt that was theoretical science in the proper sense that you did, then.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6911

Jay wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

Yeah, most English or lit classes deal with works of literature (prose, poem, drama, etc.), not textbooks.

It's sort of the professor's job to be the textbook.
Do you not understand what an anthology is?
Oh, yeah.

Well, still, didn't use those either.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Oh and furthermore, would anyone have acted on anything you did for your theoretical science PhD?
They acted on my B.Eng thesis http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/mechatronicsinmedicine and my MSc thesis was industry funded and went straight into use so I'm guessing yes.
I'm guessing the answer is 'no'.
Keep guessing.
So were you even doing a PhD in theoretical physics? Doesn't sound like it. Engineering thesis leading to work in industry. Doesn't sound like you're even talking about the same sort of academic funding as we're talking about. Physics and Maths PhD students don't get 'funded' by industry or workplace. They get funded by the central academic funding body. Which is what I was curious about... because I didn't think you got offered funding by them. Turns out you're talking about Engineering and thus have been completely missing the point of our discussion about academia altogether. Research in abstract/theoretical sciences is just as esoteric and unhelpful to everyday society as humanities research, believe me.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689

Spark wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Oh and furthermore, would anyone have acted on anything you did for your theoretical science PhD?
They acted on my B.Eng thesis http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/mechatronicsinmedicine and my MSc thesis was industry funded and went straight into use so I'm guessing yes.
I'm guessing the answer is 'no'.
Keep guessing.
I highly doubt that was theoretical science in the proper sense that you did, then.
I know right. Yet again here we are... 3 pages later and ding ding ding! Dilbert isn't even in the same discussion as us. Just using the opportunity to have the usual whine at students that don't take Engineering degrees.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

I am talking about high school for the most part Uzique. We didn't have nearly enough time in a single semester in college to delve into stuff like that. College was mostly: read this, come to class with an opinion on the work, discuss the work. I liked that. High school is what turned me off and made me so adamantly opposed.
Well I disliked Maths in school because every lesson we just got this dumb textbook out and did exercises for 2 hours. It was dumb, and easy. So unimaginative. Doing the same thing over and over for 30 minutes at a time. Getting it marked. Tick tick tick. Stupid stupid stupid. Maths in school was so dumb. I can't believe anyone would take that at college. It must just be working from textbooks all the time with the answers supplied in the back and revising and doing repetitive exercises over and over for exams. Dumb dumb dumb. Oh and not to mention all the pop-philosophy. Sheesh. Why would I want to do that at college when I can just use a calculator?

... See what your reasoning is like? Raising an eyebrow at English departments at proper academic institutions because of your experience of high-school English? Really? That's like me saying all those Maths guys at MIT are dumb, devoting 4 years of their lives to learning some bullshit by rote from a textbook.
I know you're mocking me, but I hated math in high school for the same reasons. I didn't see the point.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689
So you acknowledge that there's a huge gulf between high-school level and serious academic (read: decent college, not some US shit-pile) study, then? That's great. Looks like we've finally buried the "I can't see why English is worthy" thing once and for all then.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
Whatevs
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6689
I feel like we've made some real progress today. Some moment of illumination. Just remember! All those english, psychology, philosophy, politics, history, classics etc. majors are also diving into an area of study that has gained immense depths since high-school level engagement. There may even be people out there taking a philosophy, economics or politics degree that are reading Hayek! But to a deeper level than you! Transcending the pop! The world is a crazy place.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/

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