eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5501|foggy bottom

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

i knew about ron pauls racist newsletter that he said he didnt right and that he supposedly dissavows. however, i havent heard about this letter he wrote to grab subscriptions for that news letter.
http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com/11/1 … ation2.pdf
He explained it as him not writing it and not ever reading his own letter. In that case it throws into question his level of competency. Not knowing what your people are writing under your name doesn't seem responsible. Either way it's bad.

Needless to say I am enjoying this immensely. Screw Paul.
Fuck yeah! Freedom sucks! Bomb all brown people!
ok lowing
Tu Stultus Es
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England
His economic plan is balancing the federal budget. No, I don't agree with his gold standard rhetoric, but I do find his 'end the fed' sentiment appealing from an ideological standpoint. None of those points matter though because the executive branch does not control budgeting, and can not abolish the Federal Reserve system.

His national security policy is exactly the step forward into the modern age that we need. We have no need for a large standing army, and we have no need to police the world. I know you like to view members of the military as expendable chess pieces though, so obviously this doesn't appeal to you.

On social issues he is better than the other republicans, because while he may share some of their beliefs, he wouldn't ram it down everyones throat at the federal level like Gingrich has done in the past with things like DOMA.

He's the best of the bunch, he's just completely at odds with neo-cons and progressives because both ultimately want totalitarian governments forcing people to obey.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5827

GOP presidential candidate Rep. Ron Paul will unveil his economic plan Monday afternoon, calling for a lower corporate tax rate, cutting spending by $1 trillion during his first year in office and eliminating five cabinet-level agencies, including the Education Department, according to excerpts released to Washington Wire.

Mr. Paul’s “Restore America” plan calls for a drastically reduced federal government to help spur American business — a familiar theme for the Texas Republican and many of the GOP White House hopefuls. But unlike some of his Republican rivals who have released economic plans, the libertarian congressman mostly avoids the weeds of tax and trade policy, according to excerpts.

But Mr. Paul does get specific when he calls for a 10% reduction in the federal work force
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/10/1 … dents-pay/
When it comes to Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs, Mr. Paul wants a system that “honors our promise to our seniors and veterans, while allowing young workers to opt out.”
Cutting the U.S. budget by 1 trillion (our budget is 3.4 trillion at this point) and getting rid of 10% of the Federal workforce would disrupt the already fragile U.S. economy. The world economy is on a touch and go basis right now. The U.S. is too slowly recovering, Europe is teetering, and the Chinese are overheating. Reducing our budget by a third in one year will crash everything. It's too quick a change and too much of a change period. It would destroy the world economy again.
His national security policy is exactly the step forward into the modern age that we need. We have no need for a large standing army, and we have no need to police the world. I know you like to view members of the military as expendable chess pieces though, so obviously this doesn't appeal to you.
U.S. military hegemony has been one of the greatest things to happen to humanity. The world economy has grown greatly since then. Trade and cultural barriers have been torn down across the globe. Two or multiple poles of power constantly competing against each other because the U.S. pulled back from its responsibility of keeping global stability would be a massive step backwards. Trade wars that occur in the market place would turn into trade wars between states. Resource rich politically undeveloped places would suddenly become much more important not only regionally but also on a national scale. Foreign trade and investment would dry up overnight. Underdeveloped places with little resources would be devastated. etc. That's a massive step backwards from free trade guarantee by military force.

When I think of genuine social progress the U.S. has made over the entire course of its existence it has always come from the Federal government. If it weren't for the Fed god knows what the South would look like... But if you want your arbitrary power in the hands of local leaders that's cool and all
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6653|'Murka

Ron Paul's national security policy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the neo-cons & progressives. Massive swings of the pendulum aren't a good idea. There are aspects of both that should be incorporated.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Ron Paul's national security policy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the neo-cons & progressives. Massive swings of the pendulum aren't a good idea. There are aspects of both that should be incorporated.
When the neo-cons and progressives are both aligned against you, you're on the right track.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5501|foggy bottom
both on the same side on the war against child molestation
Tu Stultus Es
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

both on the same side on the war against child molestation
You can't be that dumb.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5827

You didn't respond back to me
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6653|'Murka

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Ron Paul's national security policy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the neo-cons & progressives. Massive swings of the pendulum aren't a good idea. There are aspects of both that should be incorporated.
When the neo-cons and progressives are both aligned against you, you're on the right track.
Not necessarily. Extremism in any form isn't helpful.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5501|foggy bottom

Jay wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

both on the same side on the war against child molestation
You can't be that dumb.
lol.  i didnt know you were so up to date on the war against child molestation
Tu Stultus Es
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Ron Paul's national security policy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the neo-cons & progressives. Massive swings of the pendulum aren't a good idea. There are aspects of both that should be incorporated.
When the neo-cons and progressives are both aligned against you, you're on the right track.
Not necessarily. Extremism in any form isn't helpful.
He's not an extremist. Having a military for defense only is entirely rational. Now, wanting to abolish the military, that would be an extremist stance.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5827

Macbeth wrote:

You didn't respond back to me
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You didn't respond back to me
Yes I did, indirectly.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6653|'Murka

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:


When the neo-cons and progressives are both aligned against you, you're on the right track.
Not necessarily. Extremism in any form isn't helpful.
He's not an extremist. Having a military for defense only is entirely rational. Now, wanting to abolish the military, that would be an extremist stance.
He is the other extreme from the opposition. Going from one extreme to the other is the problem.

And a defensive-only military is untenable for a nation like the US. Or UK. Or any other major power. Having a "defense first" policy is entirely rational and right, however.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Not necessarily. Extremism in any form isn't helpful.
He's not an extremist. Having a military for defense only is entirely rational. Now, wanting to abolish the military, that would be an extremist stance.
He is the other extreme from the opposition. Going from one extreme to the other is the problem.

And a defensive-only military is untenable for a nation like the US. Or UK. Or any other major power. Having a "defense first" policy is entirely rational and right, however.
Which can be accomplished by moving about a million men and women into the reserves.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6653|'Murka

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:


He's not an extremist. Having a military for defense only is entirely rational. Now, wanting to abolish the military, that would be an extremist stance.
He is the other extreme from the opposition. Going from one extreme to the other is the problem.

And a defensive-only military is untenable for a nation like the US. Or UK. Or any other major power. Having a "defense first" policy is entirely rational and right, however.
Which can be accomplished by moving about a million men and women into the reserves.
Certainly. Just read a paper last night regarding options for re-working our ground forces to better posture them for the current situation, rather than the Cold War + GWOT. It focused on the reserve for homeland defense and major mobilization and active duty for SOF/CT/IW type stuff. Made sense on the surface.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:

He is the other extreme from the opposition. Going from one extreme to the other is the problem.

And a defensive-only military is untenable for a nation like the US. Or UK. Or any other major power. Having a "defense first" policy is entirely rational and right, however.
Which can be accomplished by moving about a million men and women into the reserves.
Certainly. Just read a paper last night regarding options for re-working our ground forces to better posture them for the current situation, rather than the Cold War + GWOT. It focused on the reserve for homeland defense and major mobilization and active duty for SOF/CT/IW type stuff. Made sense on the surface.
That's pretty much all I've ever advocated. Keep the people on active duty that need to be at work full time: guys with a 365 day/yr training schedule like SF. There's no need to have divisions of tankers sitting around sucking up a paycheck for a weekly PMCS and busy work.

I didn't mind my deployment, my job had a purpose to a small extent (I've gone over that elsewhere). I hated being in the peacetime military. After a year of monotony I got completely fed up with it. It's such a gigantic waste of national resources to pay people full time wages for a job that can competently be performed by a weekend warrior.

edit - it has the added benefit of making it more difficult politically for politicians to deploy troops overseas. There's always a hubbub when reservists are called up.

Last edited by Jay (2011-12-23 17:03:18)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5827

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You didn't respond back to me
Yes I did, indirectly.
You didn't answer the economic part or the social part.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7013|PNW

eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5501|foggy bottom
same thing happened in west covina a couple of years ago
Tu Stultus Es
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7013|PNW

And again...drain the accounts of people living on fixed incomes...for charity! wtg, "anonymous." Real Robin-Hooding there.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5827

I don't care much for HuffingtonPost but when they amass as much crap on Ron Paul I suddenly start to like them
"I didn’t write them," he told CNN, when asked about the newsletter's racist descriptions of urban society and paranoid conspiracy theories about federal government. "I disavow them. That's it."

But since Paul spoke to CNN, a number of old videos have surfaced showing him touting the newsletters that were being put out under his name. Paul's defenders have noted that even in those video clips, he does not claim authorship, which is true. Back when the issue first arose, however, he was willing to acknowledge that the words were his -- the only complaints he made were about context.

The Huffington Post went through archived newspaper clips from Paul's '96 congressional campaign against Lefty Morris and unearthed several new instances of Paul or his campaign pleading for a more sympathetic understanding of what he wrote.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/2 … 69990.html    : Newspaper quotes
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/2 … 69886.html    : Video
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England
Who gives a fuck?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5827

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


Yes I did, indirectly.
You didn't answer the economic part or the social part.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Cutting the U.S. budget by 1 trillion (our budget is 3.4 trillion at this point) and getting rid of 10% of the Federal workforce would disrupt the already fragile U.S. economy. The world economy is on a touch and go basis right now. The U.S. is too slowly recovering, Europe is teetering, and the Chinese are overheating. Reducing our budget by a third in one year will crash everything. It's too quick a change and too much of a change period. It would destroy the world economy again.
It has to be done at some point. The current level of spending is unsustainable. Does it matter whether it happens now or in five years? Kind of, because in five years the economy might be humming again and the urgency will be lost. It will not crash the economy, it will actually improve the economy. The government can not create jobs, because the government, by law, can not create anything of value. So when a politician creates an agency in order to create jobs, all he's doing is pulling money out of the economy at large and redirecting it. Due to the inefficiency of the government and the overpowered federal unions, it's not even a 1:1 exchange (one government job created at the expense of one civilian job), but more like 1.5 civilian jobs destroyed for every one government job.

Macbeth wrote:

U.S. military hegemony has been one of the greatest things to happen to humanity. The world economy has grown greatly since then. Trade and cultural barriers have been torn down across the globe. Two or multiple poles of power constantly competing against each other because the U.S. pulled back from its responsibility of keeping global stability would be a massive step backwards. Trade wars that occur in the market place would turn into trade wars between states. Resource rich politically undeveloped places would suddenly become much more important not only regionally but also on a national scale. Foreign trade and investment would dry up overnight. Underdeveloped places with little resources would be devastated. etc. That's a massive step backwards from free trade guarantee by military force.

When I think of genuine social progress the U.S. has made over the entire course of its existence it has always come from the Federal government. If it weren't for the Fed god knows what the South would look like... But if you want your arbitrary power in the hands of local leaders that's cool and all
The world economy would've grown even faster in a less stable world. Stability leads to complacency and stagnation, it's the fatal flaw in all conservative economic positions. You lessen the peaks and valleys, but you flatten out the curve as a whole. See: European economies.

Regardless, it's not our job to fight other peoples wars. It's not our job to police the world. You like a strong military and a lot of that has to do with the zero respect you have for those in uniform. You're more than willing to vote for others to die because you're a coward that will never be in personal danger.

Watching Bill O'Reilly is not doing you any favors. You have the views of a neo-con and you're far too young for that.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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