BF2S Forums Negotiations have begun to have a referendum on Scottish independence

P.S. States dont have sports teams either.  We have city teams.  Also the vast majority of elected officials, local and national, are elected from constituencies that are very very arbritrary as well.  Also, size of the states is not a very good argument.

eleven bravo wrote:

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

states are much closer to your counties than your nations

Disagree.

We dont have elected officials to represent counties

We dont really have county laws (other than differing fines for dog poop and the like)

A county has no real autonomy at all, people do not see themselves as coming from a county anymore than from a town or village.

Please expand..

the only people who would argue that US states have a high degree of autonomy would be libertarians and people who want the south to rise again.  thankfully that issue was settled by the civil war.  reality does not agree with those people.  youre view of the unted states is a kin to a confederation.  it was tried, it didnt last.  states are closer to your counties (i suppose some nations in the eu have different ways of spreading political power internally) than your nations.  alabama is not equal to the netherlands.  not by a long long shot

So you're saying that there is no difference between the laws in Oklahoma and the laws in California? You, who live in the most autonomous of all states, should surely be able to see that there are rather big differences. Yes, there is a lot of overlap because of federal programs, but there is a vast gulf between the laws in my state and the laws in Texas. Between unions, and regulations, and ideas about taxation, it's almost like living in a different country.

You see a strong federal government because you want to see a strong federal government. It's trending that way, but it's not nearly as powerful as you think, or want it to be.

i disagree with you jay.  lets leave it at that.  debates with you tend to end in personal jabs. from both of us.  Ill leave it at that because i honestly cant think of writing anything else without knowing youll be offended

and the commerce clause expands it...

eleven bravo wrote:

federal law trumps state law.  you shoul know that.  once an issue or controversy reaches the supreme court and gets decided it is the law of the land.

Same with the EU. EU law is supreme ad that's why there's such a big fuss with the soveriegnty in Europe.

the eu's a confederation.  they may share some of the same laws and responsibilities for one another but they still retain their own autonomy.  the united states is not and the individual states do not.

eleven bravo wrote:

so the militaries of the nations of the eu are in the EU Army?  The president of the EU has more power than the heads of state of the EU nations?UK uses the euro?  etc etc etc

No, but it's trending that way quickly.

Jay wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

so the militaries of the nations of the eu are in the EU Army?  The president of the EU has more power than the heads of state of the EU nations?UK uses the euro?  etc etc etc

No, but it's trending that way quickly.

50 bucks says the EU will dissolve within our lifetimes

eleven bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

so the militaries of the nations of the eu are in the EU Army?  The president of the EU has more power than the heads of state of the EU nations?UK uses the euro?  etc etc etc

No, but it's trending that way quickly.

50 bucks says the EU will dissolve within our lifetimes

I'd take that bet. With the Lisbon Treaty, there's too much power involved now. The parliamentary leaders aren't ever going to give that power up without a 'civil war'. The only way it dissolves is by force, and none of the EU countries has a strong enough military to force dissolution.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

thats a common argument but too many instances in american history have proven that wrong.  ANYTHING (almost) could be chalked under interstate commerce and EVERYTHING (almost) has

That doesn't make it right. The commerce clause was meant to prohibit tariffs between states. That's pretty much it.

Honestly, I don't understand why people would want a strong federal government in the first place. The higher up the pyramid you go, the further you as an individual are from power and the less you matter. I prefer a stronger state government because I'm one of 18,000,000 rather than one of 330,000,000.

no ones saying they want it that way...it's just the reality of the situation

Then you've never read the columnists at the New York Times

Other than diplomacy, trade, military and having a supreme court, I can't think of much that improves with centralization.

I'm not sure what to make of Scottish independance.  What will happen to the commonwealth in that case?