Pages: 1 2

 

2012-01-31 16:34:57
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6662|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

there also comes a point where you figure that all this effort must have a certain amount of valid reasoning.
You haven't worked with the government very much, have you?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2012-02-01 10:34:58
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6656|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

there also comes a point where you figure that all this effort must have a certain amount of valid reasoning.
You haven't worked with the government very much, have you?
I guess not, but if you're implying that our foreign policy really is as greed and paranoia-oriented as many believe, then Ron Paul's non-interventionism sounds like a pretty good idea.
2012-02-01 22:09:12
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6852|132 and Bush

Later, I taught debating and argumentation in New York; and once, I am ashamed to admit, I planned to write a book on the subject. Since then, I have listened to, engaged in, and watched the effect of thousands of arguments. As a result of all this, I have come to the conclusion that there is only one way under high heaven to get the best of an argument - and that is to avoid it . Avoid it as you would avoid rattlesnakes and earthquakes.

Nine times out of ten, an argument ends with each of the contestants more firmly convinced than ever that he is absolutely right. You can't win an argument. You can't because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is non compos mentis. Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. And - A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1009 … or_Success
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2012-02-02 11:28:15
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6883|949

The argument may end with that feeling, but in my own experience with debating ive found that I tend to think about both my own and the opposing stance long after the debate is done and definitely have changed my opinion on more than one occasion as a result. No one wants to admit they are wrong, especially in the heat of the moment, so it makes sense. That being said, I think the statement you highlighted is a bit misleading.
2012-02-02 12:02:30
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5609|London, England
"The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."
-John Stuart Mill
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-02-02 17:53:51
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6662|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

there also comes a point where you figure that all this effort must have a certain amount of valid reasoning.
You haven't worked with the government very much, have you?
I guess not, but if you're implying that our foreign policy really is as greed and paranoia-oriented as many believe, then Ron Paul's non-interventionism sounds like a pretty good idea.
I was referring to your flawed belief that there is much--if any--"valid reasoning" in the govt. Most of the policy decisions are based on political concerns, not reality. Thus why so much of our policy blows.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2012-02-03 06:47:08
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6656|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:


You haven't worked with the government very much, have you?
I guess not, but if you're implying that our foreign policy really is as greed and paranoia-oriented as many believe, then Ron Paul's non-interventionism sounds like a pretty good idea.
I was referring to your flawed belief that there is much--if any--"valid reasoning" in the govt. Most of the policy decisions are based on political concerns, not reality. Thus why so much of our policy blows.
Well again, it sounds like much smaller government is the best idea.

If our government is incapable of dealing with reality, then we should limit it as much as possible, including its military ventures.

Minarchy might really be our only hope soon.
2012-02-03 10:42:01
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6662|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


I guess not, but if you're implying that our foreign policy really is as greed and paranoia-oriented as many believe, then Ron Paul's non-interventionism sounds like a pretty good idea.
I was referring to your flawed belief that there is much--if any--"valid reasoning" in the govt. Most of the policy decisions are based on political concerns, not reality. Thus why so much of our policy blows.
Well again, it sounds like much smaller government is the best idea.

If our government is incapable of dealing with reality, then we should limit it as much as possible, including its military ventures.

Minarchy might really be our only hope soon.
Smaller government, you say? You're clearly a racist, right-wing gun nut!
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2012-02-03 10:49:06
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5836

Turquoise wrote:

Minarchy might really be our only hope soon.
Because the sky is falling
2012-02-03 11:45:37
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6656|North Carolina

Macbeth wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Minarchy might really be our only hope soon.
Because the sky is falling
I guess that depends on who you ask.

My remark was simply in response to what FEOS is saying.

If he's wrong or exaggerating, then minarchy isn't the answer.

Personally, I think there's some truth to the government being pretty corrupt and politically obsessed, but on the other hand, I don't believe it's so bad that there is no logical reasoning involved.
2012-02-03 13:17:09
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6965|US

Turquoise wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Minarchy might really be our only hope soon.
Because the sky is falling
I guess that depends on who you ask.

My remark was simply in response to what FEOS is saying.

If he's wrong or exaggerating, then minarchy isn't the answer.

Personally, I think there's some truth to the government being pretty corrupt and politically obsessed, but on the other hand, I don't believe it's so bad that there is no logical reasoning involved.
I don't think it is so much that logical reasoning is not involved, just that perceived personal/group interests often outweigh overall long-term benefits in decision making.  Why do you think politicians "flip-flopping" is seen as so terrible?  It is because people don't like seeing them abandon the "correct" solution for a slight increase in popularity.
2012-02-03 13:25:36
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6656|North Carolina

RAIMIUS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


Because the sky is falling
I guess that depends on who you ask.

My remark was simply in response to what FEOS is saying.

If he's wrong or exaggerating, then minarchy isn't the answer.

Personally, I think there's some truth to the government being pretty corrupt and politically obsessed, but on the other hand, I don't believe it's so bad that there is no logical reasoning involved.
I don't think it is so much that logical reasoning is not involved, just that perceived personal/group interests often outweigh overall long-term benefits in decision making.  Why do you think politicians "flip-flopping" is seen as so terrible?  It is because people don't like seeing them abandon the "correct" solution for a slight increase in popularity.
Changing your mind is all about context though.  Of course, I've gotten plenty of shit for changing my view on something, and I'm not even running for office.
2012-02-04 11:45:16
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6965|US

Turquoise wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


I guess that depends on who you ask.

My remark was simply in response to what FEOS is saying.

If he's wrong or exaggerating, then minarchy isn't the answer.

Personally, I think there's some truth to the government being pretty corrupt and politically obsessed, but on the other hand, I don't believe it's so bad that there is no logical reasoning involved.
I don't think it is so much that logical reasoning is not involved, just that perceived personal/group interests often outweigh overall long-term benefits in decision making.  Why do you think politicians "flip-flopping" is seen as so terrible?  It is because people don't like seeing them abandon the "correct" solution for a slight increase in popularity.
Changing your mind is all about context though.  Of course, I've gotten plenty of shit for changing my view on something, and I'm not even running for office.
Don't get me wrong.  Sometimes it is a valid change in opinion, due to seeing new facts or reasoning.

 

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